Five Years Later, AvX: What really went wrong? Who was the reall villain?

[QuinnFillory]

It has been five years since the infamous AvX storyline happened. Till this day, people was still debating the events in it, and they are as passionate about it as ever. The Avengers and the X-Men may have mostly put their differences aside, but their fans haven't and are still angry over how the story went. So, what really went wrong in the story? And, who was the true villain, in the end? Scott? Xavier? Logan? The Avengers? Or, was it no one?

[Confuzzled]

I'm a simple man. When I see low hanging fruit, I take it. So I will say Marvel Editorial.

[ChronoRogue]

The Avengers because they ended up using Hope the same way and invented stupid things for her to do in order to justify the turn around.

When Iron Fist (recton) and Spider-Man are the consultants needed to control PF and Rachel is ignored for the nth time, you know the story's bad.

[Nazrel]

I'm a simple man. When I see low hanging fruit, I take it. So I will say Marvel Editorial.

Them and Bendis.

[Star_Jammer]

The Avengers because they ended up using Hope the same way and invented stupid things for her to do in order to justify the turn around.

When Iron Fist (recton) and Spider-Man are the consultants needed to control PF and Rachel is ignored for the nth time, you know the story's bad.

Meh. Cyclops thought kicking Hope in her uterus was a better plan than going to Rachel, as well.

It was just a stupid event. Stop blaming one side over the other.

[ChronoRogue]

Meh. Cyclops thought kicking Hope in her uterus was a better plan than going to Rachel, as well.

It was just a stupid event. Stop blaming one side over the other.

The Avengers should've trusted the X-Men to handle it. Wolverine's ego is bad counsel. It's not like they have a vested interesting in not destroying the earth and have proven time and time again to save it or anything?

But yes, they both get dunce caps for ignoring Rachel. Editorial is too OP.

[Star_Jammer]

The Avengers should've trusted the X-Men to handle it. Wolverine's ego is bad counsel. It's not like they have a vested interesting in not destroying the earth and have proven time and time again to save it or anything?

But yes, they both get dunce caps for ignoring Rachel. Editorial is too OP.

I think I could've sympathized with the Xmen more if they had at least agreed to taking Hope off-planet, to see what would happen when the Phoenix reached her.

The only person that could claim to be a "Phoenix expert" was being ignored, so nobody had a clue what would/could happen.

[ChronoRogue]

I think I could've sympathized with the Xmen more if they had at least agreed to taking Hope off-planet, to see what would happen when the Phoenix reached her.

The only person that could claim to be a "Phoenix expert" was being ignored, so nobody had a clue what would/could happen.

The problem with that it was just a suspicion that it was after Hope. They weren't really totally sure.

It could've easily been or gone after any of the numerous other PF users like Quentin, the Cuckoos, Rachel or a random TP they have no affiliation with. It was safer to stay on Earth if they needed to defend it. And as it was shown, it was going to go to Earth anyway, since it did seem to want to erase Wanda's spell iirc.

[Star_Jammer]

The problem with that it was just a suspicion that it was after Hope. They weren't really totally sure.

It could've easily been or gone after any of the numerous other PF users like Quentin, the Cuckoos, Rachel or a random TP they have no affiliation with. It was safer to stay on Earth if they needed to defend it.

So...according to you...the Xmen didn't know WTF was happening, exactly, with the Phoenix, yet the Avengers had non-biased (including first-hand) information that it was causing a path of destruction, but the Avengers are somehow wrong for wanting to take action, and the Xmen are right for being so nonchalant?

[ChronoRogue]

So...according to you...the Xmen didn't know WTF was happening, exactly, with the Phoenix, yet the Avengers had non-biased (including first-hand) information that it was causing a path of destruction, but the Avengers are somehow wrong for wanting to take action, and the Xmen are right for being so nonchalant?

...? Niether knew what was happening exactly, that was clear by the order of events.

But if you're dealing with an entity that you have some experience with, why are going to trust a team that doesn't really know anything about it, then a team that's gotten rid of or dealt with it multiple times? It makes no sense.

[Star_Jammer]

...? Niether knew what was happening exactly, that was clear by the order of events.

But if you're dealing with an entity that you have some experience with, why are going to trust a team that doesn't really know anything about it, then a team that's gotten rid of or dealt with it multiple times? It makes no sense.

Why is a team with evidence that a force is destroying every planet in its path going to stand by and do nothing?

[ChronoRogue]

Why is a team with evidence that a force is destroying every planet in its path going to stand by and do nothing?

They shouldn't. But they should offer help and support, not act like an authority on the matter and try to take control of the situation when their more fish out of water than anyone there.

Even them acting independently but keeping any eye on Hope would've made more sense instead of what we got.

[Star_Jammer]

They shouldn't. But they should offer help and support, not act like an authority on the matter and try to take control of the situation when their more fish out of water than anyone there.

Even them acting independently but keeping any eye on Hope would've made more sense instead of what we got.

I'm of the mind that both parties acted inadequately. I'm just trying to understand why some people don't understand "AMGGGGG! My planet is about to be destroyed by a cosmic force!" is a very difficult emotion to overcome.

[Gray Lensman]

I think if they wanted to push Cyclops as the bad guy for not giving up the Phoenix Force then they needed to show one of the non-Hope hosts doing it to communicate that it was possible. A 'chosen one' by definition is capable of doing things others cannot - which makes using Hope as proof it can be done invalid to many eyes.

Also, having Cap throw that temper tantrum and attack Utopia again after Colossus....um....talked some bad guys down...well, that was an editorial mistake that was even bigger than not consulting Rachel - she was ignored by the story but he was one of the main people in it. It came across looking like Steve was willing to risk the entire planet just because he didn't win the first round. Then they followed it up with his dialogue when Namor was destroying Wakanda - I'm surprised T'challa didn't kill Steve right then and there. Captain America came out of this event looking worse than Cyclops did. His actions are those I'd accept from the U.S. Agent, but not him.

Really, it's hard to find an in-story villain who managed half the mess the writers and editors did.

[ChronoRogue]

I'm of the mind that both parties acted inadequately. I'm just trying to understand why some people don't understand "AMGGGGG! My planet is about to be destroyed by a cosmic force!" is a very difficult emotion to overcome.

It's the MU, this situation pops up all the time. Most of the time, neither team is even aware the other is dealing with potentially planet or universe destroying threats. Yet the earth always survives another day (bar AU rectons like Planet X thrown in).

I understand wanting to help, but the Avenger(s) should be used to this sort of thing by now. It reads as pride, in part for both but the Avengers especially since their the one dealing from a place of ignorance more so, not support.