Superman opinions you're disdainful towards.

[Agent Z]

Every Flash Superman Race up to 1990. Back before the diminishing.

Superman never beat Flash in a race. There was no diminishing done

[Johnny Thunders!]

I think you should pick up Superman Vs The Flash. Every race up to 2002 AND the only race where Flash won up to 1990 was actually Super slow. Before that Superman moved so fast he time traveled. Before they diminished his speed.

[Agent Z]

I think you should pick up Superman Vs The Flash. Every race up to 2002 AND the only race where Flash won up to 1990 was actually Super slow. Before that Superman moved so fast he time traveled. Before they diminished his speed.

I never said Flash won those races up to 2002. I said Superman never won. And Flash was moving through time and different dimensions so your point is moot

[Johnny Thunders!]

I never said Flash won those races up to 2002. I said Superman never won. And Flash was moving through time and different dimensions so your point is moot

But my point is, since he’s been moving beyond light speed since 1947, and time traveling, that gives Superman a chance.

[Agent Z]

But my point is, since he’s been moving beyond light speed since 1947, and time traveling, that gives Superman a chance.

If he's never actually beaten the Flash, no it doesn't.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Disdain duly noted!

[DochaDocha]

Why do fans hate: Clark Kent is who i am and Superman is what i do?

Step in his shoes. Superman is not his name. It was given by others. His name is Clark Kent. His name is Kal-El. His name is not Superman.

Why such a fuss? I grew up as Clark Kent. So i am Clark Kent. Just by putting on some clothes i am not changed. Why this hatred? I am not here to challenge but to understand why fans feel like this?

I could go on for hours and hours on this topic without really getting to the real meat of it, so I'll do my best here. It's not the worst idea, but it comes with a lot of awful baggage. In the end, I dislike "Clark is who I am..." (from here on out, "the mantra") on many levels.

The mantra works for L&C, because quite literally, the relationship is the single most important aspect of the show. There's this old saying that you may forget what someone said or did for you, but you won't forget how that person made you feel, and that's not dissimilar to the relationship's impact on the show. You might forget who the episode's random villain was, or whatever super feats Superman did, or even forget what kind of romantic scenes happened on the show, but you're going to remember that Dean and Teri had nice on-screen chemistry. Everything else on the show was secondary to their relationship, so it's fine to undersell Superman's need to do superheroics and focus on the fact that he wanted her and she wanted him and that's the end game. But then again, this was also a soap opera, and not really in line with what most other representations of the character set out to do.

Certainly Superman is not going to forget where he came from, that he lived on a farm and tried to live a normal life like every other kid he knew, but consider his most obvious Biblical analogue, Moses. Superman had his equivalent to a burning bush moment when he discovered for himself a greater calling, which is his mission in life. People go through life-changing moments, and I figure Superman went through his. It gets to the point where his world view changed so dramatically, it's almost impossible to see him as "just" Clark Kent.

Another reason why I don't like that saying, even though it shouldn't be a reason, is because I actually think it kind of makes Superman seem soft relative to his superhero peers. I mean, can you imagine modern-day Batman's saying, "Bruce Wayne is who I am, and Batman is what I do?" A guy who says that doesn't seem quite as invested in doing the dirty work day-to-day, even when you don't want to, and especially when you don't need to to make a living. The mantra sets the audience's gauge on what Superman prioritizes most, and for me, he's most interesting when job one should be doing the things that no one else can do to make the world better, even if that means sacrificing his own personal gains. Perhaps there's a time when Superman when Superman will retire and give up the superhero life, but I think that would most fittingly be an end story like "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow," and I wouldn't be terribly interested in reading the stories of Superman's AARP days.

I also often wonder what kind of effect the mantra has on fans and writers. I've come to the conclusion that the consensus is that it means Superman is essentially a job. For most people, a job is just a job, a way to make a living. If you didn't have to work, you wouldn't have your job. You'd spend it with your family, or friends, or doing something fun or volunteering to help others, etc. I hope that fans and writers don't look at being Superman as something like a hobby. I'd rather think he does it out of a sense of responsibility, but also that he finds it fulfilling and probably gets more fulfillment out of doing what he thinks is right than most anything else, and he'd sacrifice any other personal gains.

Now despite Superman's vocation in life, he's not a robot, so he's going to get emotional and probably long for the normal life sometimes. I think that's perfectly in-bounds for Superman stories, so long as you don't make it so utterly angsty. Everyone's allowed to reflect on whether their decisions were the right ones, or what would life be like if a few things were done differently, and Superman's not an exception. We should get introspective stories like these, because you want to have diversity in storytelling, and if you want the character to read as nuanced and deep as possible, you should explore a wide range of feelings and thoughts he will have. That said, imagine someone had to write the definitive Superman story in 10 short volumes. How many volumes could you get away with the superheroics and little of the personal stuff, and how many volumes could you get away with a lot of the personal stuff and none of the superheroics? I think you pretty much have to spend more time on the superheroics if it were to be the definitive Superman story along the lines of All-Star.

That was a lot of wandering and babbling, so TL;DR the mantra makes Superman seem soft, and it seems to make the heroic lifestyle somehow seem less important than whatever personal goals he might also want to attain. If you tried applying the mantra to any other hero, you'd create a lot of unintentional comedy.

[sunofdarkchild]

Another reason why I don't like that saying, even though it shouldn't be a reason, is because I actually think it kind of makes Superman seem soft relative to his superhero peers. I mean, can you imagine modern-day Batman's saying, "Bruce Wayne is who I am, and Batman is what I do?" A guy who says that doesn't seem quite as invested in doing the dirty work day-to-day, even when you don't want to, and especially when you don't need to to make a living.

There have been several stories where Batman says just that, most notably Knightquest and Bruce Wayne, Murderer.

[DochaDocha]

There have been several stories where Batman says just that, most notably Knightquest and Bruce Wayne, Murderer.

Sorry, I should've clarified and said something like can you imagine if Kevin Conroy or any of the cinema Batmen said that?

[sunofdarkchild]

Sorry, I should've clarified and said something like can you imagine if Kevin Conroy or any of the cinema Batmen said that?

The Nolan version. A running plot through the entire trilogy was his desire to retire Batman so Bruce could get his life back.

[Jon Clark]

Why do fans hate: Clark Kent is who i am and Superman is what i do?

Step in his shoes. Superman is not his name. It was given by others. His name is Clark Kent. His name is Kal-El. His name is not Superman.

Why such a fuss? I grew up as Clark Kent. So i am Clark Kent. Just by putting on some clothes i am not changed. Why this hatred? I am not here to challenge but to understand why fans feel like this?

It comes down to who you think Clark Kent is. To me he's always been the guy who went to school with Lana and Pete. The guy who worked next to Jimmy and Lois. In other words the guy who can't outrun bullets, overpower locomotives or leap tall buildings. He's the person the Kents would have raised if the kid they found had simply been a regular Joe. Superman is who he is when the powers, knowledge, and experiences of his whole life are on display- the flights, the senses that see and hear what no one else does, the insecurity of being different from everyone else and having no idea why (or knowing he is not from Earth), and being relaxed enough to mentions all this out loud.

Even looking at the show that gave us "Clark Kent is who I am", ask yourself if all those cute vignettes in the first season (playing every position in a ballgame, out performing Bo Jackson in a pick-up game, even floating up to change a lightbulb) are things Clark does around his close friends? Is he thinking of himself as "being in Superman mode" at those moments? Because to me he was simply being himself ... but that self wasn't the same self he shows anyone but Jonathan and Martha and definitely not the same self he shows people as Clark.

Clark knew kids in Smallville and spent his days doing farm chores. Superboy knew kids from the future and spent his days in the 30th century. Which one of them better defines him as an adult?

[sunofdarkchild]

To me, the best explanation for 'Clark is who I am, Superman is what I do' came during the Death of Clark Kent arc, where he explained to Lois that he takes more pride in writing novels than in flying to the moon, that he wants to show what he could be without his powers and be accepted as a normal human. Flying to the moon is fun and exciting, and even fills him with wonder, but it doesn't have the same satisfaction as writing a pulitzer prize winning story or an award-winning novel.

[Carabas]

I mean, can you imagine modern-day Batman's saying, "Bruce Wayne is who I am, and Batman is what I do?"

Yes, yes I can very easily imagine that.

It's how he should be.

[Adekis]

To me, the best explanation for 'Clark is who I am, Superman is what I do' came during the Death of Clark Kent arc, where he explained to Lois that he takes more pride in writing novels than in flying to the moon, that he wants to show what he could be without his powers and be accepted as a normal human. Flying to the moon is fun and exciting, and even fills him with wonder, but it doesn't have the same satisfaction as writing a pulitzer prize winning story or an award-winning novel.

I actually think that all that stuff works even better if Clark's not "the real guy". Kal experiences the world on such a different level to humans that he can never really be one, but he's got so much respect for the mundane difficulty of life that he wants to challenge himself the way we're all challenged just to live. Thus, he puts boatloads of time and effort into his greatest creation, ordinary man Clark Kent!

The fact that Clark writes for a living resonates precisely because Kal's not naturally the best at it like he is at most things. Kal doesn't have to hold back! He can write to the best of his ability, and test himself, and strive and improve just like humans do! And he's still worse than Lois ten years after meeting her, because she's been improving that whole time too! Most activities, he's always holding back! In fact, Clark's whole existence is basically holding back! It's part of the point of Clark- to impose restrictions on the Man of Steel. But his novels, his articles, his exposes? Those are all him, working as smart and as hard as he can to create the best product possible. Flying to the moon takes less effort for Superman than going outside and running a mile would for most of us, so it makes sense he'd be prouder of his novel.

[Soubhagya]

I am getting great responses. I am trying to read and think about them. Thank you DochaDocha and Jon Clark for giving your response. I appreciate it.

As of now i must admit i don't like Clark Kent to be a creation of Superman. Reason: it takes away that relatabilty i feel for Superman. Not against those who like it that way. Just my preference.

Superman is grand. Clark Kent is ordinary. I am ordinary. I can be Superman. My contention lies there.

This is my second question. To those who like this: Clark Kent is a lie. Superman poses as Clark Kent. Why do you like it?

I love Superman who is just someone like me. He has some special abilities. He wants to help. It is so simple and sublime. Not everyone suffers tragedy. Not everyone has that life-changing moment when everything fits in place. He listens to his parents, thinks himself and decides that he shall do something for his fellow men. It is so beautiful. It is so simple. It is so Superman.

When Clark Kent is a lie, the question is why does he do so? Why pose as Clark Kent?

Again this is not a challenge. I simply want to hear other's point of view. And my previous question stands i know there are more fans who hate: Clark Kent is who i am Superman is what i do. I am sure there would be more answers.

I want to understand how different fans love Superman.

Edit: But then again this thread is not for controversial opinions. It is for those i have disdain for. So scratch my second question. I don't like him posing as Clark Kent. I don't have disdain for it.