What’s the deal with Marvel Comics today?

[Mr. White]

Hey CBR Community

Been a silent comic book reader for over 25 years albeit with a few breaks. Been there through the undeniably good (Sinestro Corps War) to the undeniably bad (One More Day) and most things in between.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a “fan”. Least not in the traditional sense. I’m not team DC or team Marvel; I’m not in the Bat-god camp nor in the “we don’t like change” society. I just like good comics and by good comics, I mean well written ones. Once upon a time I was an art snob and refused to read comics that had what I perceived as “bad art” but I guess with maturity came a new appreciation for art that was “different”. Another disclaimer- I’m by no means an expert on anything- just expressing my honest opinion.

So what’s the point of this thread? Apart from venting years of pent up frustration/thoughts 😄, it’s really just to see whether there are people who share my own views regarding comics generally and more importantly to converse with such people. Of course based on probabilities there’s bound to be at least one. Well... I would hope! If there is/are similar threads covering such topics I apologize. Also this will be my sixth or seventh post ever so I apologize in advance for any breaches of protocol that may occur.

Now to the matter. What’s the deal with Marvel Comics? While this is going to be the starting point for the discussion, don’t think I don’t have similar views with DC. The only thing is that DC, with Rebirth, seem to be getting things right for the most part. This opening question came as a result of the announcement of the Weapon H (think that’s what it’s called) ongoing series. Y’know, The Hulk/Wolverine hybrid. This is clearly an experiment as to how far they can go in the house of ideas but it begs the question why they bother with such ventures? I’m not psychic, but i don’t envision it lasting “long” (though what does long mean these days? 12 issues? 18? 24?).

This got me thinking as to the possible reasons Marvel does such things and I came up with the conclusion that it has the financial war chest to do so. Take Image/Top Cow/ independents. A high number of books they publish, be it mini/maxi series or ongoing are good. I genuinely believe that because they don’t have the financial luxury to “conduct experiments” (speculating), they make sure each series it “at its best”.

On the flip side of things, one would assume that because Marvel is raking in billions (courtesy of the MCU) it would allow them to distill the number of comics they publish and allow for tighter writing and more focused story telling. So all the re-launching, changing of things (for the sake of getting new readers) etc. just comes across as an insult to fans, many of which I understand their frustration.

Another thing I don’t get with Marvel is the lack of courage it often displays. What do I mean? Let’s use One More Day. I’m sure you already see where I’m headed. The dissolution of Spider-Man/MJ marriage can only be defined as the result of not wanting a character to grow. There was a glimmer of hope with the whole Horizon Labs angle which I thought was perfect and could have led to MJ/Pete getting back together but alas that took a nosedive to be replaced with the Parker Industries “debacle” which was a bit too much and too similar to Stark. Even that came tumbling down back to basics (according to Legacy). Why take the original Logan off the board only to replace him with alternatives (Laura,Old man, Gabby) before ultimately bringing him back? Again - “fear” of progression? Let’s hear your thoughts.

This is turning into a Marvel bashing session Lol. It’s not intended.

TBH there are a variety of things Marvel has done that boggles the mind - just going to touch on a couple. Apart from Original Sin and the whisper that toppled a god, the introduction of Fury Jr. I mean if you wanted the black Nick Fury, shoulda just brought in the Ultimate version. I mean half of the ultimate characters are kicking it in 616 so why not him? It just came across as bad story telling in my view. This is irrespective of the fact that I’ve actually enjoyed his series so far. Regarding OMD - involving Mephisto is just...smh. If you wanted the marriage dissolved, aunt May should have died following the events in civil war (nothing against her), Peter beaten Fisk to an inch of his life, MJ scared of him and said needed time apart...etc. This would have allowed for a separation of the two characters and still left a window for them to come back and carry on (which is what Renee Your Vows is essentially). If they wanted an unencumbered Parker - have a separate book say like “Sensational Spider-Man”. Why sacrifice progression?

Of course i share most of your views regarding “Events”. I honestly don’t see the point. Is it to increase sales and take in money? (See thoughts on MCU and billions of $ above). I mean what happened to the days of (to name a few):
- BMB/Brubaker/Diggle on Daredevil
- Brubaker on Cap
- Fraction on Immortal Iron Fist
- Aaron on god of thunder
- Rucka on Punisher
- Ennis on Punisher (Max I know)
- Hickman on New Avengers
- Huston on Moon Knight

The above are some of the most well crafted stories, IMO and I truly miss the days of these - where stories were “self-contained” and there are no distractions of events, forceful insertions of other characters and the need to tie 5 stories together...

Wow. Guess this is what happens when you keep things bottled up for many years...

Let’s discuss.

[planetxmen]

Daredevil seems to be the only character who can swerve an event but even that isn’t guaranteed. Spider-Man doesn’t do a too bad job of it either actually.

[Hizashi]

I'd say that I share many of those views myself, as I'll ready anything that's written well. Marvel has let me down in the last few years, and I'd say their biggest problem for me is a lack of consistency and continuity.

[Mr. White]

I agree @ lack of continuity. That said, I for one will prefer if they focused less on continuity (which they do to some extent) meaning don’t let it ruin the opportunity to tell a good story. Compare BMB’s Daredevil and that of Waid’s. While there is an element of continuity, each can be read independently of each other and be enjoyed. The way I see it, the occurrence of a particular story should just be read as another adventure in the characters life. No need to say “remember when xyz occurred”? Pick and choose the relevant parts e.g. Immortal Iron Fist and Rand’s deepening of his knowledge in the use of Chi and the Book? Good. FrankenCastle? Baaad.

[Prof. Warren]

Another week, another "What's wrong with Marvel?" thread posted by a brand new member. Wow!

You'd think that anyone who genuinely wanted to bring their thoughts to the conversation would just add their thoughts to the many pre-existing threads on these boards dealing with the same exact same subject. But whatever.

And if you want to talk about great Marvel runs like these:

- BMB/Brubaker/Diggle on Daredevil
- Brubaker on Cap
- Fraction on Immortal Iron Fist
- Aaron on god of thunder
- Rucka on Punisher
- Ennis on Punisher (Max I know)
- Hickman on New Avengers
- Huston on Moon Knight

You can add:

Slott on ASM
Slott on Silver Surfer
Duggan on Deadpool
Duggan on Uncanny Avengers (and people really need to start paying more attention to his GotG run)
Aaron on The Mighty Thor
Spencer on Captain America (both Sam and Steve)
Bendis on The Defenders (maybe early to say but so far it feels like a classic run in the making)
Lemire on Old Man Logan (and now Brisson)
Brisson on Iron Fist
Thompson on Hawkeye

Also have to give a shout out to Becky Cloonan's underrated Punisher run that's due to wrap up soon and Charles Soule's also somewhat underappreciated Daredevil run.

[MajorHoy]

Unfortunately, they're trying to have this new "Legacy" push, but how much of Marvel's previous runs are still in play at all? Add in the "stealth cancelations", where we don't know if newly announced titles are expected to just be limited runs are not, but just seem to stop being published without any official word from Marvel about a "Final Issue" or not.
It's one thing for Marvel to try new things that may-or-may-not succeed with the fans, but these days Marvel seems to keep reinventing everything and quickly discarding previous runs at the drop of a hat.

[cc008]

I do miss when writers had the ability to play a long game with the character they were writing, because they knew they'd be on the book for more than 12 issues. Deadpool has had that luxury since 2012 and it seems Daredevil does right now as well. Soule doesn't plan to leave that book for a long time. Slott obviously on Amazing Spider-Man has that ability too. Jason Aaron on Thor.

But Iron Man has done through 4 writers since Marvel NOW! launched. Which is annoying. The X-Men have had countless writers and no direction. Even more annoying.

Put a creative team on each book and stick with them.

[Mr. White]

Hi Prof W - thanks for the involvement. Guess you missed the apology in advance where I referenced the other similar threads or the “to name a few” in my list of good runs. It’s understandable- I did bang on for quite a bit didn’t I? There’s “no way” there can be an exhaustive list - I agree with Lemire on OML and Thompson on Hawkeye (and Fraction). The others not really my cup o tea - doesn’t mean they’re “bad”.

But please - let’s talk more!

[Mr. White]

I agree entirely. Pick a team and let them run. Scott on Spider-Man has its ups and down. I think the issue I have is not with his writing but the over all direction he’s taking him in. Just not to my taste. As mentioned Horizon Labs (can’t remember if it was Slott)? Good move. Shoulda run with it.

[Hizashi]

And if you want to talk about great Marvel runs like these:



You can add:

Slott on ASM
Slott on Silver Surfer
Duggan on Deadpool
Duggan on Uncanny Avengers (and people really need to start paying more attention to his GotG run)
Aaron on The Mighty Thor
Spencer on Captain America (both Sam and Steve)
Bendis on The Defenders (maybe early to say but so far it feels like a classic run in the making)
Lemire on Old Man Logan (and now Brisson)
Brisson on Iron Fist
Thompson on Hawkeye

Also have to give a shout out to Becky Cloonan's underrated Punisher run that's due to wrap up soon and Charles Soule's also somewhat underappreciated Daredevil run.

I can agree with Slott's Silver Surfer, Duggan's Deadpool, and Aaron's Thor (mostly) but everything else on there is either average or plain bad. And I know that's just my opinion, but I wouldn't say any of them could be considered classics in the making.

[CaptCleghorn]

Now to the matter. What’s the deal with Marvel Comics? While this is going to be the starting point for the discussion, don’t think I don’t have similar views with DC. The only thing is that DC, with Rebirth, seem to be getting things right for the most part. This opening question came as a result of the announcement of the Weapon H (think that’s what it’s called) ongoing series. Y’know, The Hulk/Wolverine hybrid. This is clearly an experiment as to how far they can go in the house of ideas but it begs the question why they bother with such ventures? I’m not psychic, but i don’t envision it lasting “long” (though what does long mean these days? 12 issues? 18? 24?).

The above are some of the most well crafted stories, IMO and I truly miss the days of these - where stories were “self-contained” and there are no distractions of events, forceful insertions of other characters and the need to tie 5 stories together...

Wow. Guess this is what happens when you keep things bottled up for many years...

Let’s discuss.

I'm focusing on two statements you make here which to me seem contradictory. Say what you want about Rebirth, but it's a universe-wide story with series intertwisting amongst each other. Why is Saturn Girl in Arkham if she's looking for Superman? Here's Hawkman, Flash is in the Button, Dr. Fate's in Blue Beetle. A book about the JSA would be nice.

Marvel's series do a much better job of keeping to themselves. Dr Strange had a Secret Empire story but that was skippable if only interested in Strange's adventures (or you're a numeric completist). I read close to a dozen series from Marvel and love the fact that I can read Squirrel Girl and not have to worry about whatever is happening in Avengers SVU.

I've been doing this a long time. Marvel has a much wider variety of stories than DC does right now. I can read Hulk and Jessica Jones, or I can read Squirrel Girl and Hawkeye. That's comic diversity to me.

I like what Marvel's doing today. I don't like everything they put out, but I never did and I probably never will. But if they pump out enough books to keep me happy every month, that's cool.

And bring back FF and finish Miracleman and Hickman's SHIELD. I am seriously unhappy about these three points. Even the most fervent Marvel apologists are with me on these points.

[AcesX1X]

Another week, another "What's wrong with Marvel?" thread posted by a brand new member. Wow!

You'd think that anyone who genuinely wanted to bring their thoughts to the conversation would just add their thoughts to the many pre-existing threads on these boards dealing with the same exact same subject. But whatever..

come now professor, let's not be unwelcoming to our new community member. they cant be expected to know there's a state of things with marvel thread every week.

[maxhilary]

I do miss when writers had the ability to play a long game with the character they were writing, because they knew they'd be on the book for more than 12 issues. Deadpool has had that luxury since 2012 and it seems Daredevil does right now as well. Soule doesn't plan to leave that book for a long time. Slott obviously on Amazing Spider-Man has that ability too. Jason Aaron on Thor.

But Iron Man has done through 4 writers since Marvel NOW! launched. Which is annoying. The X-Men have had countless writers and no direction. Even more annoying.

Put a creative team on each book and stick with them.

I agree completely. I really wish that the more popular franchises could get longer stretches of a creative team in order to tell a more consistent and overarching story. Especially for the X-men! It just feels like their direction gets overhauled every 1-2 years. Of course the issue with this is that if fans don't warm up to that particular writer or run, then the desire for another reboot kicks in. So the question then really is what writers are the safest bets to hand the reins of a franchise to for a long time? I'm sure many would be unhappy with the prospects of 5 years of Guggenheim for X-men.

[Dangerous]

Diversity & Comics channel is fantastic and he is great at explaining the problems with current Marvel comics and praising the occasional good comic they put out these days.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrl...eT5jrQsJA/feed

[The Negative Zone]

Diversity & Comics channel is fantastic and he is great at explaining the problems with current Marvel comics and praising the occasional good comic they put out these days.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrl...eT5jrQsJA/feed

Avoid these channels like the plague, nothing to offer but bias opinions.