what are your thoughts on X girls: Jean Grey, Psylocke, Storm, Emma Frost, Kitty

[Gortam]

Would like to hear you answers, opinions and suggestions.
what do you think?/do you want?/do you agree?/dont agree that :

1) X books needs more A list adult non-white female characters?

The X-Books need more A List GOOD and INTERESTING adult female characters. The colour of their skin is irrelevant.

Emma and Jean were good characters for that role. I loved their dynamic.

2) Jean was dead for reason. That reason was called "keeping Cyclops and Emma Frost together"?

I don´t think so... completly. I think Grant Morrisan had a bigger picture in mind for Jean. Jean gone for a while was needed to make Emma and Scott happen, without humiliating Jean. But i believe Grant Morrison had bigger plans for Jean. He introduced the idea of the Eggs and the auto-resurrection of Jean.

3) X girls tolerated Emma because of Scott Summers?

Emma was an X-girl on her own before Scott (Generation X). Xavier gave her his blessing.

She is a kind of girl typically disliked by other girls. That didn't change.

4) who will be the next Queen of mutants? Adult Jean Grey? Storm?

I don´t think the X-Girls need or work with the queen concept. Strom and Jean are the stronger X-Women, but i don´t see them as queens. That title is only fit to Emma and it doesn´t last. The concept of queen doesn´t fit the X-Men.

5) teen Jean, Kitty, Storm, Emma should be dead or "take a break" from X books, so other female characters will have a chance to shine.

Don´t think so. Don´t see the need. Every X-Character (women or men) had shined in the past without the need of removing other characters. It the character can only shine in the absense of others then he/she has no light of his/her own.

6) Psylocke should receive more attention and proper treatment. The same can be said about Rogue, Polaris, Dazzler, Magik, Rachel. Or they do not deserve it?

Yes. Though she is doing good in Astonishing right now.

I would like to see more of: Magik, Dazzler and Rogue. They seem to be a bit forgotten in the X-titles this days.

6) Would you like to see other characters in the role of leader instead of the repeated Storm, Emma, ​​Jean, Kitty?

Not necesarly. Just as i don´t need to see someone different from Scott or Xavier as leaders.

Good stories, the right set of skills and personality, and character development had made Scott, Cable and Xavier good leaders. They were not forced into that position by writters to see how cool they´ll look in the role. Their position feels natural and within story. Any new leader should work under those premises.

7) do X teen girls have to stay teen forever or become adults?

Yes (stay teen or around that). Every character should always be around their age. Moving from there should be treated very carefully. This is a difficult one. And it works both on men and female characters.

The age of a character is part of their "stereotype and concept". A lot of someone personality is built into his age, their interests, how they think, what´s importante to them, what they see as the main problems in their lifes... A "love problem" will not flow in the same way in a teen as in an adult, they (most of the time) would react differently. A "parent" has a very different set of priorities in life than a single kid. So the stories to be told are different.

Take Spider-Men. The best spider-man, the spider man they show you in the movies, is the Teen "in school" spider man. Not the bussiness man with old man problems. The teen spider man is just funnier. It´s the original idea for the character.

So changing the age of characters breaks a lot of the context of that character.

This doesn´t mean the character shouldn´t evolve. It´s a treaky balance i guess.

8) Kitty. is she a good leader?

She is ok. It´s good to see her in the role. It means a lot that she is in that role, considering she was the youngest X-Men in the past. It has a meaning in it´s own terms.

I don´t think she is the most intersting leader to writte or read about. I would be happy if (once explored the idea of the young and inmature girl who came to the school who grew up to be a leader) has passed, that leadership would be transfered to a more interesting leader (like Cyclops, or Storm, or adult Jean, Xavier... etc...).

9) Teeen jeen . Does she deserve to be a leader in Blue?

Yes. Best choice after scott. The question is why Scott is not the leader.

10) While Cyclops was the leader of X - race, Marvel tried to "promote"/ make Emma as co-leader/X number 1 female, while ignoring other female characters? (Rogue, Dazzler, Storm, Psylocke)

Emma is a great leader and a strong character, independently of Scott Summers. Wherever she is, she will be important. Its part of her character. She deserves it in her own right. Even if the reasons of why she deserves it are a bit dark. She was an "evil hellfire leader" in her own terms. She was always "at par" with Jean, even before Summers.

11) should Storm restore the lost position of the leader? Or enough solo book?

She should always be near that role, even as sub-lider. It fits her. She will always be important in the jearchy of the X-Men. Seeing her now in Gold, is diminishing to her. She feels like an extra in a movie.

12)
according to Emma Frost fans her relationship with Cyclops has not given Emma any favor / benefit / development / privilege or at least permanency in main X books. She was just arm candy. Do you agree with this?

No. She was never arm candy. She is just a too strong character for that.

[Disciple of Redd]

What's a "Queen of Mutants?"

[oldscottsummers]

I don't think Scemma did any favors for Emma's character, no. It diminished her IMO. Properly written, Emma is a peer of Xavier's, Shaw's, and Magneto's. She should've been Scott's boss, not his partner/second-in-command.

I wonder why Scott should be downcast for Emma?
Why he should be Emma's little bitch?
Why are they cant be equal? Scott spent his whole life training for leadership.
Scott has a natural superior tactical mind among all X men.
Reminder Emma used the rich and powerful men to advance to the highest positions.
She was Shaw's bitch.
Shaw made her the White Queen.

[Wiccan]

I wonder why Scott should be downcast for Emma?
Why he should be Emma's little bitch?
Why are they cant be equal? Scott spent his whole life training for leadership.
Scott has a natural superior tactical mind among all X men.
Reminder Emma used the rich and powerful men to advance to the highest positions.
She was Shaw's bitch.
Shaw made her the White Queen.

Lol it's funny how the minute someone says something about Scott you suddenly don't care about Emma anymore and already starts saying that she was everyone's bitch who used powerful men to advance to high positions. Ironic cause that's pretty much how Scemma went, even if the writers didn't mean it like that.

[oldscottsummers]

What's a "Queen of Mutants?"

everyone understands in his own way.
for me it's the same as Marvel pushing Inhumans down our throats.
Or the one who takes the spotlight from other characters, making them wallpaper.
Or "who leads the show".

[Gortam]

I don't think Scemma did any favors for Emma's character, no. It diminished her IMO. Properly written, Emma is a peer of Xavier's, Shaw's, and Magneto's. She should've been Scott's boss, not his partner/second-in-command.

I do think scott was good for Emma.

I´ve been reading the X-Men for a while, more than 25 years. So i met Emma in her dark days before becoming an X-Woman. The evolution of her character was really interesting in my point of view.

So when a read about Emma being in love with Scott... it blew mi mind. This is why, this is how i lived it:

She was a strong villain, one of the worst the X-men could face. Yet she was interesting, not just the "destroy everything" apocalypse type of villain.

We are informed, thorugh an excelent "kidnapp the body of iceman" saga that she had a weak spot for teaching. Up to this point, the fact that she had this kids / followers... i saw it as an downgraded version of the acolytes (Magneto). But with this story, she was very well portrayd as a "caring" teacher. If you could use the word "caring" for Emma.

Then she moves to Generation X, being a teacher for Xavier. Without a word of doubt, she was the stronger character in the series.

Then we move to Grant Morrison New X-Men.

[UP TO THIS POINT] Even when switching sides and being involved in different stories, this is what I felt about Emma:

a ) In every "era" up to this point, she´s always been looking down to others. Having he exact words to hurt others. Portraing herself as superior, excentric and elitist. Always sexy.

b ) That you never knew where her loyalty was. As an old reader, who read those comics when she imprisoned the x-men. I could never NEVER shake off the feeling that she was going to betray the X-Men. That, once her interest passed, she was going to become their enemy again. I was always waiting for her betrayel or that she did something completle out of the X-Men standards.

But then came Scot Summers in New X-Men.

At first i read Emma as I always read her up to that moment. She is simply screwing up with Jean, fight for the alpha female position. Just being a manipulative jerk as usual. She always seeamd stronger than anyone, even Scott Summers. BUT when i read that she was completly in love with him. For the first time in years of reading Emma Frost, she developed a new kind of deepness. That woman who always looked down on others... was broken down and in love, fighting for her love. It humanized her. She became a real woman with real feelings and problems.

That is what Scott Summers did for the Emma Frost. And i think it was brillant in therms of character development.

[oldscottsummers]

Lol it's funny how the minute someone says something about Scott you suddenly don't care about Emma anymore and already starts saying that she was everyone's bitch who used powerful men to advance to high positions. Ironic cause that's pretty much how Scemma went, even if the writers didn't mean it like that.

Well she slept with Shaw and Namor.
Through sex, she manipulated them. Especially Namor. Well, and Scott. At the beginning of therapy.

[PhoenixStudies]

I just wished it wasn't seen as a competition. We can love all the X-Women. You can love Jean Grey and Emma Frost. You can love Jean and Rachel. We can love Storm, Jean, Emma, Rogue, Rachel, Kitty, Psylocke, Polaris etc all at the same time!

[FUBAR007]

For the first time in years of reading Emma Frost, she developed a new kind of deepness. That woman who always looked down on others... was broken down and in love, fighting for her love. It humanized her. She became a real woman with real feelings and problems.

It's exact thatly humanization I have a problem with. Morrison reduced Emma from a ruthless, high-functioning sociopath to a cliched, mean-girl-with-a-heart-of-gold who just wants to be loved. He made her sad and pitiful.

What made Emma great before Morrison was that she truly was a cast-iron bitch all the way down to her core, but she knew it. Though almost devoid of conscience, she understood intellectually what the greater good was and so, after the slaughter of the Hellions, chose to direct her skills and energies toward that good. She wasn't truly capable of love or a genuine relationship, but that was okay. She had a more important role to play.

During Morrison's run, she became just a mouthy, insecure, and dysfunctional substitute for Jean. Blech.

[FUBAR007]

I wonder why Scott should be downcast for Emma?
Why he should be Emma's little bitch?
Why are they cant be equal?

Because they're not equal.

Scott spent his whole life training for leadership.
Scott has a natural superior tactical mind among all X men.

Yes, a tactical mind. Not a strategic one.

Scott is a battlefield commander, excellent at figuring out the most effective and efficient way to achieve the objective.

Properly written, Emma, like Xavier and Magneto, is the equivalent of a theater-level commander. She plays the politics, works the angles, and weighs the options in order to define the objective.

[Gortam]

It's exact thatly humanization I have a problem with. Morrison reduced Emma from a ruthless, high-functioning sociopath to a cliched, mean-girl-with-a-heart-of-gold who just wants to be loved. He made her sad and pitiful.

What made Emma great before Morrison was that she truly was a cast-iron bitch all the way down to her core, but she knew it. Though almost devoid of conscience, she understood intellectually what the greater good was and so, after the slaughter of the Hellions, chose to direct her skills and energies toward that good. She wasn't truly capable of love or a genuine relationship, but that was okay. She had a more important role to play.

During Morrison's run, she became just a mouthy, insecure, and dysfunctional substitute for Jean. Blech.

But she never ceased to be a "cast-iron bitch". At least i don´t think so. I mean, i didn´t get to feel her as isecure or that she loosed independence because of this love. There´s actually only one panel (that i remember), just one image, of her on her knees throubled by love.

I also don´t see her as turning into a woman with a heart of gold. I read her just as the same person with a problem in her hands. And i was actually quite eager to see how she would react to this new scene that openede before her. Maybe Jean should have stayed alive a bit longer. After she died, Emma had free ride to Scott. Which basically ended the drama.

In any case, i see your point.

On the other hand, before scott. Emma never felt "intimate" or really attached to the X-Men. That she had a personal realtionship with the X-Men and their cause. And her relationship with Scott was that bridge when i sarted to think about her as an X-Woman.

[spirit2011]

I don´t think so... completly. I think Grant Morrisan had a bigger picture in mind for Jean. Jean gone for a while was needed to make Emma and Scott happen, without humiliating Jean. But i believe Grant Morrison had bigger plans for Jean. He introduced the idea of the Eggs and the auto-resurrection of Jean.

It was still quite humiliating

No. Jean was dead because the writers can't stand married couples, and her coming back in the first place was a boondoggle that had no end-game and just cheapened her heroic sacrifice on the moon (taking her one amazing accomplishment and giving it to the Phoenix entity pretending to be her, and replacing it with 'Jean Grey - homewrecker who may or may not actually want to be with Wolverine...').

again slut shaming Jean. And yes jean was dead so emma could replace Jean and stay with Cyclops. this is a truth

[maxhilary]

I just wished it wasn't seen as a competition. We can love all the X-Women. You can love Jean Grey and Emma Frost. You can love Jean and Rachel. We can love Storm, Jean, Emma, Rogue, Rachel, Kitty, Psylocke, Polaris etc all at the same time!

This X1000. All of them are great characters and can all coexist together!

[Sutekh]

I just wished it wasn't seen as a competition. We can love all the X-Women. You can love Jean Grey and Emma Frost. You can love Jean and Rachel. We can love Storm, Jean, Emma, Rogue, Rachel, Kitty, Psylocke, Polaris etc all at the same time!

Yeah. Scratch the surface of any discussion involving Jean or Emma and the 'bitch' word seems to come out. The two characters seem to hate each other less than their fans do...

[Hizashi]

How do y'all think Marvel would have tried going through with Scemma if Jean had lived? I know many her think that Scott wouldn't have been with Emma if Jean had lived, but suppose he did choose to be with Emma, how would y'all see that happening? Killing Jean seemed like too easy a way to get Scemma.