It's been a year since Marvel has deemed Moon Girl the "smartest person"

[Techno_Knight]

Sometimes I wonder whether writers these days have any actual knowledge of science, or if they just browse Reddit and have "Liked" Facebook's "I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE" page. Then I remember America's "white is the absence of color" line and I get my answer...

[SignorMiracolo]

Anyway it's hilarious to see with how much certainty people can talk about smartness while totally ignoring what is it and how it works. Intelligence is not knowledge, it's not wisdom, it's not experience. It's not something one earn or acquire, it's a quality one is born with. All the critics to the character that ignore that are totally meaningless. A 5 years old can be more intelligent than a 75 years old, because that's how intelligence works and how the whole world agree it works (just look at a dictionary, like the Oxford one, intelligence:The ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills).

How people can discuss a matter while completely ignoring it is really beyond me.

[ed2962]

Sometimes I wonder whether writers these days have any actual knowledge of science, or if they just browse Reddit and have "Liked" Facebook's "I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE" page. Then I remember America's "white is the absence of color" line and I get my answer...

Stan Lee would constantly admit that he didn't know anything about science. He would just write down things he thought sounded cool.

[Abe]

Anyway it's hilarious to see with how much certainty people can talk about smartness while totally ignoring what is it and how it works. Intelligence is not knowledge, it's not wisdom, it's not experience. It's not something one earn or acquire, it's a quality one is born with. All the critics to the character that ignore that are totally meaningless. A 5 years old can be more intelligent than a 75 years old, because that's how intelligence works and how the whole world agree it works (just look at a dictionary, like the Oxford one, intelligence:The ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills).

How people can discuss a matter while completely ignoring it is really beyond me.

As you say it's hilarious and really beyond me too...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mall...f_intelligence

[Techno_Knight]

Stan Lee would constantly admit that he didn't know anything about science. He would just write down things he thought sounded cool.

That was the 60s. Now it's 2017. And back then, Stark wasn't creating fully functioning suits with AIs in his Dorm Room. Stan made sure to give him casual upgrades, bit by bit, every time. He went from a bulky armor that would break down in minutes to a sturdier bulky armor, to a more elegant but more fragile armor, etc, etc. Each issue featured a small upgrade, not to mention Stark having to recharge himself every few hours. back then the characters had limits and drawbacks to contrast their accomplishments and strengths. Nowadays, "science" is just another word for "it's magic, I ain't gotta explain shot". Sadly the world has far too few Christopher Priests...

[Abe]

This reminds me that I hate the way supergeniuses are good at everything when they should have specific fields. Like Reed Richards, who for some reason is meant to be the best at everything scientific when he should only have one main field which is physics. He could have good knowledge of other fields, but he shouldn't be great at all things science and I wish that would change.

With the Reed example it can even help the story, like his inability over the years to cure Ben. He could have been having such a problem with it because it requires biology something that he's not an expert in.

Not wrong. But we should not forget that Reeds brain is mostly designed to instantly produced super cool Kirby-science for super-cool Lee-Kirby stories. That's what really matters imho .

[Abe]

You make me want to read classic Iron Man stories, Techno_Knight. I'm gonna check right now what Epic collection volume have been published yet...

[ed2962]

That was the 60s. Now it's 2017. And back then, Stark wasn't creating fully functioning suits with AIs in his Dorm Room. Stan made sure to give him casual upgrades, bit by bit, every time. He went from a bulky armor that would break down in minutes to a sturdier bulky armor, to a more elegant but more fragile armor, etc, etc. Each issue featured a small upgrade, not to mention Stark having to recharge himself every few hours. back then the characters had limits and drawbacks to contrast their accomplishments and strengths. Nowadays, "science" is just another word for "it's magic, I ain't gotta explain shot". Sadly the world has far too few Christopher Priests...

My point is that its not just "now days", bad science has been the corner stone of the Marvel Universe since Stan's days. The fact that Tony's armor has gotten upgrades over the years doesn't mean his armor makes any more sense than it did in the silver age.

[Techno_Knight]

Not wrong. But we should not forget that Reeds brain is mostly designed to instantly produced super cool Kirby-science for super-cool Lee-Kirby stories. That's what really matters imho .

Reed also has the excuse of being genetically changed due to the Cosmic Radiation. The whole "stretching brain" bit. Morrison used it in 1234 and Hickman gave it a spin over at Ultimates.

You make me want to read classic Iron Man stories, Techno_Knight. I'm gonna check right now what Epic collection volume have been published yet...

I'd start from the start, all the way back to Tales of Suspense. Those were some pretty darn entertaining stories, and it's refreshing getting a complete tale in just one issues. Otherwise, Around issue 100 of Volume 1 is a good choice, so that you'll get to read Doomquest
and its follow-up around the 250 mark. If you just want a quick way in, V3 which started in 1998 is the best start. It's got some references to the past, but it's mostly a great jumping on point.

[Techno_Knight]

My point is that its not just "now days", bad science has been the corner stone of the Marvel Universe since Stan's days. The fact that Tony's armor has gotten upgrades over the years doesn't mean his armor makes any more sense than it did in the silver age.

You're missing the point: Back then a writer couldn't get the necessary knowledge to write a convincing bullshit reason, they had to make it all up. Now you can boot up your PC, and Google whatever you want. "White is the absence of light" shouldn't have been published, considering it takes seconds to find out it's the complete opposite. Comic Book "Science" will always be another word for magic, but considering the amount of knowledge that exists today, and the fact that you can access most of it, means certain mistakes shouldn't be made.

As for the armor, the point is that feats back then built gradually atop one another. The armor began as a crude tank, then became sleeker, etc, etc. "Magic Transistors made by adult industrialist" was more believable than today's "I created fully functioning AI in my basement with Lego".

[Crimz]

Not wrong. But we should not forget that Reeds brain is mostly designed to instantly produced super cool Kirby-science for super-cool Lee-Kirby stories. That's what really matters imho .

I get that, I think Reed could still pull off those amazing things by being adept in all categories of physics and robotics as those are what he usually uses and needs to pull off those Kirby-esque things. He can be knowledgable in other fields but not a leading expert. It opens up the MU more too as if he has to tackle a biological problem he can contact Hank McCoy or someone else who's an expert in that field.

It also leaves room for more genius characters in different fields.

[Techno_Knight]

I get that, I think Reed could still pull off those amazing things by being adept in all categories of physics and robotics as those are what he usually uses and needs to pull off those Kirby-esque things. He can be knowledgable in other fields but not a leading expert. It opens up the MU more too as if he has to tackle a biological problem he can contact Hank McCoy or someone else who's an expert in that field.

It also leaves room for more genius characters in different fields.

I 100% agree with that. It's why I never like extreme upgrades. I like my Batman as more of a Detective, my Stark as purely an Engineer, etc, etc. When you have characters like Pym, Reed and Holt completely break any amount of realism and be experts at both Robotics and Chemistry, then the books become boring. It's the reason why I do not like the current geniuses. Well, one of them anyway. People don't realize how vast the amount of available knowledge is. People specialize in Color Physics for example. You hear color and think the rainbow, Snell's Law, but it's an entire field. Making your character an expert on a whole category is already stretching the limits of realism, but the moment you double that, you've lost any amount of "real world relevance". When you move past that and enter the Terrific/Richards territory, well...

[Abe]

Reed also has the excuse of being genetically changed due to the Cosmic Radiation. The whole "stretching brain" bit. Morrison used it in 1234 and Hickman gave it a spin over at Ultimates.

True! I love FF1234 btw - and Hickman's Maker too of course!

I'd start from the start, all the way back to Tales of Suspense. Those were some pretty darn entertaining stories, and it's refreshing getting a complete tale in just one issues. Otherwise, Around issue 100 of Volume 1 is a good choice, so that you'll get to read Doomquest
and its follow-up around the 250 mark. If you just want a quick way in, V3 which started in 1998 is the best start. It's got some references to the past, but it's mostly a great jumping on point.

I haven't read much of the oldest stories. Probably around a dozen, maybe more. I liked the cold war vibe as a kid in the 80s. And I followed the series in French translation at the same time - probably from #113 to issue #187, I'm not really sure. So classic stories by Michelinie and Doomquest - which was one of my favourite Marvel story back then (I have the HC with all the follow-up and the back issues of the original story ).

I'm not sure if I will invest in the two first Epic volumes And I'm not really interested with the two others from the 80s. I hope that that will publish some day the runs by Michelinie in that format. It's needed! And some Epic with good parts of the volume 3. It's where you discovered the character iirc, isn't it?

[Techno_Knight]

True! I love FF1234 btw - and Hickman's Maker too of course!

1234 was certainly weird, but it was an enjoyable story.

I haven't read much of the oldest stories. Probably around a dozen, maybe more. I liked the cold war vibe as a kid in the 80s. And I followed the series in French translation at the same time - probably from #113 to issue #187, I'm not really sure. So classic stories by Michelinie and Doomquest - which was one of my favourite Marvel story back then (I have the HC with all the follow-up and the back issues of the original story ).

I'm not sure if I will invest in the two first Epic volumes And I'm not really interested with the two others from the 80s. I hope that that will publish some day the runs by Michelinie in that format. It's needed! And some Epic with good parts of the volume 3. It's where you discovered the character iirc, isn't it?

Just an FYI, there's a 3rd Part to Doomquest. First part is IM #149-#150. 2nd Part is IM #49-#250. 3rd Part is a mini called "Legacy of Doom". Needless to say stuff like Armor Wars and Rohodey donning the War Machine for the first time are must reads. The Armor Wars Epilogue was a chilling issue. As for other minis, Hypervelocity is a classic, and while non-canon, I really enjoyed "Season One". There are others, but you need to have read certain stuff to appreciate them.

[Abe]

1234 was certainly weird, but it was an enjoyable story.


Just an FYI, there's a 3rd Part to Doomquest. First part is IM #149-#150. 2nd Part is IM #49-#250. 3rd Part is a mini called "Legacy of Doom". Needless to say stuff like Armor Wars and Rohodey donning the War Machine for the first time are must reads. The Armor Wars Epilogue was a chilling issue. As for other minis, Hypervelocity is a classic, and while non-canon, I really enjoyed "Season One". There are others, but you need to have read certain stuff to appreciate them.

1. Nice story and stellar art by Jae Lee!
2. Yes. Legacy of Doom... It was not in the HC edition collecting the first two parts. I was surprised when I saw the trade in a store. It's nice to see those homages to the original story - even if they are not as good imho.
3. Thanks a lot. Recommendations recorded. Useful!