Did anyone else stop loving the DCU after Flashpoint?

[SiegePerilous02]

Nah, no way would a true "return to start" reboot fly with fans. There's been too much development, growth, and evolution. A lot of fan favorites wouldn't be around in a true return to start reboot, and a lot of fan favorites would be devolved back into roles they've long outgrown.

Look at the reaction fans had to the changes made to Tim Drake in the New52. Look at how they reacted to Wally West not being around (or even mentioned). Looking at these reactions, there's no way they'd accept Dick Grayson as Robin again and no sign or mention of Tim, Jason, Damien, Cass, or Steph.

You cant fix things with reduction. Too much good stuff gets left behind and fans are greedy, they're not gonna go without and not bitch and moan.

I don't think a reboot was going to go down well with fans (at least not all of them) no matter what for much of the reasons you listed. But if a reboot is happening and you want to keep the new canon fresher with a shorter timeline, you logically can't put multiple generations of heroes into it because there isn't enough time for more than the first generation to be barely established.

I'm not saying that rebooting/reduction were the only possible solution, or the most desirable one. But go all out, because trying to keep too many things in an alleged clean slate/new universe defeats the purpose and just creates problems. Just look at what happened in 1986.

[MajorHoy]

. . . Really great comics like the JSA and Red Robin, Conner Kent in Adventure Comics which are like highlights from the era for me, all instantly canceled overnight?!? It was more than my little heart could take to put it mildly.

But, at that point, it had been a while since Justice Society of America was a "really great" comic.



#sad

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

But, at that point, it had been a while since Justice Society of America was a "really great" comic.



#sad

Well, I'd still probably say that that JSA is a whole lot better than the no JSA we currently have thanks to the New 52.

[Ascended]

I don't think a reboot was going to go down well with fans (at least not all of them) no matter what for much of the reasons you listed. But if a reboot is happening and you want to keep the new canon fresher with a shorter timeline, you logically can't put multiple generations of heroes into it because there isn't enough time for more than the first generation to be barely established.

I'm not saying that rebooting/reduction were the only possible solution, or the most desirable one. But go all out, because trying to keep too many things in an alleged clean slate/new universe defeats the purpose and just creates problems. Just look at what happened in 1986.

This is true. But that's sort of my point; reboots are always a mistake. As you say, there's other options available. None of them are perfectly clean and some fans are gonna get a hair across their asses no matter what.....but there's relatively good decisions that'll ruffle some feathers.....and then there's stupid decisions that piss off everyone and hamper long-term business viability.

I am in general agreement that if you're gonna reboot, you might as well go all out and not half-ass it. I mean, I've said a few times I sorta wish the New52 had been all new faces and mythologies with no connections of any kind to established characters like Hal and Barry. But that's still a bad idea that'll cost you a lot of readers.

Well, I'd still probably say that that JSA is a whole lot better than the no JSA we currently have thanks to the New 52.

I dunno.....if *that* is the JSA we'd get I think I'd rather have no JSA at all.

[Assam]

I dunno.....if *that* is the JSA we'd get I think I'd rather have no JSA at all.

I think the last JSA story that was really good was probably the single issue story centered around Courtney's birthday.

[Jokerz79]

I loved the JSA and their Legacy, I loved the Titans and their Legacy, I loved Oracle, Cassie, Birds of Prey, and Stephanie, I loved Wally, Connor, and Kyle, so yes while I still liked some characters the DCU was ruined as a whole by Flashpoint and New 52 but I'm happy Rebirth is staring to change it for the better IMO.

[Lee Stone]

The things I really liked about the DCU just prior to Flashpoint:

1. Their non-Green Lantern cosmic/space heroes were finally getting some attention, beginning with Adam Strange: Planet Heist and Rann/Thanagar War.

2. Starfire (and Blackfire/Vega) became more important to the DCU up through Rebels, finally living up to the potential shown in Cosmic Odyssey for her to be a major player (which was a lucky break, since she was a fill-in for Wonder Woman, who Starlin couldn't use).

2. Gotham Central and Brubaker's Catwoman.

3. Generation Lost gave the hope of a new JLI series with the characters returning to glory, with a rich history behind them.

4. Seven Soldiers of Victory revived several old characters, bringing Klarion, Frankenstein and Shining Knight into the modern day, as well as giving Zatanna a great story and a protege.

Some of what we lost:

JLI's rich history together.
The Satellite League's history together.
The Detroit League.
The Titans' history together.
The Doom Patrol's sacrifice, and Changeling and Robotman's closure of the events in New Teen Titans.
The JSA.
Zatanna's search for her father, and her eventual loss of him when he sacrificed himself to save her in American Gothic.
Great Darkness Saga.
Judas Contract.
The Books of Magic and Tim Hunter's journey following it.
Legends and the definition of what it meant to be a hero in the DCU that resulted from that story.
The bigger DCU galaxy of Rann, Thanagar and the Vega System, and the histories of each of them.

[DJ1107]

I think the last JSA story that was really good was probably the single issue story centered around Courtney's birthday.

I'd argue the Convergence tie-in but maybe that's just the desperation of needing anything good for the JSA especially after Earth 2 World's End.

[BohemiaDrinker]

No, but I don't love it as much.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I dunno.....if *that* is the JSA we'd get I think I'd rather have no JSA at all.

Personally, even if the stories weren't as good as they once were, I'd still have them existing with the chance of getting a better writer as opposed to being erased from the universe so that no writer could write them at all.

[Lee Stone]

Personally, even if the stories weren't as good as they once were, I'd still have them existing with the chance of getting a better writer as opposed to being erased from the universe so that no writer could write them at all.

True...
Both Guy Gardner and Booster Gold managed to come back after their fashion blunders...



(Apologies to anyone who's blocked these from memory.)

[steeplejack2112]

The New 52 didn't thrill me much at all. There were few if any lasting good impressions for me.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I think if they didn't tie the JSA to WWII, it would make things a lot easier. Having them tied to WWII makes them older and older the farther away from WWII that we get.

[MajorHoy]

I think if they didn't tie the JSA to WWII, it would make things a lot easier. Having them tied to WWII makes them older and older the farther away from WWII that we get.

And not tying them to WWII . . . makes them very generic.
They lose what makes them special when they don't have the background of the Great Depression and WWII. They could just as well be a bunch of superheroes written by Rob Liefeld without that historical touchstone.

[sakuyamons]

No, but I don't love it as much.

Agreed.