Flash War: Wally Classic vs. Barry

[Kyer]

http://www.cbr.com/flash-war-barry-a...est/?view=list

I can't but think that this will end badly. Especially since it's in Barry's title.

Oh hell no. (and yes I am aware about profanity rules)
Oh HELL no!
WTF does DC think it is doing?!

I'm sitting here finally hearing stuff about Marvel, Waid, Retailers, and broohaha only to escape for a moment to come to DC Forum for some reasonable fun....and run into this? SERIOUSLY?!

Oh. Hell. No.

You know. I'm not going to deal right now. Will come back later and try to find out what is what, why, and wherefore. Just can't deal right now.

[Outside_85]

They already settled that in REBIRTH # 1: Wally knows it's not Barry, but some entity (Dr. Manhattan) out there.

I always thought that if Barry and Wally were to have a disagreement about anything, Pre-FLASHPOINT, at least, it would have been Barry's complicity in agreeing to the forced personality makeover given to Dr. Light in IDENTITY CRISIS. Wally was quite shocked at the time that Barry agreed to it, but as Barry was "dead" at the time, Wally didn't have the opportunity to confront Barry on that issue.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Except... thats not true, because Manhattan only created the New 52, Barry was the one who created Flashpoint.

[Frontier]

Except... thats not true, because Manhattan only created the New 52, Barry was the one who created Flashpoint.

Manhattan was the one who caused the changes of the New 52.

Barry was about to restore the timeline but then Manhattan, seemingly, started picking and choosing things to keep and take out of the DCU.

[The Darknight Detective]

Except... thats not true, because Manhattan only created the New 52, Barry was the one who created Flashpoint.

... and Wally, Jay, and every other speedster you could name would have done the same exact thing. None of them would have been selfish, either, because they would have been following the known rules of time travel up to that point. This should be indisputable, but apparently it still is for some reason.

[Waterfall]

Was it fair that Barry got yanked off the scene for twenty years while the family was thriving? Fairness cuts both ways.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

10 people for 1 guy? More than fair enough.

[Buried Alien]

... and Wally, Jay, and every other speedster you could name would have done the same exact thing. None of them would have been selfish, either, because they would have been following the known rules of time travel up to that point. This should be indisputable, but apparently it still is for some reason.

Not only that, but the alternative was...do nothing and let Thawne win, perhaps thereby encouraging Thawne to make even more damaging changes to the timeline later. How would people have viewed Barry then?

If I were to fault Barry for anything, it would be for not informing Wally, Jay, Bart, etc., about what had happened and recruiting them to help him deal with Thawne. Perhaps had they all gone after Thawne together, a better outcome would have resulted.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[SiegePerilous02]

10 people for 1 guy? More than fair enough.

Again, the one guy was benched for 20 years or so. If fans wanted more stories with him, they were SOL. What happened to the others may not have been fair, but the real Wally is back, Jay is returning and maybe Bart at some point in the future. And they weren't absent for as long as Barry was.

[Buried Alien]

10 people for 1 guy? More than fair enough.

@you and HAN9000: if the basic premise of your argument is that every other speedster should be around, but Barry must necessarily be dead forever, then sorry: there really isn't a reasonable path forward in this discussion.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[The Darknight Detective]

Not only that, but the alternative was...do nothing and let Thawne win, perhaps thereby encouraging Thawne do make even more damaging changes to the timeline later. How would people have viewed Barry then?

I agree. Barry did the right thing, but the rules had been changed on him.

If I were to fault Barry for anything, it would be for not informing Wally, Jay, Bart, etc., about what had happened and recruiting them to help him deal with Thawne. Perhaps had they all gone after Thawne together, a better outcome would have resulted.
Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I also agree with that, BA.

[The Darknight Detective]

@you and HAN9000: if the basic premise of your argument is that every other speedster should be around, but Barry must necessarily be dead forever, then sorry: there really isn't a reasonable path forward in this discussion.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Especially when, after the TV show and upcoming movie appearances, the rest of them would go before Barry.

[Outside_85]

Manhattan was the one who caused the changes of the New 52.

Barry was about to restore the timeline but then Manhattan, seemingly, started picking and choosing things to keep and take out of the DCU.

Yes, on Barry's way back Manhattan may have done something... though in canon it was Pandora, but who the hell can keep track of John's calendar any longer? Point is still that Barry is the original sinner, he was the one who went back in time to save his mom while every timetraveller with a god complex decided to jump at the opportunity.

And good luck to him finding and remembering every single change Zoom did in order to keep Barry depowered and his own life from the 25th century in one piece.

... and Wally, Jay, and every other speedster you could name would have done the same exact thing. None of them would have been selfish, either, because they would have been following the known rules of time travel up to that point. This should be indisputable, but apparently it still is for some reason.

If you are willing to change the world or the course of history just for your personal benefit, then it is selfish, that's practically the definition of the word. No one, and I mean, absolutely no one, benefited from Barry's mom being alive, other than Barry.

[Frontier]

If you are willing to change the world or the course of history just for your personal benefit, then it is selfish, that's practically the definition of the word. No one, and I mean, absolutely no one, benefited from Barry's mom being alive, other than Barry.

And Barry's dad, who was framed for her murder and spent his life in prison because of it.

But the point is is that Nora's death was an aberration to begin with because Thawne went back in time to do it.

Ordinarily Barry would be able to set things right, but DC apparently like emphasizing that Barry has a dead mom.

[Buried Alien]

I also agree with that, BA.

I think a common theme at DC is when heroes choose to go it alone instead of relying on teamwork with their allies, things usually go pear-shaped in a hurry. Batman has plenty of experience with this (but seems to finally be learning from it).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[BohemiaDrinker]

I could imagine Wally being quite ticked off if he remembers he had;
A) a high standing among his superhero colleges
B) a wife he loved
C) kids he loved even more

And all of that was wiped out because Barry was selfish.

They already settled that in REBIRTH # 1: Wally knows it's not Barry, but some entity (Dr. Manhattan) out there.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Except... thats not true, because Manhattan only created the New 52, Barry was the one who created Flashpoint.

I'm gonna have to side with B.A. on this one.

Even if the New 52 was Barry's fault(and it wasn't), Wally would side by him. And creating Flashpoint? Wally briefly created a reality where the Antimonitor won the Crisis on Infinite Earths battle; he travelled time to rescue an already deceased Linda Park from the Black Flash and, for all intents and purposes, erased the Black Flash from existence (and he was, like, a force of nature needed for the balance yada yada yada).

[Outside_85]

And Barry's dad, who was framed for her murder and spent his life in prison because of it.

But the point is is that Nora's death was an aberration to begin with because Thawne went back in time to do it.

Ordinarily Barry would be able to set things right, but DC apparently like emphasizing that Barry has a dead mom.

All of which I think is also one of Johns' rewrites, is it not?

And in doing so, Thawne eventually made Barry a superhero, that superhero eventually also lead to Wally becoming a superhero and so on and so on.

If you want to mess around with the timeline for your own personal benefit, you could look at the earlier Superman/Batman: Absolute Power and see how that went.