Superman Weaknesses

[magha_regulus]

I was recently thinking about this trend to give Superman more weaknesses than the usually three vulnerabilites he has to kryptonite, red sun radiation, and magic. In Geoff Johns' Justice Leage God War arc he had Superman start to lose his powers on Apokalips because of a lack of yellow sun light. I thought this innovation was interesting but I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. Its another example of Superman receiving new weakenesses. Running out of power because of a lack of sunlight seems a bit off to me but I could see it working in some respects if Superman is having to expend a great deal of energy in those conditions. I do like the idea of him being poisoned by absrobing energy from the fire-pits of Apokalips though.

Tangetially, though related, I have never liked the idea of teleportation devices working on Superman. He should be too invulnerable for a teleportation device to be able to break down and reassemble his molecular structure.

What do folks think?

[HeroVladimir93]

This might be controversial but I think Kryptonite has long outstayed its welcome in the Superman mythos. I know that it's become synonymous with Achilles heel in pop culture, but the fact that random baddies just need a small piece of Kryptonite to even the odds against Superman has become, in my opinion, annoying and ridiculous. To be fair on DC, the authors have limited the presence of Kryptonite in the Superman mythos by making it rare and hard to find, but that's a temporary solution. In my opinion, either Superman should become permanently immune to Kryptonite or all Kryptonite in the universe should be permanently destroyed.

In The Third Kryptonian story arc, Batman expressed his opinions that red sunlight didn't drain Superman's powers. It merely blocked his ability to absorb yellow sunlight to replenish his powers.

That vulnerability to transporters is too weird, even by comic book standards. It makes no sense.

[Kuwagaton]

Huh? I wouldn't have thought using teleportation to be called a weakness. It's kind of an advantage if you think of an easy situation where he needs to transport instantly. Like if he needs to travel with someone through space.

Superman hadn't previously lost his powers on Apokolips. He was there at the beginning of this year or so and that wasn't a problem. I wonder what kind of light Johns believes that planet to have.

Kryptonite is a tough one. Personally I like the years it was gone as much as I like the years it came back. Bendis just had a c list character brandish it, and it still worked for me.

[Vordan]

This might be controversial but I think Kryptonite has long outstayed its welcome in the Superman mythos. I know that it's become synonymous with Achilles heel in pop culture, but the fact that random baddies just need a small piece of Kryptonite to even the odds against Superman has become, in my opinion, annoying and ridiculous. To be fair on DC, the authors have limited the presence of Kryptonite in the Superman mythos by making it rare and hard to find, but that's a temporary solution. In my opinion, either Superman should become permanently immune to Kryptonite or all Kryptonite in the universe should be permanently destroyed.

In The Third Kryptonian story arc, Batman expressed his opinions that red sunlight didn't drain Superman's powers. It merely blocked his ability to absorb yellow sunlight to replenish his powers.

That vulnerability to transporters is too weird, even by comic book standards. It makes no sense.

I’ve been in favor of doing away with Kryptonite for everyone except Lex. I’d have Metallo for instance, be able to hurt Superman simply due to being a cyborg or because he’s made of “Metal-0”. Kryptonite is lame because Supes instantly kneels over whenever it shows up. There’s no fight just him flopping like a soccer player.

[Hypestyle]

I was recently thinking about this trend to give Superman more weaknesses than the usually three vulnerabilites he has to kryptonite, red sun radiation, and magic. In Geoff Johns' Justice Leage God War arc he had Superman start to lose his powers on Apokalips because of a lack of yellow sun light. I thought this innovation was interesting but I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. Its another example of Superman receiving new weakenesses. Running out of power because of a lack of sunlight seems a bit off to me but I could see it working in some respects if Superman is having to expend a great deal of energy in those conditions. I do like the idea of him being poisoned by absrobing energy from the fire-pits of Apokalips though.

Tangetially, though related, I have never liked the idea of teleportation devices working on Superman. He should be too invulnerable for a teleportation device to be able to break down and reassemble his molecular structure.

What do folks think?

In the first Superman/Aliens crossover (Dan Jurgens), Superman was stranded on an isolated colony without a nearby sun/star. His power gradually dwindled and he was more vulnerable to attacks.

[Francisco]

I preffer Kryptonite to be Superman's single weakness. And extended exposure Kryptonite should be lethal to humans as well. Magic should be harmful to Superman only if it is abstract magic specifically targeted against him. By instance a sword or weapon magically endowed with the power to kill any man shouldn't be able to kill Superman because he is not even human. But a powerful magician/sorcerer should be able to create a sword with the power to kill Superman. His invulnerability should make him immune to vampire bites and werewolf claws simply because he is bullet proof and vampire teeth altough mystically modified are just teeth a bit longer and stronger than normal human teeth but they are both made of the same material which is a lot weaker than kryptonian flesh. The same applies to the mesmerizing powers of vampires and other supernatural cratures. They shouldn't be more effective than the psionic powers of metahumans and aliens.

Superman has been several times to both places: NEW GENESIS AND APOKOLIPS and he never lost his powers even though he fought both Orion and Darkseid and flew around for hours.

And Batman shouldn't know more about Superman's powers than Superman himself.

Red Sunlight shouldn't be a weakness just a wavelenght that doesn't carry enough energy to powerup Superman. It doesn't drain him, it doesn't hurt him at all. It simply doesn't make up for an efficient power source.

Want to kill Superman? Kryptonite, giant robots or someone or something with great power. Someone or something that can punch him over and over beating the life out of him.

[Ascended]

I was recently thinking about this trend to give Superman more weaknesses than the usually three vulnerabilites he has to kryptonite, red sun radiation, and magic. In Geoff Johns' Justice Leage God War arc he had Superman start to lose his powers on Apokalips because of a lack of yellow sun light. I thought this innovation was interesting but I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. Its another example of Superman receiving new weakenesses. Running out of power because of a lack of sunlight seems a bit off to me but I could see it working in some respects if Superman is having to expend a great deal of energy in those conditions. I do like the idea of him being poisoned by absrobing energy from the fire-pits of Apokalips though.

Tangetially, though related, I have never liked the idea of teleportation devices working on Superman. He should be too invulnerable for a teleportation device to be able to break down and reassemble his molecular structure.

What do folks think?

First, disregard anything Geoff Johns does with Superman. He tries, I love a lot of his other work, and he seems like a great guy, but Johns really does not get Superman. The Apokolips thing and the solar flare "power" being only two examples why. The Apokolips thing could have been cool if it had been done in a totally different way.

As for weaknesses in general, Kryptonite is fine with me. It's sorta unique now, no one else still has a silly dues ex machina flaw anymore. But writers make it either paralyze him or depower him. All it's supposed to do is inflict crippling pain. More potent and/or larger chunks should have a more powerful effect but it's something Clark should be able to push through and get around most of the time. And I never warmed up to the idea of multiple colors existing. There should be green, and that's it. An artificial, lab-created red kryptonite or something? I can deal with that now and then, I think that's great, but green should be the only "real" kryptonite there is.

The magic weakness always seems blown out of proportion to me. There's no reason for Clark to be more susceptible to magic than anyone else.....it's just that he's not especially resistant to it like he is most things. A weak blast from some two-bit wizard should maybe sting a little bit but it's not going to slow him down while a powerful blast from a real arcanist is going to knock him on his ass....just like it would anyone else. Magic is dangerous for Clark, but it's not an automatic "I Win" button for the villain, either.

I'm on the fence about the red sun thing. I don't like it when it's treated like an "off" switch for Clark. A power drain? Okay.....I can see that I suppose, though I'd think that all it would do is prevent Clark from replenishing his solar reserves (and we know he's not gonna run out of juice quickly so its not much advantage in combat). But I don't like the idea of it just instantly taking all of Clark's powers away, and I definitely dislike it when it's treated like a common technology any smuck can get a hold of. That's not just colored light, that's cosmic radiation from a completely different galaxy. It's not gonna be easily replicated.

And I don't think Clark needs any more weaknesses than those.

Well, his enhanced senses can be used against him, but DC seems to usually forget about that.

[Francisco]

First, disregard anything Geoff Johns does with Superman. He tries, I love a lot of his other work, and he seems like a great guy, but Johns really does not get Superman. The Apokolips thing and the solar flare "power" being only two examples why. The Apokolips thing could have been cool if it had been done in a totally different way.

As for weaknesses in general, Kryptonite is fine with me. It's sorta unique now, no one else still has a silly dues ex machina flaw anymore. But writers make it either paralyze him or depower him. All it's supposed to do is inflict crippling pain. More potent and/or larger chunks should have a more powerful effect but it's something Clark should be able to push through and get around most of the time. And I never warmed up to the idea of multiple colors existing. There should be green, and that's it. An artificial, lab-created red kryptonite or something? I can deal with that now and then, I think that's great, but green should be the only "real" kryptonite there is.

The magic weakness always seems blown out of proportion to me. There's no reason for Clark to be more susceptible to magic than anyone else.....it's just that he's not especially resistant to it like he is most things. A weak blast from some two-bit wizard should maybe sting a little bit but it's not going to slow him down while a powerful blast from a real arcanist is going to knock him on his ass....just like it would anyone else. Magic is dangerous for Clark, but it's not an automatic "I Win" button for the villain, either.

I'm on the fence about the red sun thing. I don't like it when it's treated like an "off" switch for Clark. A power drain? Okay.....I can see that I suppose, though I'd think that all it would do is prevent Clark from replenishing his solar reserves (and we know he's not gonna run out of juice quickly so its not much advantage in combat). But I don't like the idea of it just instantly taking all of Clark's powers away, and I definitely dislike it when it's treated like a common technology any smuck can get a hold of. That's not just colored light, that's cosmic radiation from a completely different galaxy. It's not gonna be easily replicated.

And I don't think Clark needs any more weaknesses than those.

Well, his enhanced senses can be used against him, but DC seems to usually forget about that.

Yep, this...

Regarding his super senses. The last time I remember someone exploiting them against him I think it was Hamilton when he became (revealed himself as) Ruin. Banshee also did it (superhearing)

[Vordan]

I like Supes being vulnerable to sonics and electricity. Red Suns are all over the place. Sometimes like in Gods and Monsters they actually hurt Kryptonians.

[Kuwagaton]

As for weaknesses in general, Kryptonite is fine with me. It's sorta unique now, no one else still has a silly dues ex machina flaw anymore. But writers make it either paralyze him or depower him. All it's supposed to do is inflict crippling pain. More potent and/or larger chunks should have a more powerful effect but it's something Clark should be able to push through and get around most of the time. And I never warmed up to the idea of multiple colors existing. There should be green, and that's it. An artificial, lab-created red kryptonite or something? I can deal with that now and then, I think that's great, but green should be the only "real" kryptonite there is.

Aw, man I love the multi colors. From way, way before every other character had some sort of rainbow legacy force or whatever. Green K is a cornerstone of pop culture and while it doesn't always take his powers, it did at some points help like when he needed surgery. I also would claim Kryptonite Kid as Superboy's best villain, due to the brutal effect his powers had. The post crisis idea to minimize wasn't just making it the only color or literally rare, but it also proved cancerous to regular people. People who actually got kryptonite and didn't chance finding out the hard way that they were ripped off, that is.

That radiation poisoning seems gone since Goode had it uncovered in her bag. But that's another problem: either you have it in view of his x-ray vision, or you seal it in lead so that you have to try and unleash it before he completely thwarts you.

The other colors, and speaking of different suns... in the same issue #371 where Superman is psychic amped by the purple sun, he shows off six types of kryptonite. I think those alone just put so many stories on the table.

Magic is dangerous for Clark, but it's not an automatic "I Win" button for the villain, either.

It did bug me that it seemingly used to be. Back in the day they still tried to portray Superman as top dog, but being around Fate there were some pretty clear limitations he had.

[U.N. Owen]

I'd just sic the Spectre on Superman and call it a day.

As for other weaknesses, Superman is weak to antimatter because he is by nature a being of positive matter. And DC has a ton of antimatter lying around.

[Killerbee911]

I like the weakened state from Solar flare but I didn't like the how they implemented it. I like Superman having a base state, exhausted state and boosted state. In his exhausted state he is more vulnerable to stuff. I prefer that more to Kryptonite or Magic. Basically he is big solar battery he can overcharge and do amazing stuff and he can push himself so hard that he exhausts himself and needs to recharge back to "his superman" levels.

[magha_regulus]

I never liked the idea of Superman being vulnerable to sonic attacks. Yes he has super hearing, but he's also invulnerable. He shouldn't be able to be hurt that way.
I also really dislike the idea of Superman being vulnerable to psychic attacks. In my head canon because of kryptonian super-intelligence psycic attacks would have very limited affects on him.

My issue with teleprotation is that it breaks down the molecular structure. Smething like that could be weaponized. Superman should be too invulnerable for something like a teleportation device to work on him. A boom tube should work fine but a star-trek style teleporter shouldnt work.

I like the multiple types of kryptonite, even the weird red kryptonite mutations. Those sorts of things are really fun and Superman needs those fun elements imho.

I agree with those who said that red sunlight should just be a power drain and not an off switch. Superman shouldn't lose his powers to a red flashlight.

[adkal]

I never liked the idea of Superman being vulnerable to sonic attacks. Yes he has super hearing, but he's also invulnerable. He shouldn't be able to be hurt that way.

I can see sonic attacks messing with his equilibrium (and that it's more 'sensitive' because of his flight ability), but apart from bombarding him with sonics, attacking him at frequency that can disrupt his base vibration state, or (and I only recall this happening twice at the moment, as actual attacks (with the second time being a likely unexpected side-effect)) cranking up his hearing so that it overwhelms him, he should be able to shrug off most sonic attacks pretty quickly.

I also really dislike the idea of Superman being vulnerable to psychic attacks. In my head canon because of kryptonian super-intelligence psycic attacks would have very limited affects on him.

Max Lord burrowing in over years and years is something I could work with (although J'onn or someone else should have spotted it after a while) but Superman 'falling' because he 'thinks like a human' isn't something I agree with. One of my favourite Brainiac stories had Brainiac, in Superman's body, complaining that his dense molecular structure made it almost impossible for Brainiac to use his psionic abilities the way he ordinarily would, and I feel the reverse should be true, too - that getting into Superman's head should be bloomin' hard (and mind-controlling him should be even harder as filtering his sensory input (the way Max did) would have to be constant thing, otherwise he would clock on and snap out of it).

My issue with teleprotation is that it breaks down the molecular structure. Smething like that could be weaponized. Superman should be too invulnerable for something like a teleportation device to work on him. A boom tube should work fine but a star-trek style teleporter shouldnt work.

Agreed - and there have been mentions, over the years, of, for example, Superman flying to the JLA satellite because the teleporters don't work on him. Gates and boom tubes, like you say, should be fine.

I agree with those who said that red sunlight should just be a power drain and not an off switch. Superman shouldn't lose his powers to a red flashlight.

I feel the 'power drain' should be dependent on the amount of red sun he's being exposed to. If, for example, it's a highly concentrated blast, then that could negate his powers (but, in my opinion, he would still be Ultimate Red Skull-level as a 'base' Kryptonian) as, like with Kryptonite, his cells absorb the radiation more readily. However, thereafter, he would have to be constantly exposed to red sun radiation as, within a few minutes of him not being exposed, his body will readily tap into his Sol-reserves.

[raidensix]

I don't have a problem with kryptonite per se but it needs to be extremely rare and difficult to replicate. The problem is it seems to be available on eBay. The many colors also make it hard to take seriously. I have a bigger issue with why Superman is not taking any proactive measures to protect himself from kryptonite. The stuff can kill him but he aways seems to take the "I'll deal with it when I encounter it" approach. And of course in the latest Action Comics he dealt with it by running to Batman for help. Post-crisis, long term exposure to kryptonite had a negative effect on humans which I think is a good idea.

The magic weakness is simply lazy-writing. Magic has rules, a specific spell for a specific effect but with Superman, any magical item is lethal *sigh*. Writers use it as a quick way to take Superman out of the plot and focus on other characters.

With red sunlight, they just need to make it consistent (a hard task), either it blocks him from recharging or completely negates his powers. Also, any regular red lamp should not work.