Wonder Woman 32 Discussion and Spoilers

[Kalethas31]

jason look nice
Jason_Prime_Earth_002.jpg

[Gaelforce]

Considering the circumstances of her birth was never mentioned during the run... why would it come back all of a sudden?

Because the original Amazons and the original contest returned, and the Azzarello Amazons were shown to be lies. If Azzarello's Hippolyta, the *only* one to have slept with Zeus, never really existed, the implication was that the clay origin had returned.

[brettc1]

I've gotta be honest... I didn't like it.

As a whole I found it to be quite dull and slightly boring. The bits with Blake Hooper were just so yawn-inducing for me (though I read it quickly so I probably missed something important).

The Steve/Diana dialogue was strange. I liked Diana having a bit of fun with Steve saying he usually saves her (at least I hope that was a joke on her part), but Steve seems to be grossly out of character. I don't like when they have to point out the fact that Steve is a man yet in the stereotypically "feminine" role. It doesn't need to be stated, we as readers already know the role he plays.

Dr. Peril? A supervillain in the making? Seriously, that name is pretty odd.

As for Jason, I highly doubt that is the real Jason. If it is, that dialogue at the end was incredibly off, even by comic book standards. Also that mullet has got to go.

The art was a step down from last issue's, as well.

I think ultimately, the more I think about it, the more sour I get that they found it a good time to rewind and go back to a New 52 story arc when the whole point of Rebirth is to go back to basics with the characters and stories. Rucka had already established several fantastic stories, yet they're completely gone now (at least for almost a year). What happened to Doctor Cyber? Is Veronica Cale still stewing in her hatred for Diana? Where the heck did Cheetah run off to? Have Dave, Manny, and Chris been completely replaced by Charlie, Sameer, and Chief? There's just so many unresolved threads yet they chose to go with Darkseid War, which didn't seem to be that popular of a story arc to begin with (for the record, I enjoyed it).

I didn't think much of it either.

When would anyone feel the need to say that Lois Lane is only there for eye candy? That never even comes up in the movie, mostly because they constantly find ways to make Steve useful while not undermining Diana as the lead. But again, most of that is about him doing things that Diana is not as good at - like spying and piloting. It just feels like he is being wasted at the moment.

I'm not real sold on the whole Jason storyline for starters, and it seems to have nothing to do with the rebirth arc. Dark haired Hippolyta had a twin and sent him off the island? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me at this point. And if the Hercules story with the Amazons is as it has been in the past that would mean that Diana's half brother sexually assaulted her mother.

Which is just seriously messed up.

The action felt kind of ho-hum and I was not real impressed with Hercule Poirot either.

[brettc1]

I think the problem with writing dialogue for Diana and Steve is that there's no, and I mean 'ZERO', of the kind of sexual and political tension between them that makes classic pairings, like Superman and Lois ..or Han and Leia so interesting to us. There's nothing here, bristling with uncertainty - no exchange, in which the lovers are fumbling around for each other's boundaries or switching roles...shifting strength between them, when it's needed. There's no uncertainty, regarding the risks they take win each other's favor - will they be rewarded for them, or have they doomed any hope of love, between them? Everything is resolved between them, and each knows their place, and that's boring.

Steve is a eunuch, who worships his superhero lover, with unending praise and deference. That's his place, and he seems fatally comfy, there. It's not even cute in a rom-com sort of way, ..and Robinson tried really hard to make it cute and funny.

I think Mr. Azzarello did a much finer job, with Orion and Diana. Some of us fans hated that Orion wasn't deferential enough to Diana - don't know why he should be, truthfully - but, what was going on between them was infinitely more interesting, than what's going on with Steve and Diana. Under everyone, but, Rucka, who actually made them mildly interesting, they're a flavorless mayo sandwich, with no meat or chipotle.

While I dont agree with the Orion part, the rest is pretty much spot on.

I am getting towards the end of 60 hours of the show "Chuck" and even when the nerd gets together with his super-spy romantic interest Sarah Walker the writers found ways to keep you guessing. If all Steve is going to do is follow Diana around like a loyal puppy and never have an opinion of his own this will get old real fast.

Once again (and I don't know how it happened), Steve Trevor is not a man. He's a Ken doll. All he is now is a patronizing reflection of his lover's reality and ambitions - a total eunuch...boring!

It happened because he is not being written as a character so much as a prop.

Movie Steve had a back story, a mission, and a world view all his own. The current comic book version lacks all of those things. You could easily believe that he only really exists when Diana is around, and when she isn't he just stands in a cupboard until he needs to be brought out again.

[RealWonderman]

Movie Steve had a back story, a mission, and a world view all his own. The current comic book version lacks all of those things. You could easily believe that he only really exists when Diana is around, and when she isn't he just stands in a cupboard until he needs to be brought out again.

It's almost as if we are to just 'know' that this Steve is 'movie Steve' and like him accordingly...or something...

[RealWonderman]

Because the original Amazons and the original contest returned, and the Azzarello Amazons were shown to be lies. If Azzarello's Hippolyta, the *only* one to have slept with Zeus, never really existed, the implication was that the clay origin had returned.

It feels like Robinson is picking up after Azz run and Darkseid War, completely skipping Rucka's run. Like DC just changed their minds...because it seemed obvious to me that Rucka had ditched the Zeus origin et al with 'The Lies.'

I'm not pleased, but I am leaning in with curiosity, rather than irritation and disappointment.

[AmiMizuno]

Dc always has done that with Diana. Never knowing what run to go back. This is why she needs her own editor and Rucka should have come after the Jason arc

[Dr. Poison]

It feels like Robinson is picking up after Azz run and Darkseid War, completely skipping Rucka's run. Like DC just changed their minds...because it seemed obvious to me that Rucka had ditched the Zeus origin et al with 'The Lies.'

I'm not pleased, but I am leaning in with curiosity, rather than irritation and disappointment.

I don't think that's entirely true. In a recent interview, Robinson gave heavy praise to Rucka's recent run(along with Perez & Jimenez's runs) and said he was following up on that. He has also confirmed that Steve is currently part of the Navy and just helping out A.R.G.U.S. temporarily.

[Outside_85]

Because the original Amazons and the original contest returned, and the Azzarello Amazons were shown to be lies. If Azzarello's Hippolyta, the *only* one to have slept with Zeus, never really existed, the implication was that the clay origin had returned.

Thats a pretty far reaching assumption when the subject is never discussed. And still pretty weird when the comics were and still are falling in line with the movie version.

[RealWonderman]

I don't think that's entirely true. In a recent interview, Robinson gave heavy praise to Rucka's recent run(along with Perez & Jimenez's runs) and said he was following up on that. He has also confirmed that Steve is currently part of the Navy and just helping out A.R.G.U.S. temporarily.

Even so, praise or not, what's happening in the book is skipping what Rucka was establishing...that the New 52 Amazons, et al...which would include the adulterous Hippolyta, Zeus origin, and therefore Jason...is now being ignored. Somewhere along the road the PTB changed their minds or something.

[RealWonderman]

Thats a pretty far reaching assumption when the subject is never discussed. And still pretty weird when the comics were and still are falling in line with the movie version.

It's not a reach at all, since we were told that the Amazon Queen that had an affair with Zeus never existed. Period. Therefore, Diana's original origin would be the only origin. It seems pretty obvious that Rucka intended one thing, and executed it, and someone changed their minds, and decided to ignore it. It was a golden opportunity to clean things up, and now it's getting worse.

[Outside_85]

Even so, praise or not, what's happening in the book is skipping what Rucka was establishing...that the New 52 Amazons, et al...which would include the adulterous Hippolyta, Zeus origin, and therefore Jason...is now being ignored. Somewhere along the road the PTB changed their minds or something.

As if they were just going to leave Darkseid as a baby and not do a story about that and Grail?

It's not a reach at all, since we were told that the Amazon Queen that had an affair with Zeus never existed. Period. Therefore, Diana's original origin would be the only origin. It seems pretty obvious that Rucka intended one thing, and executed it, and someone changed their minds, and decided to ignore it. It was a golden opportunity to clean things up, and now it's getting worse.

It is a reach when nothing has been said or done about it. You can't just assume everything changes in comics because of one thing, unless that thing specifically changes it and you are actually shown it changes it. Diana was always the daughter of Zeus in Rucka's run, the only difference was that Hippolyta had a different hair color.

[Miles To Go]

I enjoyed it, very much in agreement with Sacred's points.

I don't see the conversations between Steve and Diana as "boring"...this feels very much like what I prefer to see in comic book couples...good strong durability, getting along, no real tension or strife. It's pretty welcoming. Lois and Clark have their appeal due in part to Lois complimenting Clark with her fiestinees, but two people with less drama and more love and loyalty to one another can mesh just as well...I also come to WW books for something a little different than her love life anyway, so the stability doesn't easily bore me.

[RealWonderman]

As if they were just going to leave Darkseid as a baby and not do a story about that and Grail?



It is a reach when nothing has been said or done about it. You can't just assume everything changes in comics because of one thing, unless that thing specifically changes it and you are actually shown it changes it. Diana was always the daughter of Zeus in Rucka's run, the only difference was that Hippolyta had a different hair color.

Never said anything about Darkseid or Grail. That story could have been part of the retcon-or-whatever-the-hell-rebirth-warped-into, or not. It should have been handled elsewhere or ignored. All it is now is a way to completely f-up Diana's story, which was re-established by Rucka, apparently, only to be ignored, or retconned. And in his story, the 'ONE THING' that changed was that the Queen who had the affair with Zeus never existed, neither did her friends, her murderous siren Amazons, the boy children who were left to Hephaestus, etc...regardless of hair color...she did not exist, so how could her twin children exist...it makes no sense now.

The whole thing has been made clear as mud now.

[Astroman]

I don't think that's entirely true. In a recent interview, Robinson gave heavy praise to Rucka's recent run(along with Perez & Jimenez's runs) and said he was following up on that. He has also confirmed that Steve is currently part of the Navy and just helping out A.R.G.U.S. temporarily.

I agree. And, I still think (I made this point a month or so ago in another thread) that we are seeing the same kind of 'coalescing' of New 52, Pre-Flashpoint, Rebirth, etc. realities.

Kinda like in Superman where right after Rebirth we had two Supes and now we have only one, with a somewhat merged history that seems contradictory in some ways if you look at it too closely. We just got to see all that get played out on the page in Action and Superman.

With Diana, we have Geoff Johns' plans (which I don't ever think went away despite Rucka's storyline) for Jason, the Zeus parentage, reconciling with whatever pre-Flashpoint history they settle upon (and I choose the word 'settle' because I think we are seeing continuity 'objects' settling after the Rebirth 'reality quake') , aspects of the New 52 (like a young Steve), and Rucka's 'Lies' - but we aren't seeing this being addressed on page the way we did with Supes.

Add to that that Rucka seemed to have not really his own sandbox, but a sub-sandbox that still had to fit into Johns' larger plans for Diana, Rebirth, Doomsday Clock, etc... and I'm not sure Rucka's mini sandbox was really that in synch with the larger DC sandbox.