Retailer Fury At Marvel NYCC Panel

[Redjack]

I would say books like America Chavez selling ~10,000 copies/month (assuming no overship) is hurting revenues when better-selling books have been cancelled.

And truly popular characters like Spidey, etc selling in the 50,000 range or less are simply pathetic. They sold better AFTER the speculator bubble burst, and even during the Meltdown.

these are your opinions but, as i keep trying to get across to you, you are not the publisher. your arbitrary opinion of what "should" be happening or how much a given book "should" be selling is worthless. It has no value because it has no influence and is based on nothing but your own feelings.

I'm not defending that particular book, btw. I don't read it because I don't like it. I don't like Squirrel Girl. I don't like Deadpool or Gwenpool or Defenders or most of the X-Books or most of the Inhumans books. That doesn't mean any of these titles suffer in terms of quality in any way. It just means, currently, I don't feel pressed to purchase them because they're not reaching me. I do like SOME of the X books and SOME of the inhumans books and Unstoppable Wasp and Ms. Marvel, and Moon Girl and both Iron Man books, etc. And I buy them. because I like them. I'm not saying their "quality" is better than the books I don't buy. I say, because it's true, I LIKE them, So I buy them.

Your problem and that of your cronies is you can't stand that not everyone likes the same things as you and no one is paying attention to what you don't like. Welcome to being a comic book fan. That is always the case for all of us. And it always will be.

[Redjack]

...belligerent babble... then...
So not only are you not stating facts, you are freely admitting you refuse to be exposed to them in the first place.

What your little pocket pundits say or don't say doesn't qualify as fact. They are entirely opinion-based, by definition, having zero first-hand contact with any aspect of the actual business. No one is owed a hearing on their opinion and, I don't know how I can say this more plainly, "I do not care what they or you or anyone thinks when it comes to what I write or what I like to read."

Never have. Never will. The end.

[Jokerz79]

Prove it. I'm still waiting for you to prove the retailers are lying.



What "facts"? I can document the statements of the retailers. You don't document anything. You just call them "liars" without any evidence.



So not only are you not stating facts, you are freely admitting you refuse to be exposed to them in the first place.



In your opinion. Not supported by the facts.

Hey Phantomstranger You know what I did out of curiosity I looked up all the comic book stores I know of in my local area 5 stores in total. I went to their Facebook pages and Yelp reviews and guess what I learned about these racist, misogynistic, homophobic, cancers of the comics book industry. They all had good reviews like all good reviews about how nice, helpful, and welcoming they and their stores were. I know I know your thinking but it's all straight white men well not going to lie can't tell the race or sexuality of them but I could tell gender and each store had a few ladies giving glowing reviews go figure I know shocking. You know Phantomstranger I think we might not be getting the full picture I think some of these guys just might be nice decent men who love the comic industry and actually like making a living by sharing the industry with others. What do you think?

[Triniking1234]

Well, it may come as a surprise to you, but there are people like you, that by your own admission like to follow him even if he is someone that «used autism as an insult» and «called a transexual person a man in a wig», because «he likes what you like», and people that after similar statements wouldn't follow him even if «he liked totally everything they liked». It's called “ethics”.

And even if he wasn't, by my standards, a disgusting person, could you explain to me why should I follow someone that review comics that doesn't share my taste? It would not make any sense.

I wasn't asking you to follow him.

I noticed some people here are judging D&C by what they heard on the grapevine instead of taking a risk and doing their own investigation like Jokerz79 did.

Did you see skyvolt's response? All D&C does is roast non-white/female books and creators? Yeah, that's misinformation.

Yes he roasted Squirrel Girl and Ms. Marvel but he praised the Secret Empire tie-in for USAvengers with Toni Ho.
He only roasts Luke Cage and Riri Williams because he doesn't like how Bendis writes them.
He roasted G.I.Joe and the guy writing that is Caucasian.

And I can go on. I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with him though.

[Drops Of Venus]

It's hilarious how people like you two, always ready to cry «Marvel caters to the social crowd! Everyone knows people no the internet don't buy comics! They are doomed!» at the first occasion, when it suits them, go and make a u-turn, managing someway to keep a serious face, and state that a YouTube channel of haters that has 40k equates to 40k disenfranchised lost readers and Marvel should pay attention to it.

This might be the best post I've read in this whole thread. The truth is, internet can blow anyone's opinion out of proportion. Online fandom, with all its cliques and subsections will NEVER truly represent what the actual, vast majority of people IRL want. All we do here is speculate.

[rui no onna]

if the fans of these guys have already stopped buying the comics they hate, they have proven there aren't enough of them to hurt the company's revenue stream. They've already opted out and thus, don't matter anymore. Their, your, numbers are not sufficient to influence anything. You're not shareholders. You don't have any access to internal business decisions or editorial oversight, while the little hate clubs may be gratifying to their members, they don't actually matter to anyone outside the bubble.

Technically, some of us probably are, just not majority shareholders. Even then, Marvel Publishing is such a small portion of Disney's revenue that it probably doesn't even merit a mention during board meetings. Mere shareholders don't have access to internal company data.

[Redjack]

Technically, some of us probably are, just not majority shareholders. Even then, Marvel Publishing is such a small portion of Disney's revenue that it probably doesn't even merit a mention during board meetings. Mere shareholders don't have access to internal company data.

technically true but the vast majority of people don't play the stock market and, of the group that does, the number that both read marvel comics and are stockholders in the company is infinitesimally tiny.

I'll say MASS shareholders going forward.

[skyvolt2000]

I would say books like America Chavez selling ~10,000 copies/month (assuming no overship) is hurting revenues when better-selling books have been cancelled.

And truly popular characters like Spidey, etc selling in the 50,000 range or less are simply pathetic. They sold better AFTER the speculator bubble burst, and even during the Meltdown.

No that is called REALITY. That thing so many like D& C worshipers seem to ignore.

If I know a book will come out as a trade 6 months later and I have a limited budget-why would I buy those floppies?

If I know a book will hit a bin and be there in bulk-why would I buy that floppy at $3.99? Going by my store I would never buy a Batman, Spider-Man and other so-called top guys at cover price again with the way I saw them in bulk in that 25 cent bin.

Or I just wait till it hits the library or EBAY.

With so many ways to get that book-the comic store is not even in the conversation.



And how does Chavez hurt Disney's bottom line? She has 10K and Peter Parker has 50K-if MARVEL"S data that we don't have access to says America actually sells 7K out of 10K and Peter does 3K out of 50K. Logic says his book should be gone. Even if he does 45K out of 50K in sales. He still leaves more unsold copies than Chavez. He has more copies made than Chavez.

Also we have to take into consideration how many books are just over ordered because of who is on the COVER. Throw Bat Jesus on the cover and more copies get ordered no matter what. Even if that book doesn't sell. It will get extra copies ordered based on him.

Maybe Chavez reaches the folks Disney WANTS unlike say Antman & Vision. Maybe the demo she reaches is better than Vision & Antman. Maybe she reaches places where they don't. Maybe the person reading Chavez is more likely to try Champions or Peter Parker way more than Vision & Antman.

Like Redjack said Marvel & Disney have access to stuff that we don't. And guys like D & C should NEVER get access to.

[rui no onna]

technically true but the vast majority of people don't play the stock market and, of the group that does, the number that both read marvel comics and are stockholders in the company is infinitesimally tiny.

I'll say MASS shareholders going forward.

Perhaps no voting rights is the correct terminology? Pretty sure DIS doesn't have Class A and B shares like BRK so they're all common stock. However, I think there are very few individuals who have sufficient shares to have voting rights (e.g. Steve Jobs' widow, Ike Perlmutter, etc). Reckon majority of the company is owned by institutional investors.

That said, shareholders aren't really privy to the mundane day to day running of a company unless they also happen to be high level employees. Despite the spirited debates this topic engenders, this falls under the mundane.

Mind, I do think Marvel needed a wake up call. They've just been catering solely to the direct market for a long time and have become complacent because all they had to do was an event, crossover, renumbering, variants or increased pricing whenever they needed to bump their sales. It's getting drowned out by vocal racist, mysogynistic, homophobic sh**heads but the business practices is really the reason why a lot of retailers are so frustrated with Marvel.

[QBall]

I would say books like America Chavez selling ~10,000 copies/month (assuming no overship) is hurting revenues when better-selling books have been cancelled.

And truly popular characters like Spidey, etc selling in the 50,000 range or less are simply pathetic. They sold better AFTER the speculator bubble burst, and even during the Meltdown.

Every book has it's own cancellation point, there isn't a uniform number that all books must sell above to avoid cancellation. Creator's pay scales, printing & distribution costs for X amount of books, factored TPBK & digital sales, all these (and presumably other factors) go into determining if a title is worth soliciting.

[Redjack]

P

Mind, I do think Marvel needed a wake up call. They've just been catering solely to the direct market for a long time and have become complacent because all they had to do was an event, crossover, renumbering, variants or increased pricing whenever they needed to bump their sales. It's getting drowned out by vocal racist, mysogynistic, homophobic sh**heads but the business practices is really the reason why a lot of retailers are so frustrated with Marvel.

this.

as usual.

[Jokerz79]

Technically, some of us probably are, just not majority shareholders. Even then, Marvel Publishing is such a small portion of Disney's revenue that it probably doesn't even merit a mention during board meetings. Mere shareholders don't have access to internal company data.

My dad bought Marvel Enterprises (at my request this was around 00 the shares were at about 2.70 a share and eventually went over 20.00 a share after Spider-Man was released), Disney, Comcast, WWE, and a few other smaller stocks in 00 after he inherited some money from his mother's death. You get quarterly reports on the state of the corporation and basically a booklet explaining all the "great" things they plan on doing. It's nothing too detailed about the in and outs of the company more of a public relations package when you're a small share holder. He died a few years ago and the stocks were all sold and profits split amongst us kids so this is all old info on how it was done. But back then that is how.

[rui no onna]

My dad bought Marvel Enterprises (at my request this was around 00 the shares were at about 2.70 a share and eventually went over 20.00 a share after Spider-Man was released), Disney, Comcast, WWE, and a few other smaller stocks in 00 after he inherited some money from his mother's death. You get quarterly reports on the state of the corporation and basically a booklet explaining all the "great" things they plan on doing. It's nothing too detailed about the in and outs of the company more of a public relations package when you're a small share holder. He died a few years ago and the stocks were all sold and profits split amongst us kids so this is all old info on how it was done. But back then that is how.

Anyone can easily download the 10-Q and 10-K SEC filings nowadays. I don't think anyone bothers with booklets anymore. Granted, I do electronic/paperless with Schwab so it's not like I get anything in the mail.

[Valamist]

I have tried watching C&D but I just do not agree with him or find him very insightful. Plus I think his 'SJW' warmongering is naive and frankly pathetic. If people like him then fair enough, good luck to him and all that, but I am off the opinion that if you do not like something, be it a comic book, review show etc, then you should not be obliged to read/watch it. Its the same way I avoid anything Trump/Conservative related like the plague, and hence why I very much doubt I will click onto his channel again.

Plus, he apparently roasted Squirrel Girl, one of my all-time favorite characters and the first Marvel book I ever read so... yeah, not a fan of him!

Dr Aphras is, if a bit annoying, still a marginally interesting, developed character, unlike America Chavez who is nothing but a collection of extremist lesbian cliches/stereotypes and dialogue that sounds more like a Feminist Theory 201 lecture than anything else.

Well, I am enjoying America at least! That said, I do think Marvel dropped the ball with her book. I mean, MAC has many fans and a solo book was much requested, but I would say most of her fans do not even but her book, simply because the characterization shown in the book is very different from the Chavez we know. As I said I am still enjoying it (I really like the 'out there' vibe it has) I am honestly surprised the book has not been canned yet, or had a creative shake-up.

[JKtheMac]

Anyone can easily download the 10-Q and 10-K SEC filings nowadays. I don't think anyone bothers with booklets anymore. Granted, I do electronic/paperless with Schwab so it's not like I get anything in the mail.

Indeed because of some of the arguments here I have been keeping up with the quarterly reports from Disney. They hardly ever say anything about Marvel Publishing because it is tiny compared to the things their shareholders are concerned about. For the uninitiated it would actually be hard to work out which sector of Disney they are under to see if they are in a profitable part of the organisation. And even then there is no way of telling what kind of revenue is created from comics specifically.

At board level I imagine the most interesting thing about Marvel Publishing is their innovation in subscription services, which will provide an internal case study now that Disney are moving in that direction.