Enormous flaws in classic stories

[JackDaw]

We all know that such judgments are very subjective. And in particular what irritates one reader will leave another untroubled. In my case I tend to be less troubled than most by favourite heroes being written out of character...but maybe more picky than most about happenings that just don't stand up to scrutiny.

But I do think some acclaimed Marvel classics have flaws that would lead to widespread derision in almost any other form of fiction.

Take two examples: Spider-man's origin story and "This Man...This Monster" from the great Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four run.

Spoilers...IF you're one of the dozen fans that haven't read those classic yarns.

In the Spider-man origin story...there is simply no even remotely sensible rationale for the near instant invention of the web fluid. There was nothing in Peter's new power-set that gave any credible explanation for him being able to concoct that miraculous substance from common household ingredients in about 5 minutes flat.

And if it was sort of thing he could do...then it made next ten years of stories (when he was grubbing around for money, taking photos, etc) near farcical. Just invent something else and sell it! Lot better in my view to make the webs something his own body created.

In "This Man..This Monster", the scene where the real Ben confronts the fake Thing in front of rest of the Fantastic Four is feeble beyond belief. Reed...allegedly the most intelligent man on the planet...didn't think to ask Ben or the the fake Thing a single question to establish their identity?? You know something like "What was my favourite record when we roomed at Uni together?" or some such. Come on..nobody...can be that stupid, least of all Reed.

Agree/ disagree? (Either about those examples. Or the general premise that we accept writing in comics that we wouldn't accept in other media.)

[Kuwagaton]

With Spider-Man, I'm not sure if it's a flaw. I guess you could call it bad writing. He invented the webbing because he's really smart. That's basically it. Inventing other things is a pretty glaring flaw, though. He could probably have invented other things for money, as he invented things commonly to defeat his enemies. In defense of some of that, though, without inspiration it's hard to say exactly what.

They tried to explain that Cap was frozen by ice cold water and that the serum helped him survive the suspended animation, but not quite how he managed to avoid drowning before he could freeze.

[ChronoRogue]

Wolverine stabbing Rachel to keep her from killing Selene, in an effort to teach her... killing is wrong? lol Also ironic in hindsight, considering what he's become.

[Huntsman Spider]

With Spider-Man, I'm not sure if it's a flaw. I guess you could call it bad writing. He invented the webbing because he's really smart. That's basically it. Inventing other things is a pretty glaring flaw, though. He could probably have invented other things for money, as he invented things commonly to defeat his enemies. In defense of some of that, though, without inspiration it's hard to say exactly what.

They tried to explain that Cap was frozen by ice cold water and that the serum helped him survive the suspended animation, but not quite how he managed to avoid drowning before he could freeze.

With Spider-Man/Peter, I think it could be explained that while he might have been incredibly intelligent and inventive in certain areas, that didn't necessarily extend to him having business savvy. Considering how many inventors throughout history have been screwed by greedy businessmen (hell, even Vulture started out as an inventor who was screwed by his business partner, and Norman Osborn did the same thing to Mendel Stromm), it's likely that he didn't want to take that chance with his inventions, no matter how desperate for money he was. That's something I could see a more modern reinterpretation of Spider-Man tackling, especially in light of how socially isolated Peter was back then.

[Zero Hunter]

Wolverine stabbing Rachel to keep her from killing Selene, in an effort to teach her... killing is wrong? lol Also ironic in hindsight, considering what he's become.

That will always stand as one of the dumbest moments in X-Men history.

[Michael Watkins]

the era specific stereotyping of female characters, in most of those classic stories. it's a little cringeworthy upon rereading.

[gurkle]

The Kang Dynasty: Kang takes over the world, wipes out millions of people including the entire population of Washington D.C., and yet not a single Avenger dies. The only major good-guy fatality is Duane Freeman, the Avengers liason who the writer had created back at the beginning of the run.

I'm not saying heroes always need to die, but if you're trying to do a more serious story about a supervillain really waging war, and have millions of civilian deaths, then it's hard to take it seriously when the costumed heroes remain invincible. That just exposes "wiping out a city" as a device to make it look like there are serious consequences, when there really aren't.

[Huntsman Spider]

The Kang Dynasty: Kang takes over the world, wipes out millions of people including the entire population of Washington D.C., and yet not a single Avenger dies. The only major good-guy fatality is Duane Freeman, the Avengers liason who the writer had created back at the beginning of the run.

I'm not saying heroes always need to die, but if you're trying to do a more serious story about a supervillain really waging war, and have millions of civilian deaths, then it's hard to take it seriously when the costumed heroes remain invincible. That just exposes "wiping out a city" as a device to make it look like there are serious consequences, when there really aren't.

"Serious consequences," except for the ones who "really matter." Yeah, and it's gotten even worse since then.