It's been a year since Marvel has deemed Moon Girl the "smartest person"

[Tiamatty]

You seem to have forgotten about Riri who, despite having yet to accomplish anything worth the shilling she gets in-universe, was essentially created as a female who fills the role of Tony Stark. Hell, in probably the one time I've seen her do something truly impressive, she saw that her enemy was tech based and not only created a virus to shut her down but baited her by sending in an Iron Man armor to confront her and ended up using her own powers against her. If a better writer was writing her, she could probably be something impressive. And as for a female equivalent of Hank Pym, Nadia fills that role being his daughter and a genius.

I haven't forgotten either of those girls. I've talked about them plenty, along with Lunella. But people kept bitching about them being so young. I hope Nadia and Riri get to stick around, get more chances to prove themselves, get to become permanent presences in the Marvel Universe.

But I think it is worth noting that it, up until Secret Wars, Marvel had no female equivalents to Stark or Pym or McCoy or Banner. It's only in the past couple years that we've started getting any. And, Toni Ho aside, they're all kids. Probably because it's just easier to introduce new youth characters than new adult characters. But it does mean that the only female super-scientists end up getting constantly crapped on by certain segments of the fan base. These people don't want young girls to fill the roles of the men. And I'm saying, they're the only ones Marvel is putting forward to fill those roles.

[Kintor]

But I think it is worth noting that it, up until Secret Wars, Marvel had no female equivalents to Stark or Pym or McCoy or Banner. It's only in the past couple years that we've started getting any. And, Toni Ho aside, they're all kids. Probably because it's just easier to introduce new youth characters than new adult characters. But it does mean that the only female super-scientists end up getting constantly crapped on by certain segments of the fan base. These people don't want young girls to fill the roles of the men. And I'm saying, they're the only ones Marvel is putting forward to fill those roles.

What? You're joking right?

Let me straighten this out for you:

Iron Man - Pepper Pots as Rescue

Ant Man - Janet van Dyne as Wasp

Beast - Any of the female X-Men

Hulk - Jennifer Walters as She-Hulk

It's dishonest for you to claim that Marvel hasn't had strong women as superheroes, these characters have been around for decades and certainly pre-date Secret Wars.

[Username taken]

What? You're joking right?

Let me straighten this out for you:

Iron Man - Pepper Pots as Rescue

Ant Man - Janet van Dyne as Wasp

Beast - Any of the female X-Men

Hulk - Jennifer Walters as She-Hulk

It's dishonest for you to claim that Marvel hasn't had strong women as superheroes, these characters have been around for decades and certainly pre-date Secret Wars.

He's talking about female geniuses (which is the crux of the thread).

None of the characters you mentioned are female geniuses.

[Kintor]

He's talking about female geniuses (which is the crux of the thread).

None of the characters you mentioned are female geniuses.

As I said earlier in this thread, there is far more to intelligence then Marvel's vague notion of 'super science'. Burn the list, promote the best of Marvel's existing heroines, don't waste time elevating Moon Girl above her limited achievements as an 8-year old. What about somebody like Emma Frost instead? Granted, she's technically not a X-Men (at the moment) but Emma Frost's political insights and good educational background should make her more than a match for Riri or Nadia, to say nothing of the naive Moon Girl.

[Username taken]

As I said earlier in this thread, there is far more to intelligence then Marvel's vague notion of 'super science'. Burn the list, promote the best of Marvel's existing heroines, don't waste time elevating Moon Girl above her limited achievements as an 8-year old. What about somebody like Emma Frost instead? Granted, she's technically not a X-Men (at the moment) but Emma Frost's political insights and good educational background should make her more than a match for Riri or Nadia, to say nothing of the naive Moon Girl.

I agree with the first part. The list was a stupid idea in the first place.

I don't agree with the other parts of the post. Marvel can create new female geniuses and promote the existing ones as well.

[Kintor]

I agree with the first part. The list was a stupid idea in the first place.

I don't agree with the other parts of the post. Marvel can create new female geniuses and promote the existing ones as well.

Seeing as how Marvel often neglects its existing characters throwing more geniuses onto the pile just seems like a bad idea to me. If Marvel was sincere about promoting smart female leads all they had to do was go and look at their own archive. This current push for characters like Moon Girl and Nadia especially just strikes me as a cynical cash grab, cheap print for Scholastic to buy in bulk but doesn't actually do anything to advance the cause they claim cherish.

[ed2962]

Seeing as how Marvel often neglects its existing characters throwing more geniuses onto the pile just seems like a bad idea to me. If Marvel was sincere about promoting smart female leads all they had to do was go and look at their own archive. This current push for characters like Moon Girl and Nadia especially just strikes me as a cynical cash grab, cheap print for Scholastic to buy in bulk but doesn't actually do anything to advance the cause they claim cherish.

Let's say this is true...so what? This doesn't hurt anyone. A comic book company trying to make money buy creating new characters isn't some strange abhorrent behavior.

[Kintor]

Let's say this is true...so what? This doesn't hurt anyone. A comic book company trying to make money buy creating new characters isn't some strange abhorrent behavior.

When Marvel start defending Moon Girl in terms of moral arguments, railing against perceived sexism and racism, don't act surprised when those same moral judgements can always be turned against Marvel. The hype around Moon Girl is abhorrent because it reeks of hypocrisy, for decades Marvel has ignored the brilliant female characters they have already created and now suddenly demands praise for Moon Girl as though she is unprecedented when nothing could be further from the truth.

[ed2962]

When Marvel start defending Moon Girl in terms of moral arguments, railing against perceived sexism and racism, don't act surprised when those same moral judgements can always be turned against Marvel. The hype around Moon Girl is abhorrent because it reeks of hypocrisy, for decades Marvel has ignored the brilliant female characters they have already created and now suddenly demands praise for Moon Girl as though she is unprecedented when nothing could be further from the truth.

None of this is happening though. Marvel is not defending the character by calling detractors sexist or racist. There's nothing hypocritical about saying, "Hey we have a new kid's character in our comics! Buy it for your children!" Marvel has not said that Moon Girl is unprecedented nor have they "demanded" praise.

[Username taken]

Seeing as how Marvel often neglects its existing characters throwing more geniuses onto the pile just seems like a bad idea to me. If Marvel was sincere about promoting smart female leads all they had to do was go and look at their own archive. This current push for characters like Moon Girl and Nadia especially just strikes me as a cynical cash grab, cheap print for Scholastic to buy in bulk but doesn't actually do anything to advance the cause they claim cherish.

That's certainly one way of looking at it.

I would like to look at it as Marvel expanding and giving young ladies all-ages titles and characters they would enjoy.

That's always a good thing.

[Username taken]

When Marvel start defending Moon Girl in terms of moral arguments, railing against perceived sexism and racism, don't act surprised when those same moral judgements can always be turned against Marvel. The hype around Moon Girl is abhorrent because it reeks of hypocrisy, for decades Marvel has ignored the brilliant female characters they have already created and now suddenly demands praise for Moon Girl as though she is unprecedented when nothing could be further from the truth.

Marvel has always published female characters and hyped them. It's not new except that society is a lot more supportive of female superheroes than ever before hence why Wonder Woman is one of the biggest movies of all time and comic books featuring Harley Quinn and Jane Thor are best sellers.

I don't think the people hyping the character are being hypocritical, I think the people buying the title enjoy it.

[Kintor]

None of this is happening though. Marvel is not defending the character by calling detractors sexist or racist. There's nothing hypocritical about saying, "Hey we have a new kid's character in our comics! Buy it for your children!" Marvel has not said that Moon Girl is unprecedented nor have they "demanded" praise.

It's always the same rigmarole with Marvel lately, to shout sexism or racism at the top of their lungs whenever a creative decision is called into question. You'll find the same rhetoric in this thread, demands to support Moon Girl based solely upon which demographics she was created to represent. This line of thinking is flawed because it doesn't fairly judge Moon Girl on her merits as a character, that there are plenty of other women in the Marvel universe more deserving on their own book but instead we're all stuck with an obnoxious brat like Moon Girl. Even this whole argument surrounding the 'smartest person in the world list' is just another attention seeking exercise. I don't think anyone in the comic community or Tumblr for that matter cared about the list until Marvel suddenly turned into this lightning rod for unnecessary drama.

[Hizashi]

Yeah, I figured you meant they should be both. I just really wanted to stress the importance of it. So that, next time an event needs to get a bunch of super-genius superheroes together, it's not just a total sausage party.

Remember Hickman's Avengers work? Time Runs Out? Pretty much all the smartest superheroes were working together to find a solution to the Incursions? By the time of TRO, that team was Reed, T'Challa, Stark, Banner, McCoy, Pym, Cho, and Braddock. All men. AvX, the team that put together the anti-Phoenix gun? Stark, Pym, McCoy. I seem to recall Broo helping out the science guys in one comic during that time. When a genius is needed as a cameo? Reed, Tony, Bruce, a Hank. Never a girl, unless she's a civilian, in which case she was basically created specifically for the story being told and will never show up again.

It's why I was so happy when Bobbi and Nadia showed up in All-New Wolverine, for a story about a virus. Bobbi's a bio-chemist, she makes perfect sense to appear in a story like that. Nadia is something of a polyglot, and can quickly grasp details about things outside her own specialty, so she made sense, too. We need more of that.

Put Bobbi on an Avengers team, and have an arc dealing with some sort of virus, and she's racing against the clock to cure it. Have Nadia be the one to jury-rig a villain's giant machine to reverse its effects. Have Lunella help Beast to unravel the mysteries of an alien device.

And in the name of Grace Hopper, let Toni Ho get another superhero identity and keep going out in the field to punch bad guys while also being the team scientist.

I'd like a new Secret Avengers with Hawkeye, Redwolf, Tilda's Nighthawk, Mockingbird, Scott Lang's Ant-Man, maybe a reformed villainess?

[The Negative Zone]

It's always the same rigmarole with Marvel lately, to shout sexism or racism at the top of their lungs whenever a creative decision is called into question. You'll find the same rhetoric in this thread, demands to support Moon Girl based solely upon which demographics she was created to represent. This line of thinking is flawed because it doesn't fairly judge Moon Girl on her merits as a character, that there are plenty of other women in the Marvel universe more deserving on their own book but instead we're all stuck with an obnoxious brat like Moon Girl. Even this whole argument surrounding the 'smartest person in the world list' is just another attention seeking exercise. I don't think anyone in the comic community or Tumblr for that matter cared about the list until Marvel suddenly turned into this lightning rod for unnecessary drama.

In a time where Solo, Foolkiller, Weapon H, and all of these random characters can get solo books, nothing is stopping ANY character from getting a comic book. The idea that Moon Girl is somehow stopping an character from getting their own spotlight is pure nonsense.

[ed2962]

It's always the same rigmarole with Marvel lately, to shout sexism or racism at the top of their lungs whenever a creative decision is called into question. You'll find the same rhetoric in this thread, demands to support Moon Girl based solely upon which demographics she was created to represent. This line of thinking is flawed because it doesn't fairly judge Moon Girl on her merits as a character, that there are plenty of other women in the Marvel universe more deserving on their own book but instead we're all stuck with an obnoxious brat like Moon Girl. Even this whole argument surrounding the 'smartest person in the world list' is just another attention seeking exercise. I don't think anyone in the comic community or Tumblr for that matter cared about the list until Marvel suddenly turned into this lightning rod for unnecessary drama.

People in this thread are not Marvel Comics. They have not shouted sexism or racism at the top of their lungs when people question creative decisions. More often than not, they ignore such questions. You're not stuck with Moon Girl, you can easily not buy her comic. And no reasonable person is concerned about "the list" least of all anyone on tumblr...the people who care are the ones who've decided that they don't care for MG. And what drama?