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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Za Waldo View Post
    You loved Hydra Cap? Why?
    Because not everyone is you and your judgement is totally subjective and only pertains to you? Readers of Cap and SE obviously like the storyline, otherwise they wouldn't have read it.

  2. #47
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SignorMiracolo View Post
    Because not everyone is you and your judgement is totally subjective and only pertains to you? Readers of Cap and SE obviously like the storyline, otherwise they wouldn't have read it.
    The only reason I bought issue #10 of Secret Empire was because we saw a return of a more classic Captain America.

    Much as I love the character of Captain America, I gave up on following his title back during Remender's run and then also decided to skip over the latest run(s).

    Looking forward to see if Waid & Samnee can bring back a Cap I enjoy.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SignorMiracolo View Post
    Because not everyone is you and your judgement is totally subjective and only pertains to you? Readers of Cap and SE obviously like the storyline, otherwise they wouldn't have read it.
    As a longtime Cap fan, I loved Hydra Cap and the whole SE storyline, including - maybe especially - all the Sam Wilson Cap stuff. I understand it wasn't for everybody - no story is - but I was riveted by it. I'm happy to see classic Cap back under Waid/Samnee but I always knew "our" Steve would be back one way or the other which made it easy to enjoy Hydra Cap for what it was - a story that would eventually end with a return to the status quo.

  4. #49
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    Call me crazy, but I would have rather Secret Wars universe persisted instead of going to ANAD. Marvel lost purchase from those Domains which were a breath of fresh air. It had everything. Danger, suspense, revisionist characters, and changed situations. Maybe get rid of Doom, but leave Battleworld the way it was, with the Wall, with the Zombies, The Ultrons, and the Thors. Looking back at what Reed did, I was disappointed with ANAD.
    Okay, Mr. Crazy......

    Joking aside, Marvel did continue a few series from "Secret Wars". "Renew Your Vows" is ignoring a few things from the "Secret Wars" series. But, it is keeping the general premise and tone. And, if I am remembering correctly, it is the only one that is still running.

    "Squadron Supreme", "Red Wolf" "Weirdworld" and "X-Men '92" all continued in some way from their "Secret Wars" predecessors. All 3 series had a unique premise, tone and aesthetic. And, all 3 are kaput.

    I would have been fine with Battleworld or Battlerealm sticking around. There variety of settings and deliberately loose rules would have been a good mechanism for Marvel to try out new or experimental series. But, after "Contest of Champions" ended, is is safe to assume that Battleworld/realm will show up as little more than a footnote.


    Weird that X-Men '92 ended so quickly; I recall that it was very well-received when it was the Secret Wars mini. It was also a continuation of that old cartoon that a lot of people seem to love.
    "X-Men '92" was a joke series. The "Secret Wars" series was a close to a perfect riff on the 90s as I have ever read. (The only other contender would be DC's "Lord Havok and the Extremists", and that was a decade ago.) The only thing missing was mock video game ads. (90s comics were loaded with game ads.) But, I am not sure that the joke was worth an ongoing series.


    The weirdest thing about Secret Wars it it was sold as being this thing that would shake things up, but it went right back to business as usual once it ended, and Marvel did nothing to push the very few good titles they had coming out of it.
    Part of me wonders if Marvel got cold feet during, or right before, "Secret Wars". The lead up, and comments made by Marvel reps, gave me the impression that they were getting rid of the alternate universes. Even some of the early post-"Secret Wars" series danced around this. But, as you pointed out, nothing really changed.


    Felt like an idea someone had without any thought of where it was going, like the only concept that was there at the being was "What if Captain America was a Nazi"? I mean, you don't really have to know how you're going to do everything beforehand, but when that's you're idea you probably should have a good out for the end before going forward.
    The base premise of "Secret Empire" is that no leader or organization (no matter how good) is beyond corruption, and thus should not be above questioning. Absolute power may not corrupt absolutely, but it makes the prospect of any corruption all the more terrible.

    That is a solid idea, and it is perfect for superhero comics. Captain America, a character that is meant to embody the virtuous state/leader is the perfect character for that idea. The problem is that Spencer is a toxic mix of polemical and hyper-partisan.

    Put another way, I like the idea but the writer was the wrong person to carry it off.


    These are crossovers not event, a single story told throughout multiple books. It's never been possible to only read parts of a crossover. Only difference with the past instead of a crossover with different writers writing different books the writers are writing everything together. But the end result doesn't change.
    If the writers stay on their own series, it is possible to just follow the creative teams that you normally would. Putting the writers together makes it an "all or nothing" question.

    I am conflicted about these upcoming events. I do not want people (myself included) to be stuck with bad comics. But, part of me wants these events to fail. We all know that if "Venom Inc", "Phoenix: Rebirth" or "No Surrender" succeed, Marvel is going to use the same model on larger events/crossovers/whatever. And, that is not going to be fun for readers on a budget.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    If the writers stay on their own series, it is possible to just follow the creative teams that you normally would. Putting the writers together makes it an "all or nothing" question.

    I am conflicted about these upcoming events. I do not want people (myself included) to be stuck with bad comics. But, part of me wants these events to fail. We all know that if "Venom Inc", "Phoenix: Rebirth" or "No Surrender" succeed, Marvel is going to use the same model on larger events/crossovers/whatever. And, that is not going to be fun for readers on a budget.
    Again, maybe it's the first time you see that, but crossovers have always worked this way. Yes, you could only buy the book you were already reading but it was like buying each other issue of a book, cross overs are not event with tie-ins, they are stories that start in a book, continue in another and so on, buying only a book involved in a crossover doesn't make sense, it would be like buying issue 1, 3 and 5 and of a 6 issues miniseries. Yes, you can buy it, but it makes more sense to just skip the story that not knowing what happens in issues 2 and 4 and how the story ends.

  6. #51
    Mighty Member TheFerg714's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SignorMiracolo View Post
    Again, maybe it's the first time you see that, but crossovers have always worked this way. Yes, you could only buy the book you were already reading but it was like buying each other issue of a book, cross overs are not event with tie-ins, they are stories that start in a book, continue in another and so on, buying only a book involved in a crossover doesn't make sense, it would be like buying issue 1, 3 and 5 and of a 6 issues miniseries. Yes, you can buy it, but it makes more sense to just skip the story that not knowing what happens in issues 2 and 4 and how the story ends.
    Well ideally, you wouldn't have to read the entire crossover to get a compelling story. Ideally, one could only read their ongoing series and exclude everything else, and should still understand what's going on. I understand that most crossovers aren't really like that, but the best ones are. I have no problem with crossovers and "mini"-events, but I am also scared that Marvel's going to see the inevitable success of Venom Inc, Phoenix Resurrection, and No Surrender, and try to replicate it on a bigger scale like they've been doing for the last decade.
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I don't get that mindset, to be honest. Good stories are good stories (although, to be fair, telling me that a story is part of the main Marvel continuity is a turn-off for me).

    Weird that X-Men '92 ended so quickly; I recall that it was very well-received when it was the Secret Wars mini. It was also a continuation of that old cartoon that a lot of people seem to love.
    I can kind of get it, at least in small children. But it makes no sense at all when it comes to adults. But it's also the way Marvel and DC have conditioned their audience for decades. Then again I'm kind of surprised to see you say you don't get that mindset given how hardcore you seem to be into the idea that all Star Wars things are totally in continuity right now.

    I don't find it too weird. Great as it was, and it was one of the few good things Marvel has put out in the last two years, it wasn't mainline X-Men that was "important" to the big picture or whatever. Even if those main "important" X-Men comics weren't as good.

    It wasn't really a continuation of the old cartoon. Like it was, but it wasn't. It was only pseudoly connected in a tangential kind of way. It was more playing off an idea of the X-Men from that era of X-Men. If they'd of just given Chris Sims and Chad Bowers a X-Men comic in continuity to do the same thing they were in '92, it'd probably have lasted longer.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SignorMiracolo View Post
    Because not everyone is you and your judgement is totally subjective and only pertains to you? Readers of Cap and SE obviously like the storyline, otherwise they wouldn't have read it.
    Wait, you're not even the person I was talking to. Given your reaction you'd think this wasn't some kind of forum where people talk about comic books.

  9. #54
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Za Waldo View Post
    I can kind of get it, at least in small children. But it makes no sense at all when it comes to adults. But it's also the way Marvel and DC have conditioned their audience for decades. Then again I'm kind of surprised to see you say you don't get that mindset given how hardcore you seem to be into the idea that all Star Wars things are totally in continuity right now.
    Well, there is the subjective element (I really like the Star Wars canon while on paper, very little about current 616 Marvel interests me -- All-New Wolverine and Runaways notwithstanding). However, I have found I like multiple continuities of stuff I'm a fan of (e.g. Spider-Man), so I tend to prioritize whether I like the story or the series, not whether it's the "real" version (which seems kind of silly in a multiverse-set franchise in the first place).

    As far as Star Wars goes, I like both the canon and non-canon aspects of it; I just like having the two on different shelves of the bookcase, if that makes any sense, and am currently finding that the canon is where most of my enjoyment is. (Also, if I'm taking a harder stance on Star Wars canon, it's not that the other stuff doesn't matter, but for having accurate discussions about the canon iteration of that franchise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Za Waldo View Post
    I don't find it too weird. Great as it was, and it was one of the few good things Marvel has put out in the last two years, it wasn't mainline X-Men that was "important" to the big picture or whatever. Even if those main "important" X-Men comics weren't as good.
    Well, given how the '90s cartoon has such a following with people (esp. with ones old enough to be customers), I guess I thought it would have a bit of a built-in audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Za Waldo View Post
    It wasn't really a continuation of the old cartoon. Like it was, but it wasn't. It was only pseudoly connected in a tangential kind of way. It was more playing off an idea of the X-Men from that era of X-Men. If they'd of just given Chris Sims and Chad Bowers a X-Men comic in continuity to do the same thing they were in '92, it'd probably have lasted longer.
    Okay. I didn't actually read it (the movies and the Evolution cartoon are what I'm into, not the old cartoon), but I thought the marketing was saying it was a continuation, not a new thing inspired by it.
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  10. #55
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    Well, Captain Marvel and America are pretty much the same below average to terrible quality, so I'm not really seeing Legacy's improvements on these titles at least. Maybe the quality and good aspects are with the other titles.

  11. #56
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    WebLurker :
    Well, given how the '90s cartoon has such a following with people (esp. with ones old enough to be customers), I guess I thought it would have a bit of a built-in audience.
    but it wasn't like x-men tas.
    this was parody of x-men tas.
    and...
    this series had much more x-men and that's why no one had any personal story.
    almost all x-men had 1-2 panels per issue because they added like 40 additional x-men to tas roster.

  12. #57

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    Nothing announced so far made me touch a Legacy book, most of my favorites vanished from print with the new initiative.
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  13. #58
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    I've liked what I've seen so far.

    ASM's "Fall of Parker" has a nice back to basics feel and Waid/Samnee's CAP #695 is about as good as an opening issue can get.

  14. #59
    Traveler of omniverses Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    There are no big changes nor big shake ups nor change of directions but a continuation from what precede the special.
    If you like it the Marvel from the last two years, you are lucky.
    If you don't like the Marvel from the last two years, try again in 2019.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFerg714 View Post
    Well ideally, you wouldn't have to read the entire crossover to get a compelling story.
    The point of a crossover is that one or more books "cross over" to tell a complete story. It's right there in the name.

    A crossover isn't about books simply existing in the same shared universe, they're not tangential tie ins to a larger event, it's about a single story being told across multiple titles so, yes, you actually would have to read the entire story to get the entire story.

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