Continuity problems in Generations: the Spiders and Spider-Men II

[Spidercide]

In Generations: Miles Morales Spider-Man and Peter Parker Spider-Man and Spider-Men II there are four huge continuity problems.

1) Miles going back in time allows him to see a teenage Peter Parker and a child version of himself and Ganke. Except as we know (and as Spider-men II, the recap page and in fact multiple other stories corroborate) Miles doesn't have a history in the 616 universe. He was transplanted into it from the Ultimate Universe. He made his debut to the public win the 8 month time skip from Secret Wars 2015. Peter explicietly mentions that in Spider-Men II. So how can Miles possibly exist in the past? Especially since 616 Miles very existence contradicts that idea.


2) Generations is set during Amazing Spider-Man #33 but it directly contradicts it. In the original issue Peter didn't have enough time to go to school like he did in Generations, his attitude was like...the opposite of what it was in Generations and he discovered Aunt May was going to be okay in an entirely different way.


3) How the Hell does Peter NOT remember or recognize Miles when he meets him int eh future.


The story tries to pretend Peter thinks of him as a dream or an imaginary friend but Peter is clearly cognisant enough during the conversation they have and is very much awake when Miles reveals his identity to him and the fact he is from the future. Peter would 100% remember the conversation even if he somehow believed it to have been all in his head (unlikely because he met Miles earlier that day at school). But we of course never see him talk about or even THINK about how on the day Aunt May nearly died (which happened during his FIRST WEEK OF COLLEGE) he imagined meeting a kid who was a future Spider-Man clad in red and black.

And he REALLy never thinks about it when he actually MEETS Miles in the future. Like...wouldn't there have been a moment where he went 'oh my God that guy WAS real'? In fact shouldn't that apply to MOST of the times the old characters meet the new ones in Generations?


4) In Spider-Men II we see 616 Miles Morales and learn he helped Kingpin kill Don Rigoletto during the latter's rise as a crime lord. Except this contradicts Daredevil: Man Without Fear where the Don not only has an eye patch but dies in a completely different way.

I know some people think continuity got altered because of Secret Wars 2015 but we KNOW that that is not the case. Nothing in Secret Wars itself ever implies that, other stories imply or outright confirm that that is not the case and guys like Brevoort, the hand book people and bio entries for the characters do the same. For instance Doctor Strange had a bio entry in 2015 stating everything in Secret Wars happened but he just didn't remember it when he came back to life. Even if you do want to believe Secret Wars altered past continuity that wouldn't apply here since Spider-Men II was implied to have already been part of Marvel's history back during Spider-Men I in 2012.

The only explanations I can come up with for this stuff is that the time travel in Generations isn't sending them back to the 616 universe but just alternate timelines or else it's not like...the actual past or something. Or that the Vanishing Point is like creating a weird collission of the past that the characetrs are 'meant' to see as opposed to like straight up dropping the modern characters in the real past. Like if you time travelled back to ASm #33 you'd still see events play out as they happened without Miles Morales there.

And as for Spider-Men all I can throw out is maybe there are 2 people called Don Rigoletto?????

[SuperiorIronman]

I'll try to answer this but I simply haven't read this.

Time travel is complicated but suffice to say is that the event where Miles met a younger Peter simply had not occurred yet within the overall timeline. So that way you can preserve this story where the two did meet earlier than Spider-men and have this continuity for later. We simply watch this event come into existence because it did not exist before Generations. If a Miles Morales exists as a child here it's also possible this may be because of an altering of history. Miles was transplanted yes, but Miles himself would need some sort of grounding in this reality to make it at least appear as if he always existed here. For the sake of consistency in 616's reality, there is a Miles that becomes the transplant Miles to create a form of connective tissue but that's really it.

For any inconsistencies this may be the butterfly affect of so many people being transported across time and space which includes Miles. However it should also be noted that if this event was to be traveled back to it may be the instance where Miles is't present. As such going to a time when Miles wasn't present which in turn could create another divergence. It's all relevant however considering the sequencing of events and the frequency at which people time travel meaning that this in turn can be thrown away or taken as actually happening.

[Digifiend]

Answers to 1, 2, and 3. It wasn't time travel, it was Kobik. That's why Peter doesn't remember anything and explains any contradictions. You'd have known this if you read Generations: Captain America.

[Spidercide]

I'll try to answer this but I simply haven't read this.

Time travel is complicated but suffice to say is that the event where Miles met a younger Peter simply had not occurred yet within the overall timeline. So that way you can preserve this story where the two did meet earlier than Spider-men and have this continuity for later. We simply watch this event come into existence because it did not exist before Generations. If a Miles Morales exists as a child here it's also possible this may be because of an altering of history. Miles was transplanted yes, but Miles himself would need some sort of grounding in this reality to make it at least appear as if he always existed here. For the sake of consistency in 616's reality, there is a Miles that becomes the transplant Miles to create a form of connective tissue but that's really it.

For any inconsistencies this may be the butterfly affect of so many people being transported across time and space which includes Miles. However it should also be noted that if this event was to be traveled back to it may be the instance where Miles is't present. As such going to a time when Miles wasn't present which in turn could create another divergence. It's all relevant however considering the sequencing of events and the frequency at which people time travel meaning that this in turn can be thrown away or taken as actually happening.

But that still directly contradicts current stories like SPider-Men II because then that event would be altered. Same with Spider-Men I. And again...it contradicts other stories in regards to the nature of MIles' transition to the main universe. Like...Miles is fully aware he is from another universe. He and Peter both remember the incursions and the destruction of Earth and everything.

Plus the Marvel Universe time travel laws don't operate under an overwriting rule. Going back in time creates a splinter timeline but it doesn't supplant the timeline that you came from.

Also...why was Miles in 1960s clothing?

Also also it doesn't explain the alterations to ASM #33 which were happening before Peter met Miles nor does it address the fact that Spider-Men I ended with and Spider-Men II is pre-meditated upon the idea that there is zero information about anyone called Miles Morales in the MU except if Miles was always there then that wouldn't be the case. And we know Spider-Men II probably happens after Generations because a) It's still going and b) Peter is in the classic costume which he readopted during Secret Empire

[Spidercide]

Answers to 1, 2, and 3. It wasn't time travel, it was Kobik. That's why Peter doesn't remember anything and explains any contradictions. You'd have known this if you read Generations: Captain America.

Elaborate please.

From what I'm getting the living cosmic cube futzed with time to time the modern heroes a nice meeting with their pre-decessors but the latters' histories will go back to normal?

[Mister Mets]

Answers to 1, 2, and 3. It wasn't time travel, it was Kobik. That's why Peter doesn't remember anything and explains any contradictions. You'd have known this if you read Generations: Captain America.

It suggests a problem with this one-shot if you need to read another to understand the narrative, especially in a way that isn't clearly marked.

[scotty 360]

none of the generations books were time travel though it does seem like it. in the captains book sam explains its not time travel as there is no record of his life that he travelled to, it seems to be an alternative reality created by kobik so probably not an alternative universe but more an alternative situation that kobik imagines in order to help the alternative or new character.

[Spidercide]

none of the generations books were time travel though it does seem like it. in the captains book sam explains its not time travel as there is no record of his life that he travelled to, it seems to be an alternative reality created by kobik so probably not an alternative universe but more an alternative situation that kobik imagines in order to help the alternative or new character.

Yeah I just read the Captain America one shot and it clear everything up.

a) That was a great issue

b) Kobik created like...I guess a parallel timeline so the contradictions are accounted for. Which is kind of what they did with all the AUs in Secret Wars and I loved it.

See now I actually appreciate the Spider-Man Generations story way, way, way more.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Generations would be easier to explain if Miles actually was a native of 616 rather than being from 1610. Because he would be just be meeting his younger self and now he realizes what was going on that day.

And the peter portions could be explained as peter remembering and recognizing but he didn't tell miles before because he doesn't know why miles went in the past in the first place. We don't actually see Miles and Peter's first meeting from pete's perspective: what we see is just a quick gag in the first or second issue.

Note- I thought of that before i realized the cap issue gave an explanation for the jumps.

I'm not gonna bother thinking about Spider-men II because I don't care for it all. To me miles should just have been from the 616 as its just more cut and dried.

[The Negative Zone]

Personal headcanon is that some heroes were sent to an AU or Kobik erased the event to where the heroes only remember time traveling, only the memory is canon.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, the legacy heroes remember those events, but the classic heroes don't, because it never happened to them. So for Carol Danvers, she remembers encountering Mar-Vell, but she wouldn't remember having a girl called Karina (Kamala Khan in disguise) working as an intern under her at Woman Magazine.

[Cmbmool]

I have a simple answer to this question and that is that it’s Bendis as the writing helm and he has repeatedly been shown to not give any care to the overall Marvel Timeline.

[DanMad1977]

That was a 5 Dollar piece of crap...

I will ignore it.

[Spidercide]

I have a simple answer to this question and that is that it’s Bendis as the writing helm and he has repeatedly been shown to not give any care to the overall Marvel Timeline.

Yes thank you but I could work that one out for myself. I'm looking for an in universe explanation here.

it doesn't seem acceptable for bendis to casually in a Miles Morales story dismiss vital history established about Daredevil's main bad guy in a major Daredevil arc for God's sake. So what is the in-universe explanation here.