Did anyone else stop loving the DCU after Flashpoint?

[Denirac]

Agreed.

I agree too, but I wouldnt say I 'liked it less' as much as I couldnt recognise it, and hence 'couldnt like it as much'

[Ascended]

Personally, even if the stories weren't as good as they once were, I'd still have them existing with the chance of getting a better writer as opposed to being erased from the universe so that no writer could write them at all.

I'm uncertain, myself.

On the one hand, a property can always bounce back after a bad creative team. And someone already posted Guy's Warrior phase and Booster's X-TREME armor from the 90's as proof.

But on the other hand, unless the character/title in question has a Bat, S shield, or some other well known icon on it.....the book might not last beyond that bad creative team. And even in the examples someone posted above, how many years did it take Guy to get beyond Warrior? And how many books did he star in during that time?

Sometimes I think its better to put an IP on the shelf until someone comes along who wants to play with it. But sometimes maybe you're right and its better to weather the bad stories and directions and creators......

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I'm uncertain, myself.

On the one hand, a property can always bounce back after a bad creative team. And someone already posted Guy's Warrior phase and Booster's X-TREME armor from the 90's as proof.

But on the other hand, unless the character/title in question has a Bat, S shield, or some other well known icon on it.....the book might not last beyond that bad creative team. And even in the examples someone posted above, how many years did it take Guy to get beyond Warrior? And how many books did he star in during that time?

Sometimes I think its better to put an IP on the shelf until someone comes along who wants to play with it. But sometimes maybe you're right and its better to weather the bad stories and directions and creators......

I mean, I think that the JSA before Flashpoint was one of those DC franchises that would have a book as long as DC was in business. But, even acknowledging that there is a point where we should put things on the shelf, there's a difference between cancelling the title, with the characters still part of the universe and what we currently have, where they've been erased wholesale from continuity.

In the former scenario, DC can simply just launch a new title at any time. In the latter scenario, they've literally taken a potentially profitable franchise off the board completely. They've basically removed them from the universe so that no title could be launched without some convoluted continuity alteration.

[reni344]

I missed some things, but I was reading more books than ever during the New 52 and DCU periods first time I was reading every Batman title month to month, I read Aquaman for the first time, Justice Leauge Dark, Red Hood and the Outlaws, Robin: Son of Batman, Gotham Acadamy, and many others for the first time. And reading about these characters in the New52 made me more curious to go back and read pre-52 books. I liked Jason being part of the Batfamily again I was not a fan pre-52, I loved Batman and Robin it was the New 52 book I enjoyed the most. Only things I missed was a better Catwoman title a Red Robin title cause that was the only time I liked Tim, I missed Conner and Bart and the JSA. But I still found things I enjoyed.

[The Darknight Detective]

No...can't say that I did. FLASHPOINT did change a lot, and there were huge swaths of changes that I didn't agree with, but I could understand why they were done and, after all, it wasn't the first time (ahem...COIE...ahem).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Man, it feels like Groundhog's Day all of the time on this site, BA. It seems I have seen this topic rehashed at least a thousand times (yes, hyperbole) now.

[WebLurker]

Man, it feels like Groundhog's Day all of the time on this site, BA. It seems I have seen this topic rehashed at least a thousand times (yes, hyperbole) now.

Sounds like business as usual for fans of anything online. (Heck, we Spidey fans are still debating "One More Day" ten years after the fact.)

[The Darknight Detective]

Sounds like business as usual for fans of anything online. (Heck, we Spidey fans are still debating "One More Day" ten years after the fact.)

Heh. That's true, but certain topics get replayed many more times than others.

[geomon]

New 52 damn near killed DC Comics for me. I went from reading every Batman or Bat related book I could get my hands on to reading none within 2 years of the switch. By the time New 52 ended with Rebirth, I was down to reading just one DC Comics book, Earth 2.

[Factor]

I've been re-reading and reading for the first stuff from the Pre-Flashpoint universe and I think that not even with Rebirth I'm regaining the passion I used to feel for this universe.

I feel like the long history gave these characters a lot more depth and personality. Even though they're restoring legacy and the hero community, it's not the same without the real history. I liked when a writer came and built up upon decades of continuity to make something even bigger. Characters lost their development and nothing much of value was made up to replace what was lost. Sometimes I feel like they are empty hollow shells of their former selves. I think the DCU is a less wonderful place without all the history. It was something unique in comics, it was a shame to lose it.

Not to start a Marvel vs. DC thread, but people always say Marvel characters are a lot more interesting than DC's which I've always said it's a lie that people who don't really read DC say. But I think after Flashpoint, they're right.

I mostly agree. I think it's even more noticeable with the Titans. They're bland copies of what they used to be, without none of the history.
Judas Contract was a terrible. DC seem to think they can just replace the characters and keep the story similar. Stories are about characters thought. Without them they lose all substance. Titans definitely did.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

And not tying them to WWII . . . makes them very generic.
They lose what makes them special when they don't have the background of the Great Depression and WWII. They could just as well be a bunch of superheroes written by Rob Liefeld without that historical touchstone.

But then you can't have them in the main universe. In 10 years (comic time) they'd all be dead. WWII vets are becoming a rare breed these days.

[Assam]

But then you can't have them in the main universe. In 10 years (comic time) they'd all be dead. WWII vets are becoming a rare breed these days.

Pre-FP, all of the still living members older members had explanations as to how they were still alive/active. They could just come up with new/ reuse explanations.

Also, you'll find that a lot of people, for reasons I don't quite understand, don't want the JSA on the main DC Earth.

[reni344]

Pre-FP, all of the still living members older members had explanations as to how they were still alive/active. They could just come up with new/ reuse explanations.

Also, you'll find that a lot of people, for reasons I don't quite understand, don't want the JSA on the main DC Earth.

I have heard the arguments for not having the JSA on the main universe before usually, it is people who don't believe they are essential to the DC mythos and want Batman, Superman to be the and the Justice Leauge to be the first Superheroes in the DC Universe.

I don't agree with these arguments I think the JSA being in main universe makes more sense, I don't like Batman and Superman and the rest of the Justice League show up but there is nothing before them. That does not make sense.

[The Darknight Detective]

I have heard the arguments for not having the JSA on the main universe before usually, it is people who don't believe they are essential to the DC mythos and want Batman, Superman to be the and the Justice Leauge to be the first Superheroes in the DC Universe.

I don't agree with these arguments I think the JSA being in main universe makes more sense, I don't like Batman and Superman and the rest of the Justice League show up but there is nothing before them. That does not make sense.

I personally would rather have them on their own separate Earth because 1) they can be just as powerful as the Justice League and don't have to take a back seat to them, 2) legacies can flourish over there, which is much harder to accomplish when the JL Trinity is not allowed to enter middle age, and 3) the Silver Age heroes don't have to be legacies (something they weren't for decades).

I honestly don't see a single benefit having them all together on one planet, except to feed nostalgia., That's perfectly fine, BTW - we all succumb to it at some point.

[Maxi]

I have heard the arguments for not having the JSA on the main universe before usually, it is people who don't believe they are essential to the DC mythos and want Batman, Superman to be the and the Justice Leauge to be the first Superheroes in the DC Universe.

I don't agree with these arguments I think the JSA being in main universe makes more sense, I don't like Batman and Superman and the rest of the Justice League show up but there is nothing before them. That does not make sense.

How does it not make sense? They were the first superheroes in real life and also in universe, originally. It was after they erased the Trinity from the Golden Age history that others that originally came after them took precedence over them.

That being said, I like having the JSA in the main universe, but I'm trying to be unbiased.

[Assam]

I honestly don't see a single benefit having them all together on one planet, except to feed nostalgia., That's perfectly fine, BTW - we all succumb to it at some point.

The "benefit" for me is character interaction. I want Jay to be able to run with the rest of the Flash Family, Alan to get drinks with the other GLs at Guy's bar (Now wanting Guy's bar back might just be nostalgia ), and just all sorts of team-ups. Having the JSA on their own Earth doesn't allow for any of that.