What JLA lineup would be the best match for the Avengers.

[Alan2099]

Make a lineup of JLA members that could best fight EVENLY with the Avengers. I'm not looking for a team that could stomp them or even a term that could beat them most of the time. Put together a team that has the closest to a 50/50 chance against them as you can.


The Avengers are ...

Captain America
Ironman
Thor
Hulk
Hank Pym
Wasp
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Vision
Hawkeye
Black Panther

What's the best match you can come up with?

[The Arbiter]

Captain America
Ironman
Thor
Hulk
Hank Pym
Wasp
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Vision
Hawkeye
Black Panther

Batman
Captain Atom
Firestorm
Wonder Woman
Steel
Zatanna
Green Arrow
Ray Palmer
Guy Gardner from his yellow ring days

Honestly I'm not great at these larger scale fights. I'm probably over or underestimating someone. Wonder Woman's speed will be a hard obstacle to overcome for example

[daBronzeBomma]

It's tough to get that close to 50/50 simply because characters from different companies usually aren't created to be equal to each other. But here goes:



Captain America vs Batman

Ironman vs Green Lantern Hal Jordan (or Cyborg if stomp for GL)

Thor vs Wonder Woman

Hulk vs Superman

Hank Pym vs Atom

Wasp vs Black Canary

Scarlet Witch vs Zatanna

Quicksilver vs Flash

Vision vs Martian Manhunter

Hawkeye vs Green Arrow

Black Panther vs Aquaman (or Cyborg if stomp)

...

My gut tells me this League lineup probably beats these Avengers 6/10 times without PIS, but that's the closest I can make it without stomping in the other direction for Marvel.

[The Arbiter]

You see, Flash, Manhunter and Supes are probably way too much honestly. :/ DC has so much speed

[daBronzeBomma]

You see, Flash, Manhunter and Supes are probably way too much honestly. :/ DC has so much speed

Hmmm ... the problem seems to be that DC doesn't have much in the way of speedster gradients: there's Flash-level at the top, then Superman/Wonder Woman/Shazam-level, then sharp drop all the way down to mere bullet-timers (whom Quicksilver would paste) and finally CBPH-level. Can't think of anyone who wouldn't either destroy or get destroyed by Quicksilver. Wait a sec ...

Captain America vs Batman

Ironman vs Green Lantern Hal Jordan

Thor vs Wonder Woman

Hulk vs Superman

Hank Pym vs Atom

Wasp vs Black Canary

Scarlet Witch vs Zatanna

Quicksilver vs Red Tornado

Vision vs Cyborg

Hawkeye vs Green Arrow

Black Panther vs Aquaman

...

Better? This feels closer to 50/50 to me.

[The Arbiter]

Yeah, that feels closer for sure. Superman is still going to murder hulk and wreck havok but its better.

And I agree, dc speed is either all or nothing lol

[StupidMoniker]

I don't think there is a canon incarnation of the League that doesn't stomp this Avengers lineup. There tends to be someone on the team with massive superspeed that is going to solo the other team (Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, etc.) Just selecting from people that have been members:
Captain America - Batman
Ironman - Cyborg
Thor - Green Lantern (Guy)
Hulk - Big Barda
Hank Pym - The Atom
Wasp - Black Canary
Scarlet Witch - Zatanna
Quicksilver - Jessie Quick (unfortunately DC speedsters tend to be much faster than Pietro)
Vision - Aztek
Hawkeye - Green Arrow
Black Panther - Hawkman

That is about as close as I can make it I think, though Jessie's speed could still be a big issue.

[daBronzeBomma]

Doesn't Jesse also have super-strength on top of her super-speed?

[Powerboy]

It's tough to get that close to 50/50 simply because characters from different companies usually aren't created to be equal to each other. But here goes:

Captain America vs Batman

Ironman vs Green Lantern Hal Jordan (or Cyborg if stomp for GL)

Thor vs Wonder Woman

Hulk vs Superman

Hank Pym vs Atom

Wasp vs Black Canary

Scarlet Witch vs Zatanna

Quicksilver vs Flash

Vision vs Martian Manhunter

Hawkeye vs Green Arrow

Black Panther vs Aquaman (or Cyborg if stomp)

...

My gut tells me this League lineup probably beats these Avengers 6/10 times without PIS, but that's the closest I can make it without stomping in the other direction for Marvel.

One of the problems is the DC speed blitz. While all of these types of comparisons would work nicely in a comic book story, the problem here on Rumbles is that is that it won't work when you don't cheat and slide the characters downscale or upscale to be relatively equal in power, which is what would happen in a comic book. It's similar to why these characters don't work as Player-Characters in a roleplaying game- because the players are not going to pretend their powers don't exist or are operating at a much lower level for the sake of having an actual story.

For instance, as you surmised, Hal Jordan GL with a functioning brain and his ring working stomps Iron-Man. Wonder Woman speed blitzes the living snot out of Thor, which is also what Superman does to the Hulk. Quicksilver vs the Flash is a joke un;ess it's a greatly powered down version of the Flash, maybe the 1990 television version.

Some of these may be good matches and would certainly be great character interactions. With speeds equalized (not even exactly equaled but at least in the same park), most of these would be decent matches.

[Alan2099]

Hal Jordan GL with a functioning brain and his ring working stomps Iron-Man

Swap him for Guy then!

Actually looking more at the Bwahaha era line-up we might have a better match now that I think about it.

How is Powergirl for speedfeats?

[The Drunkard Kid]

Honestly, Thor is probably a better match up for Green Lantern Hal than Tony is.

That being said, want every single person on DC Earth a member of the JLA at one point? That should give a wider pool of potential options.

[Captain Morgan]

Swap him for Guy then!

Actually looking more at the Bwahaha era line-up we might have a better match now that I think about it.

How is Powergirl for speedfeats?

She's had some globe spanning battles with Wonder Woman that involve both fighting all out and using speed on each other, and she was outspeeding and overpowering as well, with Diana only getting the edge thanks to skill. She's basically as fast as any other Kryptonian.

A lot of the proposals so far have been stomps for the JLA due to speed or underestimating how crazy powerful Lanterns are, but let me take a stab. Going to go post crisis unless otherwise specified.

Captain America-- Black Canary. People keep saying Batman, except Batman is only 50/50 with Cap hand to hand. His gear has always made it a stomp. Instead I tried to grab someone who isn't quite on that level of physicality but another power which evens the score. I don't think the JLA has had many members who are human and don't have a massive arsenal of weapons which tip things in their favor. Closest I can think of is Guardian but I'd be shocked if he has the feats to hang with Cap. Dinah probably wins with AoEs in the arena that Cap can't block, but I could see a fight in other terrain where Cap can use cover to supplement his shield going either way. Dinah isn't just going to fold to a shield toss like the average glass cannon would.


Ironman-- Big Barda. Barda edges in raw power and fighting skill, but Tony has the edge in versatility and maneuverability. However, Motherbox helps counter that. I see him playing a somewhat desperate game of keep away while he tries to figure out a way to take down the baddest of the Furies, but I think Stark has the resourcefulness to pull a win about half the time. Modern Day Cyborg might be a viable replacement, but I don't know if he's got the feats to hang. You'd think he WOULD with New God tech...

Thor-- Orion. He's always been Thor's best match up in DC and closest analogue, despite how many threads you see involving Superman. Unless this is Jane, classic Thor and Orion has always been basically coin flip territory.

Hulk -- Plastic Man? I'm legit not sure either can put the other down. They can certainly cause the other some suffering along with the way. I guess maaaaybe Hulk can chuck Plas into space, but that seems like it would be really hard to do.

Hank Pym -- NOT THE ATOM. The Atom killed Darkseid. Pym is no Darkseid. Try... I dunno, Nu Aquaman? Unless folks want to bust out some Pym feats.

Wasp -- Black Lightning. Either you have a quick draw, or Janet shrinks down and is a harder target to hit which should even out with Lightning's superior area of effects.

Scarlet Witch -- Zatana? Wanda's power levels have been so all over the map, I'm not even sure where she's pegged these days.

Quicksilver-- I wanna say the modern version might be an interesting fight for Red Tornado? Durability and AoE stuff vs huuuuge speed edge? Dunno. He's a toughie too.

Vision-- Firestorm, just based on the quick draw. Vision's phasing makes him one of those stomp or be stomped types, but I don't think FS has especially enhanced durability so a solar blast should be able to drop him if Vision wins the quick draw. Otherwise Ronnie can turn him to snow with a handwave.

Hawkeye -- Green Arrow, back when he had as many goofy trick arrows as Hawkeye. I think this is an analogue that has always had decent parity for feats.

Black Panther-- Batman. Though, BP's standard equipment seems to change each month, so there are versions that beat Bruce bad and versions that lose worse than Cap.

[theoneandonly]

maybe if Agamemno turns up and pulls a body switch then the avengers will have a 50/50 chance as then the villains may not be able to utilise those powers effectively though that doesn't hold if sinestro gets to be in green lanterns body.

[StupidMoniker]

Doesn't Jesse also have super-strength on top of her super-speed?

Yes she does. Quicksilver is definitely the toughest one to have a decent matchup with, especially a speedster v. speedster matchup.

[Slade1]

She's had some globe spanning battles with Wonder Woman that involve both fighting all out and using speed on each other, and she was outspeeding and overpowering as well, with Diana only getting the edge thanks to skill. She's basically as fast as any other Kryptonian.

A lot of the proposals so far have been stomps for the JLA due to speed or underestimating how crazy powerful Lanterns are, but let me take a stab. Going to go post crisis unless otherwise specified.

Captain America-- Black Canary. People keep saying Batman, except Batman is only 50/50 with Cap hand to hand. His gear has always made it a stomp. Instead I tried to grab someone who isn't quite on that level of physicality but another power which evens the score. I don't think the JLA has had many members who are human and don't have a massive arsenal of weapons which tip things in their favor. Closest I can think of is Guardian but I'd be shocked if he has the feats to hang with Cap. Dinah probably wins with AoEs in the arena that Cap can't block, but I could see a fight in other terrain where Cap can use cover to supplement his shield going either way. Dinah isn't just going to fold to a shield toss like the average glass cannon would.


Ironman-- Big Barda. Barda edges in raw power and fighting skill, but Tony has the edge in versatility and maneuverability. However, Motherbox helps counter that. I see him playing a somewhat desperate game of keep away while he tries to figure out a way to take down the baddest of the Furies, but I think Stark has the resourcefulness to pull a win about half the time. Modern Day Cyborg might be a viable replacement, but I don't know if he's got the feats to hang. You'd think he WOULD with New God tech...

Thor-- Orion. He's always been Thor's best match up in DC and closest analogue, despite how many threads you see involving Superman. Unless this is Jane, classic Thor and Orion has always been basically coin flip territory.

Hulk -- Plastic Man? I'm legit not sure either can put the other down. They can certainly cause the other some suffering along with the way. I guess maaaaybe Hulk can chuck Plas into space, but that seems like it would be really hard to do.

Hank Pym -- NOT THE ATOM. The Atom killed Darkseid. Pym is no Darkseid. Try... I dunno, Nu Aquaman? Unless folks want to bust out some Pym feats.

Wasp -- Black Lightning. Either you have a quick draw, or Janet shrinks down and is a harder target to hit which should even out with Lightning's superior area of effects.

Scarlet Witch -- Zatana? Wanda's power levels have been so all over the map, I'm not even sure where she's pegged these days.

Quicksilver-- I wanna say the modern version might be an interesting fight for Red Tornado? Durability and AoE stuff vs huuuuge speed edge? Dunno. He's a toughie too.

Vision-- Firestorm, just based on the quick draw. Vision's phasing makes him one of those stomp or be stomped types, but I don't think FS has especially enhanced durability so a solar blast should be able to drop him if Vision wins the quick draw. Otherwise Ronnie can turn him to snow with a handwave.

Hawkeye -- Green Arrow, back when he had as many goofy trick arrows as Hawkeye. I think this is an analogue that has always had decent parity for feats.

Black Panther-- Batman. Though, BP's standard equipment seems to change each month, so there are versions that beat Bruce bad and versions that lose worse than Cap.

Post crisis Firestorm has phasing as well.