It's been a year since Marvel has deemed Moon Girl the "smartest person"

[KurtW95]

I have no problem with Toni Ho, but I don't understand the necessity to make her the "new Tony Stark." Tony Stark is Tony Stark. He shouldn't be replaced.

[Tiamatty]

Yes. Toni Ho.

Point. Yes, it was bad phrasing, I should have remembered that line. Still, my point is that she should fill a role similar to Tony Stark: A genius-based superhero.

I have no problem with Toni Ho, but I don't understand the necessity to make her the "new Tony Stark." Tony Stark is Tony Stark. He shouldn't be replaced.

At least we finally found a female super-genius you don't want to **** on.



But yeah, Toni Ho shouldn't retire from being a superhero. She shouldn't retire from field work. She should continue on as a tech-based superhero. Going out to personally fight bad guys, and using her knowledge of science to foil plans and ****. That it seems like she's retiring from field work is exactly the problem I'm complaining about. Marvel, for whatever reason, seems to just straight-up hate the idea that women can be both super-scientists and superheroes. It's sexist bullshit. And the fact that their baby-steps in the direction of changing that are being met with scorn and opposition is also sexist.

[Hizashi]

I still personally find it silly that a little girl is the smartest or whatever, but fine; how about Marvel show some grown women throw science around? I know it's been suggested on here already, so why not? Sue Storm, Janet van Dyne, Bobbi Morse, etc., and definitely start giving all the scientists specialties, like in the real world?

[Tiamatty]

I still personally find it silly that a little girl is the smartest or whatever, but fine; how about Marvel show some grown women throw science around? I know it's been suggested on here already, so why not? Sue Storm, Janet van Dyne, Bobbi Morse, etc., and definitely start giving all the scientists specialties, like in the real world?

Except Sue and Janet aren't scientists. They were introduced when the two main goals of women were marriage and modeling, at least according to the men of the time. So they didn't get to be scientists.

And in all the decades since, Marvel has continually failed to introduce female characters who were both scientists and superheroes. So now, we get today. And Marvel just finds it easier in general to introduce new characters who are young.

I want Lunella, Nadia and Riri to stick around, and be allowed to be shown among other super-genius heroes. I want Toni Ho to get a new superheroic identity. I want Tilda to still be alive, still Nighthawk, fighting crime while also getting to work in a lab. I want Marvel to have a female equivalent to Hank Pym. Because, for 50 years, they never bothered to come up with one.

[KurtW95]

At least we finally found a female super-genius you don't want to **** on.

Why do you have to respond like that? I haven't said anything nasty to you. Why must you project a nefarious motive on someone who disagrees with you? I just want to have a civil conversation.

[TitanMax]

So would anyone object to Toni Ho becoming the new Tony Stark?

I would. I could give a s@#! about race, age, gender, sexual orientation I simply don't want my favorite characters being replaced.

[Tiamatty]

I would. I could give a s@#! about race, age, gender, sexual orientation I simply don't want my favorite characters being replaced.

My point wasn't about Stark being replaced. My point was about having a woman who fills the same kind of role that Stark or Pym fill. Because Marvel doesn't have that. They have no female equivalent to Stark or Pym. They don't have female super-geniuses who can put on a costume and punch bad guys, and then go back to their lab to analyze the mysterious alien device they found.

So, would you have a problem with Toni Ho getting a new superhero identity and joining the Avengers to help in fights while also serving as their primary technical expert? Is that something you would support?

[Hizashi]

Except Sue and Janet aren't scientists. They were introduced when the two main goals of women were marriage and modeling, at least according to the men of the time. So they didn't get to be scientists.

And in all the decades since, Marvel has continually failed to introduce female characters who were both scientists and superheroes. So now, we get today. And Marvel just finds it easier in general to introduce new characters who are young.

I want Lunella, Nadia and Riri to stick around, and be allowed to be shown among other super-genius heroes. I want Toni Ho to get a new superheroic identity. I want Tilda to still be alive, still Nighthawk, fighting crime while also getting to work in a lab. I want Marvel to have a female equivalent to Hank Pym. Because, for 50 years, they never bothered to come up with one.

Eh, just throwing some names out there. Tilda was in Occupy Avengers right? I liked her, the team Hawkeye put together there was pretty unique and fun. It's a shame the book fizzled out.

[Tiamatty]

Eh, just throwing some names out there. Tilda was in Occupy Avengers right? I liked her, the team Hawkeye put together there was pretty unique and fun. It's a shame the book fizzled out.

She was Nighthawk's support in his solo, and then she joined the team in Occupy Avengers, and ended that run taking on the Nighhawk mantle, herself.

[Hizashi]

She was Nighthawk's support in his solo, and then she joined the team in Occupy Avengers, and ended that run taking on the Nighhawk mantle, herself.

Yeah, they should bring her and Redwolf(?) back. Hawkeye could use some friends, and maybe that could get them into other books.

Also, I don't want hero titles being passed around so easily, so Iron Man=Tony, but let's get more women as superhero/technical experts.

[gwangung]

Yeah, they should bring her and Redwolf(?) back. Hawkeye could use some friends, and maybe that could get them into other books.

Also, I don't want hero titles being passed around so easily, so Iron Man=Tony, but let's get more women as superhero/technical experts.

Yeah, why not? Just as a matter of versimilatude; you want to have multiple people you can call on to fix things. Let's use these existing characters. (Don't have a problem with one or two new people, either; you'd think Tony or Reed would want to train a few people so they're not ALWAYS being called upon to fix things...)

[Tiamatty]

Yeah, they should bring her and Redwolf(?) back. Hawkeye could use some friends, and maybe that could get them into other books.

Also, I don't want hero titles being passed around so easily, so Iron Man=Tony, but let's get more women as superhero/technical experts.

The important thing is they be both. Superheroes and tech experts. Because Marvel is lousy with female scientists and tech experts. They never get to be superheroes. Toni Ho is a perfect example of what we need more of. I desperately hope Ewing has her take on another superhero identity. That she keeps going out in the field to beat up bad guys. And I hope other writers start making use of her. They should. If I wrote for Marvel right now, I would be chomping at the bit to include her in my stories. QWOC who is a super-genius and a superhero. Marvel needs that.

So I'm sure they're going to ignore her very existence once USAvengers ends.

[Hizashi]

The important thing is they be both. Superheroes and tech experts. Because Marvel is lousy with female scientists and tech experts. They never get to be superheroes. Toni Ho is a perfect example of what we need more of. I desperately hope Ewing has her take on another superhero identity. That she keeps going out in the field to beat up bad guys. And I hope other writers start making use of her. They should. If I wrote for Marvel right now, I would be chomping at the bit to include her in my stories. QWOC who is a super-genius and a superhero. Marvel needs that.

So I'm sure they're going to ignore her very existence once USAvengers ends.

Right, sorry, I meant they should be both. I really liked how Occupy Avengers began, Clint seemed so... happy? I dunno, the team was nice.

[Tiamatty]

Right, sorry, I meant they should be both. I really liked how Occupy Avengers began, Clint seemed so... happy? I dunno, the team was nice.

Yeah, I figured you meant they should be both. I just really wanted to stress the importance of it. So that, next time an event needs to get a bunch of super-genius superheroes together, it's not just a total sausage party.

Remember Hickman's Avengers work? Time Runs Out? Pretty much all the smartest superheroes were working together to find a solution to the Incursions? By the time of TRO, that team was Reed, T'Challa, Stark, Banner, McCoy, Pym, Cho, and Braddock. All men. AvX, the team that put together the anti-Phoenix gun? Stark, Pym, McCoy. I seem to recall Broo helping out the science guys in one comic during that time. When a genius is needed as a cameo? Reed, Tony, Bruce, a Hank. Never a girl, unless she's a civilian, in which case she was basically created specifically for the story being told and will never show up again.

It's why I was so happy when Bobbi and Nadia showed up in All-New Wolverine, for a story about a virus. Bobbi's a bio-chemist, she makes perfect sense to appear in a story like that. Nadia is something of a polyglot, and can quickly grasp details about things outside her own specialty, so she made sense, too. We need more of that.

Put Bobbi on an Avengers team, and have an arc dealing with some sort of virus, and she's racing against the clock to cure it. Have Nadia be the one to jury-rig a villain's giant machine to reverse its effects. Have Lunella help Beast to unravel the mysteries of an alien device.

And in the name of Grace Hopper, let Toni Ho get another superhero identity and keep going out in the field to punch bad guys while also being the team scientist.

[Kurolegacy]

My point wasn't about Stark being replaced. My point was about having a woman who fills the same kind of role that Stark or Pym fill. Because Marvel doesn't have that. They have no female equivalent to Stark or Pym. They don't have female super-geniuses who can put on a costume and punch bad guys, and then go back to their lab to analyze the mysterious alien device they found.

So, would you have a problem with Toni Ho getting a new superhero identity and joining the Avengers to help in fights while also serving as their primary technical expert? Is that something you would support?

You seem to have forgotten about Riri who, despite having yet to accomplish anything worth the shilling she gets in-universe, was essentially created as a female who fills the role of Tony Stark. Hell, in probably the one time I've seen her do something truly impressive, she saw that her enemy was tech based and not only created a virus to shut her down but baited her by sending in an Iron Man armor to confront her and ended up using her own powers against her. If a better writer was writing her, she could probably be something impressive. And as for a female equivalent of Hank Pym, Nadia fills that role being his daughter and a genius.