[Serious question] Why does Dan Slott get more criticism than Straczynski

[Rincewind]

I hear that his version of OMD would have bigger changes, like resurrecting Gwen, is that correct? Any other changes? And what was his version of Sins Past?

His version of One More Day would have the past being changed going back to Amazing Spider-Man #96-98 when Harry Osborn was hooked on drugs. The change would have Peter helping Harry out, which led to Norman not killing Gwen, and with Gwen alive, Peter never married MJ. JMS's main complaint about OMD is that it did not detail what caused Peter and MJ to not marry. He didn't have any problem with the deal with Mephisto or even ending the marriage. But when people complain, he says that editorial changed his original story.

On Sins Past, he wanted Peter to be the father of Gwen's children. He also thought that the story would by retconned by OMD along with the marriage. Editorial nixed the idea of Peter being the father and suggested Norman instead. JMS went ahead with this version, but when it was criticized, he again said that editorial changed his plans.

The problem I have with this is that even if Marvel went ahead with the original version, the story would still be bad.

[Kevinroc]

I hear that his version of OMD would have bigger changes, like resurrecting Gwen, is that correct? Any other changes? And what was his version of Sins Past?

Basically, Peter would have gotten Harry to get help with his drug problems. Norman wouldn't have had his breakdown, Gwen wouldn't have died, and it would have changed all sorts of things about continuity that Marvel didn't want to think about.

Although bringing Gwen back was on the table for BND, according to Slott. The writers all promptly rejected the offer.

JMS' objections seemed to be that there was no explanation (at the time) for why Peter and MJ didn't marry. The explanation came years later as part of OMIT, which JMS was not involved with in any capacity. (Partly why JMS is able to avoid quite a bit of the backlash.)

[RedQueen]

Yeah definitely the current writer commentary. Also social media makes everything more prominent.

[Lukmendes]

His version of One More Day would have the past being changed going back to Amazing Spider-Man #96-98 when Harry Osborn was hooked on drugs. The change would have Peter helping Harry out, which led to Norman not killing Gwen, and with Gwen alive, Peter never married MJ. JMS's main complaint about OMD is that it did not detail what caused Peter and MJ to not marry. He didn't have any problem with the deal with Mephisto or even ending the marriage. But when people complain, he says that editorial changed his original story.

On Sins Past, he wanted Peter to be the father of Gwen's children. He also thought that the story would by retconned by OMD along with the marriage. Editorial nixed the idea of Peter being the father and suggested Norman instead. JMS went ahead with this version, but when it was criticized, he again said that editorial changed his plans.

The problem I have with this is that even if Marvel went ahead with the original version, the story would still be bad.

Basically, Peter would have gotten Harry to get help with his drug problems. Norman wouldn't have had his breakdown, Gwen wouldn't have died, and it would have changed all sorts of things about continuity that Marvel didn't want to think about.

Although bringing Gwen back was on the table for BND, according to Slott. The writers all promptly rejected the offer.

JMS' objections seemed to be that there was no explanation (at the time) for why Peter and MJ didn't marry. The explanation came years later as part of OMIT, which JMS was not involved with in any capacity. (Partly why JMS is able to avoid quite a bit of the backlash.)

Sounds like JMS thinks his ideas were good to begin with lol, while Gwen secretly having Peter's kids is a lot less dumber than having Norman's kids, it's still really dumb.

Thanks guys.

[blackspidey2099]

Yeah, I honestly think a lot of Slott criticism is just unfair and will change after he moves on. It's probably just what happens after a writer is on the title solo for ~10 years - the people who don't like his work will just get more and more fed up with it.

[CrimsonEchidna]

Honestly, I feel like a lot of it comes down to people having a personal axe to grind with Slott. A lot of the criticisms I feel ever since the Superior Spider-Man run, a lot of the discourse has especially been him as a person rather than the work itself.

It's one part the way Slott has engaged his critics and trolls (for good or bad depending on your stance) and another part people using him as the scapegoat for why the marriage won't come back.

[Miles To Go]

another part people using him as the scapegoat for why the marriage won't come back.

Nobody ever factors in that the marriage has always been active in some or another in spite of OMD, it's just not in the mainline books. Dan always tries to remind those fans of the hand he played in giving it a boost with RYV, and I used to hear rumblings from one fan who met him at a convention that claims he had pitched marriage comeback storylines in the past, but was vetoed several times, with RYV being the winning pitch only because of the nature of Secret Wars.

[Kevinroc]

Honestly, I feel like a lot of it comes down to people having a personal axe to grind with Slott. A lot of the criticisms I feel ever since the Superior Spider-Man run, a lot of the discourse has especially been him as a person rather than the work itself.

It's one part the way Slott has engaged his critics and trolls (for good or bad depending on your stance) and another part people using him as the scapegoat for why the marriage won't come back.

Since before Superior. But Superior was certainly a major turning point.

[Spiderfang]

Honestly, I feel like a lot of it comes down to people having a personal axe to grind with Slott. A lot of the criticisms I feel ever since the Superior Spider-Man run, a lot of the discourse has especially been him as a person rather than the work itself.

It's one part the way Slott has engaged his critics and trolls (for good or bad depending on your stance) and another part people using him as the scapegoat for why the marriage won't come back.

Which always strikes me as odd that whenever the anti-Slott posts start cropping up everything switches into a "One More Day/Brand New Day" hatefest and basically blaming him for the dissolution of the marriage (which from what I understand is because of his stance on the pro-OMD and various responses to the posters on this board), which again is an odd turn to take when you're originally either just discussing Slott's run on TASM or something else altogether.

[SignorMiracolo]

There's a lot of reasons why Slott is not popular besides the "current writer" status.

He is very popular. He made AMS the more popular Marvel book (it wasn't for a very long time until a few years ago) and it continues to be after years.

[WebLurker]

I suspect there are two, maybe three reasons, beyond Slott being the guy writing the thing (which does mean that he's the most visible target of criticism if one doesn't like the current state of ASM), why he gets the more flak than JMS has.

First of all, OMD is sore point for a lot of fans, so I think a lot of dislike for the post-OMD era gets blended with dislike for Slott's work, since he has been the main architect of the post-OMD era. Had it been someone else, I think that they still would've been on the hot seat, and I think when Slott passes the pen to someone else, if OMD is still standing, they'll probably get flak for it too.

It's not fair, obviously -- Slott didn't have anything to do with it -- and he understandably writes under that status quo since that's what the Powers That Be have decided. However, I think that the perception that he's a "true believer" in OMD and it's agenda doesn't really endear him to fans who hate that setup. (How did JMS avoid getting this monkey on his back? I think he escaped since his run was well-received before OMD and OMD itself is generally perceived as Joe Quesada's pet project, so I think the latter is thought of as the "real" author. Also, JMS's distancing himself from OMD while Quesada remains unrepentant also factors in. JMS seems like an unwilling partner, even if in reality he was onboard with the idea, just not the execution. Also, since Dan Slott picked up where OMD left off, more or less, he gets branded as a collaborator, taking on more of the OMD heat and leaving less for JMS. Had JMS continued into BND, I think he would probably have gotten a lot more flak and fan ire.)

Secondly, Dan Slott takes more risks and goes beyond the traditional confines of what Spider-Man is, while JMS stayed closer to the rules. The former is bound to generate a lot more controversy, since there are bound to be people who will argue that Slott is not being true to what Spider-Man is or that he doesn't understand the character. Personally, I firmly believe that to be true -- although that can be argued against -- however, I think the point remains that by doing things that had never been done before, you're going to run over some people's toes. Even without OMD on the table, Slott was always going to be a controversial ASM writer.

This may not play into things too much, but I think that Slott's habit of getting into fights online with fans doesn't help either. While he does get a lot of unfair crap, reacting in kind in unprofessional, does not reflect well on you. His antics were a huge factor in me not wanting to read anything with his name on it.

However, at the end of the day, I don't think the guy is the walking case of hate, anger, arrogance, or whatever his worst enemies think he is. Worst case scenario, he's just a guy who writes a comic that some people find to be very bad and runs with his mouth online. While I don't like his stuff and think he needs a filter, he doesn't deserve half of what he gets. Since being the current writer puts you in the hot seat for criticism, I think we'll need to wait until he's been off the book for awhile and heads have cooled before we know how he'll be seen in the future. (Personally, while I'm skeptical that he'll be seen as one of the greats, I don't think he'll be the dumpster fire that some are calling him now. And I'm saying this as someone who has utter antipathy for his brand of Spider-Man.)

[Kevinroc]

I don't agree with the assessment that JMS played it safe.

He wrote that Peter may have gotten his powers through magic. He had Peter become a teacher at his old high school. He had Aunt May discover the secret. He hardly ever used Peter's classic villains (with a rare exception here and there, including the VERY controversial Sins Past.) Outside of Aunt May and MJ, the classic supporting cast tended not to appear (although they, and the more traditional baddies, did appear in the satellite books.) Peter and his family moved into Avengers Tower (while Spidey joining the Avengers was out of JMS' hands, actually moving in with them was JMS' idea.)

This wasn't exactly a "play it safe" run.

[WebLurker]

I don't agree with the assessment that JMS played it safe.

He wrote that Peter may have gotten his powers through magic. He had Peter become a teacher at his old high school. He had Aunt May discover the secret. He hardly ever used Peter's classic villains (with a rare exception here and there, including the VERY controversial Sins Past.) Outside of Aunt May and MJ, the classic supporting cast tended not to appear (although they, and the more traditional baddies, did appear in the satellite books.) Peter and his family moved into Avengers Tower (while Spidey joining the Avengers was out of JMS' hands, actually moving in with them was JMS' idea.)

This wasn't exactly a "play it safe" run.

Maybe a blanket statement, but in comparison, JMS feels safer than Slott. Most of the stuff you described seems like reasonable extensions of the core mythology. Conversely, I can't see how stuff like Superior, Parker Industries, and Spider-Verse has anything to do with what Spider-Man is, when you get down to the bare essentials. Your milage may vary, of course.

However, once again, JMS has left the series for awhile now. We can compare the full run with what came before and what came after. That would impact readers impressions of how it turned out, like I'm sure that time will change how we see Slott (now, it looks like the unconventional 24/7, after he leaves, it might seem more like a detour or something).

[comicscollector]

I would say as well that is debatable as well because while JMS was writing Amazing Spider-Man there were not as many comic books forums as there were after Dan Slott started writing Spider-Man comics.
And as comic books forums are many times a echo chamber of negativity so to speak thus it may explain Dan Slott aparently having more critics.

[Kevinroc]

Maybe a blanket statement, but in comparison, JMS feels safer than Slott. Most of the stuff you described seems like reasonable extensions of the core mythology. Conversely, I can't see how stuff like Superior, Parker Industries, and Spider-Verse has anything to do with what Spider-Man is, when you get down to the bare essentials. Your milage may vary, of course.

However, once again, JMS has left the series for awhile now. We can compare the full run with what came before and what came after. That would impact readers impressions of how it turned out, like I'm sure that time will change how we see Slott (now, it looks like the unconventional 24/7, after he leaves, it might seem more like a detour or something).

It's all a matter of perspective.

BND started out trying to create new villains for Spidey to fight before bringing back the classics. But once the classics came back, they clearly received the most emphasis. A large part of Slott's run used Doctor Octopus. You can try to put a fresh coat of paint on it, but it doesn't get more traditional than a Spider-Man vs. Doctor Octopus story.

Conversely, JMS' ASM run was a love story between Peter and MJ. And THAT'S a pretty traditional Spidey story that has been done before as well.