What’s the deal with Marvel Comics today?

[dzub]

Why do you do that? Why are you so dismissive of Mr. White's questions and conversation starter? He's new, clearly he hasn't read everything in the forums. He comes in and in a friendly manner ask people around to open a dialogue about what others think. Don't be like that.

And for the record, NOBODY has brought up the diversity (or rather race) card into the discussion. It is a judgment that is completely unnecessary IMO, and has nothing to do with what Mr. White has been saying. What I've put in bold, literally NOBODY has been saying this here in this thread (and I've never seen anyone saying this tbh).

I simply do not understand the hostility towards someone new on board here.
Yes the issues with Marvel threads are a dime a dozen these days but why be hostile when Mr.White has aired out his frustrations of the current climate in a civilized manner?
Be the change you want to see in the world, IF a more inclusive comics community is what people want, treat those who are new to it as how you would've wanted to be welcomed to when you were new.

[Mr. White]

DOING THIS ON MY COMMUTE SO THE QUOTES ARE GONNA BE MADE INLINE

*****Nah, this question's boring. Let's ask a much more important question: What is the deal with airline food?*****

At the risk of sounding like I’m giving you an education in communication, your attempt at what I perceive as wit (speculating) in your opening statement can come across as you being a little bit of [insert your choice of description]. And with that can come the complete dismiss of everything that comes subsequently, irrespective of whether there are good points or not. Thankfully (though you may not actually care) I’ve had the pleasure of interacting with a very wide range of people so I can look past such things. You DO however get points for the Seinfeld reference. And I actually like airline food for the most part. And with that, let’s go on as to why we’re here...

*****(For the record, Marvel having a lot of cash on hand actually is exactly why they try so many books. It's something that goes back all the way to the '60s, once they got out of the restriction DC put on the number of titles Marvel could publish each month.*****

Thanks for confirming my initial assumptions re. the cash. I’m not saying new things are bad. Just perhaps do a little market research. Push out another Gambit book for example. But Weapon H (or monsters unleashed)? Err...


*****It's nothing to do with the MCU, which has no financial bearing on the publishing division at all. It's a result of Marvel's publishing division simply making more money than DC's publishing division, giving Marvel that extra little bit more room to experiment.*****

Thanks for this. As I’d said - “one would assume ...”.


*****And in terms of Marvel's current quality, Black Bolt. The opening arc of Mariko Tamaki's Hulk run has stuck with me in a way few comics have, and the second arc, while less strong, was still good. I'm finding Coates' Black Panther really smart stuff. Ms. Marvel is one of the great teen hero comics. Unbeatable Squirrel Girl is an eternal delight. So is Moon Girl. Thompson's Hawkeye is stellar. All-New Wolverine is one of my all-time favourite Wolverine runs. Unbelievable Gwenpool took a stupid concept and turned it into one of the most genuinely thoughtful meta-textual comics out there. Marvel's got tons of high-quality comics. Some stuff that I would rank as being some of the highest-quality work Marvel's ever put out.*****

I know it’s hard to do (for everyone) but note that I did not say the entire Marvel line is bad. The topic stemmed from the announcement of a particular ongoing series and references to past event (If you have a moment have a quick scan of the original post). Perhaps I’m at fault for the title of the thread and use of the word “Today”.

*****But they spent two years with a black guy as Captain America so clearly everything Marvel's putting out is utter garbage that no one should read.)*****

Not sure where this is coming from but ok. Guess like most of us when you gather steam you just go. I mean just look at the original post. I for one actually liked the opening arc/ a lot of Sam’s tenure as Cap. What I had issues with is when it leaned too heavily into “politics”. On a side note, I also like RiRi as Ironheart (and a character in general) and Doom in his new suit and direction.

[Mr. White]

Why do you do that? Why are you so dismissive of Mr. White's questions and conversation starter? He's new, clearly he hasn't read everything in the forums. He comes in and in a friendly manner ask people around to open a dialogue about what others think. Don't be like that.

Chalk it up to their passion getting the better of ‘em. It happens. There’s no offense read in the responses. I’m more a “now that you’ve got that out of your system, let’s have a productive discussion.” Simple...

[Mr. White]

I simply do not understand the hostility towards someone new on board here.
Yes the issues with Marvel threads are a dime a dozen these days but why be hostile when Mr.White has aired out his frustrations of the current climate in a civilized manner?
Be the change you want to see in the world, IF a more inclusive comics community is what people want, treat those who are new to it as how you would've wanted to be welcomed to when you were new.

Check my response to Mary Jay - guess they’re passionate. Which is allowed.

[dzub]

Check my response to Mary Jay - guess they’re passionate. Which is allowed.

Peace is a Lie, there is only passion

What comics Marvel publish these days do you enjoy ?

[Mr. White]

I think folks are just tired of every little thing being questioned by Marvel that eventually leads to the attacks that we have seen.

Tiamatty is pointing out Marvel (and Dc) have been doing this for years and nobody threw fits as bad as we have seen.

Dislike for One More Day or that Clone saga did not turn into hate for other books.

Someone not having a book like Wonderman or Storm or Gambit did not turn in to a bashing and attack fest for other books like we have seen with too many books.

Fringe books like Doom Patrol, Shade, Flintstones, Future Quest & Mr Miracle are WELCOMED at DC. Same with Wildstorm and Milestone. Low sellers like New Superman are not bashed in DC. Even Milestone and Dark Matter lines are not getting bashed.

Even folks who are not reading those books PRAISE DC for making them.

DC fans attitude is if I am not reading it-I don't bash it. They do like Mr White and ask about those books. Even the issues with Duke Thomas and Black Wally have died down-at least with Duke folks are curious.

How is one allowed to do it-even with many fan favorites MIA and the other with many fan favorites coming back or around gets crapped on?

Hi Skyvolt - this isn’t a DC v Marvel thing and let us (all of us) try not to lean into it. Slippery slope I tell you. Your points (majority) are valid and the others which people may not agree with are still well received. Yeah DC has “tonnes” of books that I can “crap on”. For your personal delight, I’ll name a few: JL, JLA, New Supe, Batman (yeah I said it), blue beetle. Now despite my views and that’s exactly what they are MY views, doesn’t change how well they do or other peoples view of it. The whole point of the thread is for me to chat with like minded people about a past time we all seem to enjoy.

So let’s keep the conversation going...

[Mr. White]

Peace is a Lie, there is only passion

What comics Marvel publish these days do you enjoy ?

Haha. Yeah true.

Marvel - like the 2 alternative Iron “Men”, Nick Fury, Astonishing X-men I’m finding interesting. Stopped old man Logan when Lemire exited. Hawkeye is a fun read and Jessica Jones. That’s about it. I keep up to date from friends That read other stuff but somethings I don’t bother with at all cos they don’t suit my “palate” e.g. squirrel girl, gwenpool, Deadpool, Gen X.

To give you a sense of my tastes, I currently read - Black science, Lazarus, East of West, Southern Bastards, the Wild Storm, Thief of Thieves (though not sure what’s happened to that), The Fix.

[Dangerous]

Fair point, I suppose extremely bias and negative would be a better term.

I think *honest* would be the word you are looking for.😉

[Spiderfang]

which is what Renee Your Vows is essentially

Renee Vows for Season 10! ....err sorry just got back from Rupaul's Drag Race reddit, anyway to add to the discussion I am in a similar boat/mindset as you (except that I stan very very hard for all things Spider-Man, even the not-so-terrible 90's Clone Saga ) other than that I take to all things Marvel & DC with an open mind and try reading into new plots, characters, etc without letting surrounding opinions, biases, and toxicity (not necessarily from the CBR community, just from comic book readers/fans in general) cloud my judgment.

This may or may not be surprising but I only just recently got back into Spider-Man very recently (as of December 2016) and comic books in general, after having taken an almost 20 year-long break from collecting and reading (which halted sometime during the Clone Saga, though it was NOT because of the quality of the Clone Saga that made me quit but it was more of a financial + maturity thing, thinking because I was becoming a tween [11-12 at the time] that I was too 'big' for comicbooks).

Now the point that I'm getting to that ties into the topic at hand? Coming back to reading Marvel from an almost 20 year long hiatus makes you (at least in my experience) look at the current scenario and things you missed with fresh eyes, that is to say in my case I had no idea that the Peter Parker & Mary Jane marriage had ended (I think I had seen a news article about it back in the day maybe?) until checking out the Spider-Man sub-forum here, I had no idea who all of the new characters (Jane, Kamala, Riri, Robbie, etc) were and just assumed that it was part of the latest marketing trend and (as predicted by everyone) would (mostly) revert back to 'status quo' in a few years, depending on how popular said characters are/were.
Honestly at the time of returning to comics I had no idea there were any issues regarding Marvel or its readership, and for the most part I still kind of don't acknowledge it (I sort of blank out the vocal bickering from both sides) I did learn very very fast that Dan Slott is on board Spider-Man for the foreseeable future, and is currently one of if not 'the' least liked Spider-Man author to work for Marvel (strictly going off of replies, and comments made about the former). As far as quality of Marvel's stories go, I don't know I guess I've just been out of the comic reading game for too long and haven't been vigilant enough to detect a major shift in story and character quality of the books (though forum posts and replies have given me some indication, that is not necessarily an opinion that I share) so I guess suffice it to say that I just figured Marvel was more or less the same as it was in the 90's (back when I was reading Spider-Man 2099, Ghost Rider & Todd Mcfarlane's Spider-Man), just with different mascots for the various franchises.

[CaptCleghorn]

I think *honest* would be the word you are looking for.��

This is a hobby which has people bent on negativity as well as company apologists. With everyone's opinions, context and knowing where they're coming from is a huge help. I could say I'm the most unbiased fairest person evah, but looking at my 2000+ posts may give you a different idea of where I stand.

I don't watch any of the youtube videos. I know what I like and I am the world's undisputed expert on what comic books I like. I was decided what and what not to read almost 50 years ago. I don't need anyone else's opinion of it to justify my opinion of a book.

[crimsonspider89]

But for a complete view, also must be seen channels with a different persepective. Somebody could recommend someone? I have liked Prof. Thorgy channel.

Comic book girl, she dropped Marvel due to events and relaunches.

This channel and others like it are involved in harassment within the comic community. Those that support and promote such channels, for whatever reason, are enablers of harassment and toxicity within the comic community.

For anyone unfamiliar with these channels, do everyone a favor and avoid them.

How? He states an opinion, and roasts bad books but praises good books and good characters. He likes Moon Girl, just the PR and her in crossovers and other books is wrong.

He praises the new IP in Ewing's Avengers.

[Dayguard]

On a side note, I also like RiRi as Ironheart (and a character in general) and Doom in his new suit and direction.

Ew.

I still like most of Marvel's properties, though I've only been reading since 2013, around 2016 they became much more of a mixed bag to me. I was on board with stuff like Hydra Cap and Jane Thor. Many of their new properties were successes (for me), but I definitely see why some would hate the newer books.

Champions could really be good for instance, but not when flying around stopping... gentrification? That one issue with Gwenpool really spelled out what my issue with this had become: they were using racists performing like real racists do. I've seen that during my life, at least make them over the top!

Ms. Marvel always had the Muslim culture as a central part of her book, but she also had some pretty cool adventures. Now she's just straight boring (why was her brother ranting about terrorists being white when the situation had nothing to do with that).
Miles has become boring. Sam Alexander Nova is gone. Riri exists, even though I liked her a bit at the start. Cho is becoming better at least. Jane Thor has only gotten better from her somewhat cringy start.

Story wise, I mostly just took issue with Civil War II. Secret Empire was great for me til the end. Iceman becoming gay... eh. I just think his book is terrible but the decision itself didn't phase me. It felt like they were shilling for the Inhumans at the expense of the X-Men for a while (Cyclops did nothing wrong). Also, I've no idea why they're pushing Captain Marvel so hard, yet not giving her the best writer available. Whoever was on her book before Secret Wars needs to come back.

I regularly watch some channels like D&C and I've noticed new things about some books that are worrisome; none of it was enough to make me drop a book though.

[Yagamifire]

The deal with Marvel comics is that Marvel is full of Slott's instead of Scivers.

And that is a huge problem for the company (which will cause it to continue to dwindle)

[Dangerous]

The deal with Marvel comics is that Marvel is full of Slott's instead of Scivers.

And that is a huge problem for the company (which will cause it to continue to dwindle)

Exactly.

Marvel comics are a bad joke these days, the creators are such blind idealogues they don't respect the fans or characters thus sales figures are in the toilet. They don't want to hear the truth, but now the retailers are telling them as well.

[Dangerous]

....delete