Retailer Fury At Marvel NYCC Panel

[skyvolt2000]

Why? Many of us were here first. Why do we have to "just walk away" and let you do what you want with the characters we've loved in many cases for decades? What makes your claim on them superior to ours?

And if you LOVED these guys for decades----

Tony Stark got replaced TWICE by James Rhodes.

Steve got REPLACED TWICE by US Agent & Winter Solider.

Thor got REPLACED by Erik Masterson.

Did they all NOT come back? SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO that means you understand that those stories of replacement will eventually END. Mainly with a mini or solo for the replacement.

So if we understand that logic-this entitlement rage should not be happening.

The walk away is just that walk away from the books until they become what you are interested in.


And "we were here FIRST?" Are we REALLY going to play that card? No one CARES if yall was here first. No one.

[Mike_Murdock]

Astonishing artwork. I think the way the comics convey Daredevil's moves in fights and the way he senses the world is one of the towering peaks of comic artwork. (Not sure who did what between Frank M and Klaus J...but what a team!)

The first half of the run was fairly traditional. Frank Miller did pencils and Klaus Janson did inks. As it went along, Miller did sketches and Janson drew and inked from those sketches. The big thing Miller did was have such a profound understanding of the medium and layouts, including the use of the page turn, which was not as common at the time with so many ads.

One of the issues that stands out as something that I'm glad I bought in floppy is Daredevil #191, which Miller went back to pencil while Terry Austin inked. In this issue, Daredevil is playing Russian Roulette with Bullseye. The issue goes back and forth with Daredevil pulling the trigger against Bullseye's head and then his head. Finally, you get to the final spin and Daredevil pulls the trigger. In the comic, you have to turn the page, then turn past two full pages of ads before the final reveal that the gun didn't have bullets in it in the first place. It's a simple trick, but it does a masterful job at building tension before the final reveal. The trade I have, which is the three volume Frank Miller set (well, one of those sets), has the reveal literally on the right side of the page. There isn't even a page turn. To me, there is no doubt in my mind that Miller had his pages lined up deliberately and that the trade completely butchered how it was supposed to have been read.

[gwangung]

Why? Many of us were here first.

Snicker. Whatever you say, whippersnapper.

[skyvolt2000]

That logic works in theory. But, if too many readers drop too many series at the same time, then the store's cashflow gets strangled.

Keep in mind, if Marvel has a mass exodus of readers, some of those readers are simply going to stay home with their money. They are not going to buy in for another series. A small comic shop can easily cut orders on a few titles. But, an entire company's output is another question, especially if the company is Marvel or DC. In that situation, the retailer needs to find something else to fill that shelf space (that they are still paying rent on).

Sorry that is an EXCUSE.

Marvel puts out 70+ books no way in HELL the entire line would make you cut every single title.

[rui no onna]

Yeah but do you “collect” (for re-reading) these books in floppy? They ruin easily and they are not very comfortable when you want to re-read a run, or part of it (change book every 20 pages or so). Wouldn't you better suited from selling those runs and buying paperbacks or hardcovers of them? They last, have better paper (better colors), a single book contains from 5-6 to 15-20 episodes. I would say paperbacks and hardcovers are the book to keep while floppies are disposable (or, given the fact that many people see them as collectible, are sellable to buy a better format).

Floppies are $4-5 per issue while trade paperbacks average $2-3 per issue (and can often be had for less on Amazon). Even hardcovers can be had for ~$3 per issue or less.

I reckon a large portion ($-wise) of the remaining direct market for print periodicals is comprised of collectors and speculators. That's why #1s and variants sell. It may have started out as a disposable medium (pretty much why high grade Action Comics #1 and Detective Comics #27 command millions) but the format has pretty much turned into a collectible market. What are variants if not manufactured collectibles?

[ed2962]

Ethnic amd female characters have always been present in good numbers at Marvel, and even more so since the 80s. There is NO shortage of ethnic characters at Marvel. Therefore there is no need to "push" ethnic/female characters.

Marvel is not that and never has been that.

If it were about just owning trademarks on minority or female characters then there wouldn't be any discussion. But if you have characters and don't use them in a positive or meaningful way, you might as well not have them.

[ed2962]

Why? Many of us were here first. Why do we have to "just walk away" and let you do what you want with the characters we've loved in many cases for decades? What makes your claim on them superior to ours?

Who is this "we" who were here "first"?

[ed2962]

The first half of the run was fairly traditional. Frank Miller did pencils and Klaus Janson did inks. As it went along, Miller did sketches and Janson drew and inked from those sketches. The big thing Miller did was have such a profound understanding of the medium and layouts, including the use of the page turn, which was not as common at the time with so many ads.

One of the issues that stands out as something that I'm glad I bought in floppy is Daredevil #191, which Miller went back to pencil while Terry Austin inked. In this issue, Daredevil is playing Russian Roulette with Bullseye. The issue goes back and forth with Daredevil pulling the trigger against Bullseye's head and then his head. Finally, you get to the final spin and Daredevil pulls the trigger. In the comic, you have to turn the page, then turn past two full pages of ads before the final reveal that the gun didn't have bullets in it in the first place. It's a simple trick, but it does a masterful job at building tension before the final reveal. The trade I have, which is the three volume Frank Miller set (well, one of those sets), has the reveal literally on the right side of the page. There isn't even a page turn. To me, there is no doubt in my mind that Miller had his pages lined up deliberately and that the trade completely butchered how it was supposed to have been read.

Miller definitely understood comics storytelling on level that I think few other artists did/do.

[Redjack]

Why? Many of us were here first. Why do we have to "just walk away" and let you do what you want with the characters we've loved in many cases for decades? What makes your claim on them superior to ours?

You don't own them. You're not "letting" anybody do anything. And nobody owes you anything. They don't belong to you.

[Za Waldo]

paperback novels were specially invented to be quickly disposed of once used and that model holds true today. Periodicals were and are as well. Comic books are made of crappier stock, on the whole, than magazines, on the whole. Comic books are magazines. Comic books are periodicals. This isn't calculus. It's just how it works.

Which has nothing to do with now. Because now isn't the 19th century, and modern paperbacks aren't cheap dime novels. You seem to be confusing how things are now with how some things were 150 years ago.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

Which has nothing to do with now. Because now isn't the 19th century, and modern paperbacks aren't cheap dime novels. You seem to be confusing how things are now with how some things were 150 years ago.

You do realize $1.00 a hundred years ago equals approx. $21 dollars today right?

[Jokerz79]

And if you LOVED these guys for decades----

Tony Stark got replaced TWICE by James Rhodes.

Steve got REPLACED TWICE by US Agent & Winter Solider.

Thor got REPLACED by Erik Masterson.

Did they all NOT come back? SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO that means you understand that those stories of replacement will eventually END. Mainly with a mini or solo for the replacement.

So if we understand that logic-this entitlement rage should not be happening.

The walk away is just that walk away from the books until they become what you are interested in.


And "we were here FIRST?" Are we REALLY going to play that card? No one CARES if yall was here first. No one.

What? Fandoms all Fandoms always pride themselves on loyalty it's why we have the term fairweather fans. So yeah the loyalty to a character, series, franchise, or sport team through thick and thin or good times and bad times is usually valued.

[Za Waldo]

You do realize $1.00 a hundred years ago equals approx. $21 dollars today right?

What does that have to do with something that cost like ten or fifteen cents then?

[Jokerz79]

What does that have to do with something that cost like ten or fifteen cents then?

Yeah ten cents in 1917 equaled just a little less than 2.00 dollars today. You can't buy a paperback today for under 2 dollars unless you get used. Wait there is a used market for paperbacks but I thought we threw them all out? Yeah I think your right judging comics and paperbacks on the same standards as when the mediums were created is a false equation. Heck I have a friend who owns a comic book/used book store.

[Za Waldo]

Yeah ten cents in 1917 equaled just a little less than 2.00 dollars today. You can't buy a paperback today for under 2 dollars unless you get used. Wait there is a used market for paperbacks but I thought we threw them all out? Yeah I think your right judging comics and paperbacks on the same standards as when the mediums were created is a false equation. Heck I have a friend who owns a comic book/used book store.

I say we also judge the accessible of a night to the theatre based on how accessible it was to the groundling in the 17th century.