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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I would have liked no Multiverse formed and just Battleworld the only reality for about 18 months after Dooms overthrow, rather than what we got - a hotch potch of a jumbled mess trying to make the real 616 viable again with added OML, etc. I’d much rather Battleworld in the state it was in.
    That could've been one way to go, although I think a multiverse probably simplifies things a bit; stuff doesn't blend unless the writers want to. At any rate, I find it makes stuff easier to sort out (although I am a Trekkie, so wrapping my head around mulitiverses, and reality warping in fiction is super easy for me).
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  2. #77
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    There is no inherent contradiction to having a multiverse *and* something like Battleworld (or Battlerealm).

    The question is how much value does either add? What use are writers or editors getting out of them?

    "Contest of Champions" ended with a partially restored Battleworld. But, I doubt any writer besides Al Ewing has many plans to use it. (It is not even clear if Ewing has any plans for Battleworld.) Put another way, Battleworld may as well not be there. Is Marvel even pushing the "Contest of Champions" game at this point?

    Look at DC's multi-verse. A decade ago, they were setting up for something that they promised would be huge. They made a formal effort to bring back their multiverse (after ~20 years). DC then spent a year working through their multiverse....with some of the most tedious and cliche comics imaginable. (When one of the better comics is a deliberately crass riff on the 90s, there is a serious problem.) Morrison's plans were delayed and eventually fell apart. A later multiverse event, "Convergence", was a series of dumb one-shots.

    "Dark Knights: Metal" is a cliche (evil twins from another dimension) focused on an over-exposed character.

    Is a multiverse really adding any value this case? Is it inherently better (or worse) than something like Battleworld. (DC's "Earth 51" is more or less Battleworld. Guess what DC ain't using.)



    And thatís what bothered me about ANAD. It was more of the same old 616 when we just had this refreshing reinvention of the super heroes in Secret Wars. Dark Reign was something similar to Secret Wars, and that lasted 18 months, where the whole status quo was turned upside down. What Battleworld did was take the reader out of 616 continuity, and to just flush that away with Reed Richards, just fell flat.
    I remember a certain amount of fans crying about "Dark Reign" (which was nearly a decade ago....yikes).

    "Secret Wars" was a fun event. And, it was well constructed. (Readers could pick up as much or as little as they wanted.) But, as evidenced by the high failure rate of the follow-up series, the market does not necessarily have a place for things that deviate too much from mainline Marvel.

    I liked "Red Wolf", and wanted to see where Edmunson was going with it. "X-Men "92" could have, albeit with some retooling, tapped in to the same market as Deadpool. "Weirdworld" should have had a place in the market. But, the sales were not there. Would "Renew Your Vows" have lasted if Marvel brought MJ back to the mainline Spider-Man comics, or if "Renew Your Vows" were not a Spider-series?
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    There is no inherent contradiction to having a multiverse *and* something like Battleworld (or Battlerealm).

    The question is how much value does either add? What use are writers or editors getting out of them?

    "Contest of Champions" ended with a partially restored Battleworld. But, I doubt any writer besides Al Ewing has many plans to use it. (It is not even clear if Ewing has any plans for Battleworld.) Put another way, Battleworld may as well not be there.
    Just because no one is using it at the moment doesn't mean it's not good to have it out there. Not every aspect of the MU can be in play at all times. I'm sure that at some point, someone's going to find a use for the reconstituted Battleworld.

  4. #79
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    I agree in theory. In practice, however, the most likely use for Battleworld will be as disposable fodder for an event.
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    There is no inherent contradiction to having a multiverse *and* something like Battleworld (or Battlerealm).

    The question is how much value does either add? What use are writers or editors getting out of them?
    At the end of the day, that is kind of subjective, based on what people want out their comics and what they think makes for good writing.


    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Would "Renew Your Vows" have lasted if Marvel brought MJ back to the mainline Spider-Man comics, or if "Renew Your Vows" were not a Spider-series?
    As to the former, I'm not sure, but given that the the series was marketed with the idea that they were a family again (something that we've been promised will never happen again in 616), I guess it's possible. As to the latter, I'm not sure how to answer that; RYV was a Spider-Man series. You can't really take that out of it; it'd become something different.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
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  6. #81
    Spectacular Member Bloodbones's Avatar
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    I really liked the Captain America #695!

  7. #82
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbones View Post
    I really liked the Captain America #695!
    Too bad some moron went ahead with the "Legacy Primer" pages at the end of an issue where the first page of the main story presented similar information on Cap's WWII-era origin.
    (They could have waited until a different issue to include that!)


  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    There is no inherent contradiction to having a multiverse *and* something like Battleworld (or Battlerealm).

    The question is how much value does either add? What use are writers or editors getting out of them?

    "Contest of Champions" ended with a partially restored Battleworld. But, I doubt any writer besides Al Ewing has many plans to use it. (It is not even clear if Ewing has any plans for Battleworld.) Put another way, Battleworld may as well not be there. Is Marvel even pushing the "Contest of Champions" game at this point?

    Look at DC's multi-verse. A decade ago, they were setting up for something that they promised would be huge. They made a formal effort to bring back their multiverse (after ~20 years). DC then spent a year working through their multiverse....with some of the most tedious and cliche comics imaginable. (When one of the better comics is a deliberately crass riff on the 90s, there is a serious problem.) Morrison's plans were delayed and eventually fell apart. A later multiverse event, "Convergence", was a series of dumb one-shots.

    "Dark Knights: Metal" is a cliche (evil twins from another dimension) focused on an over-exposed character.

    Is a multiverse really adding any value this case? Is it inherently better (or worse) than something like Battleworld. (DC's "Earth 51" is more or less Battleworld. Guess what DC ain't using.)





    I remember a certain amount of fans crying about "Dark Reign" (which was nearly a decade ago....yikes).

    "Secret Wars" was a fun event. And, it was well constructed. (Readers could pick up as much or as little as they wanted.) But, as evidenced by the high failure rate of the follow-up series, the market does not necessarily have a place for things that deviate too much from mainline Marvel.

    I liked "Red Wolf", and wanted to see where Edmunson was going with it. "X-Men "92" could have, albeit with some retooling, tapped in to the same market as Deadpool. "Weirdworld" should have had a place in the market. But, the sales were not there. Would "Renew Your Vows" have lasted if Marvel brought MJ back to the mainline Spider-Man comics, or if "Renew Your Vows" were not a Spider-series?
    All your concerns are relevant, and I could not be present in creative conferences that would have asked those same questions of whether one would be better than the other.

    I just wish Marvel could have decided the Battleworld formula was worth trying, with Doom out of the way, and most of the structure (like the Wall and Thor Corp) were still in effect. I lament that that could worked, but I don’t know for sure. Placing those backup stories in a ANAD context wasn’t successul, no. But leaving them in their respective Battleworld Domains I thought, had a lot of potential. It would only have worked for a limited time, and eventually would have had to be brought into the ANAD at some point, though.
    Last edited by jackolover; 11-24-2017 at 11:12 PM.

  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Just because no one is using it at the moment doesn't mean it's not good to have it out there. Not every aspect of the MU can be in play at all times. I'm sure that at some point, someone's going to find a use for the reconstituted Battleworld.
    My LCS owner shoved a Captain Marvel Legacy issue in my hand this week, and that could have been set on Battleworld. I didn’t want to take the book, but it was really starting to wind up as Dark Reign of inverted super heroes, very similar to a concept for Battleworld. Now I think I am going to have to get this, because the concept is too tantalising.

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