Resolving The Cyclops/Jean Grey/Wolverine Love Triangle Discussion

[TheSupernaut]

Wow I did not expect OP's solution at all.

[Hizashi]

I think that has a lot to do with why people don't want her with Scott. Jean was always waiting for Scott to deal with whatever emotional crisis he happened to be going through at any given time before their relationship could move to the next level. Unfortunately for Jean it was exactly this conflicted and moody nature that seemed to attract her to Scott in the first place.

This is why the Tyke\Jeen dynamic is so much different. Tyke doesn't seem to have quite the same level of hang ups but this time around Jeen is the much more tepid one about moving their relationship to the next level. It very much a role reversal of the classic relationship. That's actually true about nearly every aspect of Tyke\Jeen. The roles have been completely reversed from the 60's depiction of the two characters, especially in blue. Jeen is the take charge leader struggling with her personal choices while Tyke is more emotionally connected and has a tendency to be ineffective in combat.

Yeah, you make some good points. Personally, I don't want Jeen/Tyke either.

[MarvelMaster616]

jean and scott were both equally important characters, their relationship was one of equals. sadly marvel doesn't like good, epic and healthy romances

they prefer relationships of one character with other character being a pet
emma was an accessory for scott and i think if they pair jean with jimmy he will become and accessory for jean

im sure adult jean will dominate whoever she is paired

That's another element that's worth pointing out. Marvel, by and large, doesn't really care much for stable relationships and for good reason (in their eyes). They're stable. Ever since the early 2000s, Marvel has adopted a policy that a stable relationship HAS to be shaken up. It can't just be allowed to blossom, as meaningful romances tend to do. Now, I don't agree with that sentiment. I think it's a gross misapplication of romance, especially for a mythos that has so many iconic romances, of which Cyclops/Jean certainly quality. But I can understand on some levels why they do it.

That gives all the more reason to try my solution. It's not inherently stable. It's very different and prone to more complications. Marvel seems to love complications, especially when it comes to romance. They haven't really done many new or bold things since they married off Northstar. This could be something new and different that didn't rely on the same frustrating/toxic elements of the Cyclops/Jean/Wolverine love triangle.

I get that most on this thread don't agree that my solution is viable or good. I respect that. But I still believe it's an idea that warrants consideration. Everything else about this love triangle tends to devolve into angry shipping wars. If there's a potential method for those people to have their cake and eat it too, why not consider it?

[Ulfhammer]

That's another element that's worth pointing out. Marvel, by and large, doesn't really care much for stable relationships and for good reason (in their eyes). They're stable. Ever since the early 2000s, Marvel has adopted a policy that a stable relationship HAS to be shaken up. It can't just be allowed to blossom, as meaningful romances tend to do. Now, I don't agree with that sentiment. I think it's a gross misapplication of romance, especially for a mythos that has so many iconic romances, of which Cyclops/Jean certainly quality. But I can understand on some levels why they do it.

That gives all the more reason to try my solution. It's not inherently stable. It's very different and prone to more complications. Marvel seems to love complications, especially when it comes to romance. They haven't really done many new or bold things since they married off Northstar. This could be something new and different that didn't rely on the same frustrating/toxic elements of the Cyclops/Jean/Wolverine love triangle.

I get that most on this thread don't agree that my solution is viable or good. I respect that. But I still believe it's an idea that warrants consideration. Everything else about this love triangle tends to devolve into angry shipping wars. If there's a potential method for those people to have their cake and eat it too, why not consider it?

Honestly if I was to put my finger on the biggest problem I have with your solution, it's that it takes away from the fundamental purity of Scott and Jean's relationship. I'm sure I'm going to be tar'd and feathered for this but I'm but I'm positive this is the root of my problem. I had the same problem with what Morrison did with Scott and Emma. Despite all the setbacks faced by the pair there was a certain innocence if you will to them as a couple prior to Emma and the affair. I know that's not universally true and my opinion may have something to do with my age when I read 80's x-men (I was pretty young) but that's how they came off to me.

Your solution kind of feels like an institutionalized threesome which I get is an oversimplification. There's something to be said for how sacred an experience exclusivity between two people can be that I think would be detrimental to my head canon of what Scott and Jean were about if your solution was ever implemented. I guess it's an old fashion notion and I can fully except that some people may want to live this way in the real world but given the subjective nature of being a comic book fan I think I can safely express my opinion... hopefully.

[Hizashi]

Honestly if I was to put my finger on the biggest problem I have with your solution, it's that it takes away from the fundamental purity of Scott and Jean's relationship. I'm sure I'm going to be tar'd and feathered for this but I'm but I'm positive this is the root of my problem. I had the same problem with what Morrison did with Scott and Emma. Despite all the setbacks faced by the pair there was a certain innocence if you will to them as a couple prior to Emma and the affair. I know that's not universally true and my opinion may have something to do with my age when I read 80's x-men (I was pretty young) but that's how they came off to me.

Your solution kind of feels like an institutionalized threesome which I get is an oversimplification. There's something to be said for how sacred an experience exclusivity between two people can be that I think would be detrimental to my head canon of what Scott and Jean were about if your solution was ever implemented. I guess it's an old fashion notion and I can fully except that some people may want to live this way in the real world but given the subjective nature of being a comic book fan I think I can safely express my opinion... hopefully.

I agree, you put it better, but Jean and Scott (hell, even Logan) would be out of character in such a relationship. I don't see any of them being able to make a polyamourous relationship work. And again, it would very easily just become "Jean has two boyfriends".

[spirit2011]

jean and scott were both equally important characters, their relationship was one of equals. sadly marvel doesn't like good, epic and healthy romances

they prefer relationships of one character with other character being a pet
emma was an accessory for scott and i think if they pair jean with jimmy he will become and accessory for jean

im sure adult jean will dominate whoever she is paired

Jimmy could only wish to be a accessory for jeen. There isn't much for the character

[Hizashi]

Jimmy could only wish to be a accessory for jeen. There isn't much for the character

We can agree here, Jimmy could be more useful elsewhere. I liked his relationship with the Kitty Pride of 1610.

[DreadnoughtHelldiver]

I think that the whole love triangles trope is played out. There is enough drama that can be created without resorting to this overdone plotline. Why not allow them to just be separate characters not playing off of each other and not in a relationship. If anything let Jean be free of a relationship right now. Same with Logan and the really the same with Scott.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

There's only a triangle if Scott is alive and around, otherwise there's no triangle and such...people want Jean to stay single until Scott comes back and then be with him again it seems...

[Disciple of Redd]

There's only a triangle if Scott is alive and around, otherwise there's no triangle and such...people want Jean to stay single until Scott comes back and then be with him again it seems...

And there's the truth.

There needn't be a triangle at all. Particularly since one guy already decided he was done with Jean romantically even though he would always love her during the Morrison run. Then he died by the time she's come back.

This problem has effectively been solved twice, and by the books themselves instead of corny fanfics.

Lol what triangle?

[Hizashi]

And there's the truth.

There needn't be a triangle at all. Particularly since one guy already decided he was done with Jean romantically even though he would always love her during the Morrison run. Then he died by the time she's come back.

This problem has effectively been solved twice, and by the books themselves instead of corny fanfics.

Lol what triangle?

Okay, but what do you and LoganAlpha30X33 say to people like me who don't want them to get back together but do want the narratively logical step of Jean having to come to terms with Scott's actions and his death? He has to play a huge role in her life, initially at least, there's much to address.

[Disciple of Redd]

Okay, but what do you and LoganAlpha30X33 say to people like me who don't want them to get back together but do want the narratively logical step of Jean having to come to terms with Scott's actions and his death? He has to play a huge role in her life, initially at least, there's much to address.

What actions? Any bad stuff was blamed on other characters, ProfX is coming back, thank goodness, and Scott basically all but told Jean to **** off before she died. Sure she should be sad he's dead or whatever, but unless they are doing away with the "watching from the white hot room" thing she's already aware of that.

I'm mostly interested in what she will be doing with whatever characters she's in the midst of going forward rather than a revision on how the Morrison run ended when she effectively moved on from that for the literal good of reality at the end of that run. Supposedly they have big plans for her being back. Should be pretty interesting to see.

[Hizashi]

What actions? Any bad stuff was blamed on other characters, ProfX is coming back, thank goodness, and Scott basically all but told Jean to **** off before she died. Sure she should be sad he's dead or whatever, but unless they are doing away with the "watching from the white hot room" thing she's already aware of that.

I'm mostly interested in what she will be doing with whatever characters she's in the midst of going forward rather than a revision on how the Morrison run ended when she effectively moved on from that for the literal good of reality at the end of that run. Supposedly they have big plans for her being back. Should be pretty interesting to see.

Has Marvel referenced the events of Endsong or Warsong? If so, you have a point about the WHR, but if not, whoever the blame falls on, Cyclops did things I'm sure Jean wouldn't have thought him willing to do before. And if you say that the conclusion to HCT proves Jean herself moved past Scott, shouldn't she also then have to address pushing him to Emma?

There's more, but what I'm trying to say is that ultimately, regardless of how their relationship ended or what it will ultimately become, there's plenty that needs to be talked about amongst her and the X-Men.

Need one more? Why was the superhero community so ready to vilify or kill Scott for Dark Phoenix when they didn't do the same with Jean? She should have questions about that.

[CuteClops]

Need one more? Why was the superhero community so ready to vilify or kill Scott for Dark Phoenix when they didn't do the same with Jean? She should have questions about that.

Oh, she's an Avenger now. Then everything will be forgiven. She could kill somebody, commit genocide, whatever... it doesn't matter. The Avengers will always be heroes.

"Marvel Is Breathing New Life, & A New Purpose Into the Phoenix" (from cbr)

http://www.cbr.com/marvel-legacy-res...rce-jean-grey/

"Through its long history in the Marvel Universe, the Phoenix has more often than not been portrayed as a force of destruction, a cosmic entity hellbent on destroying life. It is a power feared as much as it is revered. In storylines like the classic Dark Phoenix Saga and the much more recent event Avengers vs. X-Men, the Phoenix was a danger to all, the ultimate force of annihilation in the universe.

Once again, this points to the fact that the Phoenix can be a force for good. Whatever threat these Avengers will face, it is one that even she will fight. If she so chooses to side with these superheroes, it must be because she fights on the side of good, of life.


As we head into this new era of Marvel Comics, we could be looking at a whole new Phoenix, reborn from its ashes into something else. Something, ultimately, good."

[Hizashi]

Oh, she's an Avenger now. Then everything will be forgiven. She could kill somebody, commit genocide, whatever... it doesn't matter. The Avengers will always be heroes.

"Marvel Is Breathing New Life, & A New Purpose Into the Phoenix" (from cbr)

http://www.cbr.com/marvel-legacy-res...rce-jean-grey/

That makes me sick.