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  1. #46
    More eldritch than thou Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    No. All of those small, unique stories, especially those found in the non-Amazing titles, would be gone. The long, built-up history would be gone, and no matter how good the writers were, we'd probably get a greatest hits-type series, with all of the major villains being rushed to the fore right away and alot of the lesser known characters being shoved aside. It would probably have more in common with the new cartoon than with the current comic book universe.
    "I should describe my known nature as tripartite, my interests consisting of three parallel and disassociated groups; a) love of the strange and the fantastic, b) love of abstract truth and scientific logic, c) love of the ancient and the permanent. Sundry combinations of these strains will probably account for my...odd tastes, and eccentricities."

  2. #47
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    Spider-Man poses a unique problem that no other comic characters seem to have. His story is not so much a coming-of-age story but a story about growing up. It has been since Amazing Fantasy 15 when he first learned first hand how cruel the world can be.

    He’d graduated high school before issue 30 (if memory serves, close to 30 anyway).

    He’s the relatable hero because growing older is the one thing everyone can relate to.

    Batman, Superman, Iron Man. They were all adults when we met them. Johnny Storm was part of a team. I can’t think of a single teen superhero with success even close to Spider-Man’s that hasn’t grown up.

    There is a feeling at Marvel since the 90s that Peter needs to stay young, but then you get things like clones and devil deals and Parker industries. These things that are just too out there for the character. Ditko didn’t even like him fighting Sandman, imagine what he’d think of Parker Industries?

    Spider-Man has the best supporting cast in comics and the richest continuity of all comics too. I mean, has Iron Man been through as much in his time? If you picked up an early Iron Man and then one from a few decades later, you’d probably be excused for thinking you didn’t miss much. Could the same be said for Spider-Man?

    I don’t think so. Change and growth is what defines him, quite strange for a character from serialised fiction.

    People tend to discover Spider-Man when they’re young, and relate to his feelings of being ostracised. It’s harder, but not impossible, to relate to an adult because even thoug Peter has always been ostracised it is less obvious when he’s out of a school setting. We want kids to still discover and relate to the character, but if you keep him trapped as a kid it can throw out the whole line of Marvel comics continuity.

    I don’t think Spider-Man can be rebooted without rebooting all of Marvel. Even with OMD they only rebooted half of his history. And it’s a great history. Part of what sets Marvel apart from DC is their history.

    I don’t think Marvel should reboot Spider-Man, but I think they need to realise that he will never be able to return to the 20 year old guy living with Aunt May and going to class. He’s a guy clearly in his early 30s by now despite their efforts to tell us otherwise, he has been since the late 90s.

    I think Marvel should just embrace the characters history and focus on good storytelling, he’s never going back to how they want him to be because he never was that. He’s always been growing.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    Spidey has actually tied or maybe surpassed the X-Men for convoluted history. It’s time to at least address how best to streamline things for the future. That’s all I’m saying.
    I have to disagree here. I don’t think his history is all that convoluted. Up to the first relaunch of Amazing his history was fairly simple.

    The actress Aunt May thing was weird, but explained. His child got ‘murdered’ by Osborn, but readers know she’s still out there. It’s again, bit of a mess, but also a plot point waiting to be picked up on again.

    It’s only with One More Day that things get a bit crazier, but that’s easy enough to explain away too.

    The XMen are too hard to figure out. Alternative futures, Cyclops a bad guy etc. I don’t think we are anywhere near their level of screwed-upness yet

  4. #49
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Looking at the pros and cons...

    Pros...
    It will be more accessible to new readers when the series doesn't deal with 50+ years of backstory.
    The series will soon develop its own continuity to provide forward momentum, and keep readers invested.
    Peter Parker will be growing up in a very different environment than in the original comics, so that allows for new stories, and means Marvel doesn't have to be constrained making the current Spider-Man fit the backstory of a character introduced in the 1960s.
    The writers can play with readers' knowledge of the old comics.
    Ultimate Spider-Man showed that you can retell major beats while telling new stories.
    It will be closer to the version of the character in movies and TV.
    The writers could have a better idea of where they want the story to go (they could introduce Mary Jane as someone who secretly knows that Peter is Spider-Man.)
    Gets Spider-Man closer to his core if the important thing is that he's the hero who is young.

    Cons...
    The adult Spider-Man in his early to mid 20s has been in some good stories (Kraven's Last Hunt, Spider Island, Superior Spider-Man, Unscheduled Stop)
    Why would readers be invested in a new take on Spider-Man?
    You need a hell of a creative team to make it work. If it's mediocre the foundation of the hard reboot will suffer.
    It's tough to have a better foundation than Lee/ Ditko or Lee/ Romita.
    If the first creative team is good, can you promise that about the next?
    The first few years would be spent setting up material readers already know (IE- the introduction of Mary Jane, the alien costume saga, the Stacys)
    What exactly is the effect on the entire Marvel Universe?
    By the time it's done Tom Holland might no longer be playing high school age Spidey.
    Gets Spider-man further from his core if the important thing is that he's the hero who grew up.
    While Peter being a top photographer while in high school/ college is a bit anachronistic, what's the alternative?
    We'll have seen many of the beats before numerous times (IE- Venom's first appearance from ASM 300, the Ultimate comics, the Fox animated series, the Spectacular series, and the 2007 film.)
    What exactly is the effect on the Marvel Universe?
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    I blame the readers for not buying Spidey.

    (Or did they say that was meant to be limited? There was so much muddled information on that book.)

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Why would readers be invested in a new take on Spider-Man?
    Maybe I'm looking at this weird, but wouldn't love for the character himself kind of make investment in a new take fairly easy? Granted, a new version or a retool may not be to everyone's taste (as the OMD controversy shows), but the fact that many comic book fans love the movies seems to suggest that readers can get invested in new takes. Granted there is a difference between a new coexisting version and a replacement (as a Trekkie, I don't really like the Abrams reboot that much, even if the lore is that the old and new coexist in the same multiverse), but it still seems something worth thinking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    I blame the readers for not buying Spidey.

    (Or did they say that was meant to be limited? There was so much muddled information on that book.)
    I got the two trade paperbacks and would've gotten more had the series continued.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    I blame the readers for not buying Spidey.

    (Or did they say that was meant to be limited? There was so much muddled information on that book.)
    Yeah, at one point they said it was a definitive prequel book did'nt they? Then the book landed and it was an obvious AU.

    Also, there were early plans to use MJ, which never materialized

  8. #53
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    ASM doesn't need a hard reboot. It needs a strong storyline that actually matters and is permanent in it's consequences. That hasn't happened in ASM for a long time. Oldschool is right about "Illusion of Change". SpOck - everyone knew Pete would be back, Parker Industries - it was going to fail, Pete isn't Tony Stark, Clone conspiracy - everyone comes back, yeah that would be permanent.

    We need a storyline that defines Pete, that sets him on a course that doesn't change every issue. A lot of times in the past, such storylines have come as the result of a death, think Uncle Ben, Captain Stacy, Gwen. Other times, it still involved people close to him - discovering the identity of the Green goblin as norman, eddie Brock becoming Venom and knowing his identity, his marriage to MJ.

    All of these altered Pete's life not for an issue or two but for years, some still affecting him today. That's what we need now, not fake "epic" events with no staying power or consequences.

    One idea- Aunt May dies. Not tragically, not suddenly, not because of Spidey or Ock or anyone else. Because that's what happens in life. People you catre about sometimes die, especially if they're older and have health problems. Imagine how this would affect Pete. Imagine what could be done story-wise with Pete and May both knowing the end is coming, imagine how Pete's friends would rally back to him (or would they?) imagine the toll on Pete for the rest of his life..

    That's what ASM needs, a story like that, not a hard reboot.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey5640 View Post
    One idea- Aunt May dies. Not tragically, not suddenly, not because of Spidey or Ock or anyone else.
    Issue 400 says hi.

  10. #55
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    Fake from the beginning so the writers didn't invest in it as they could have. Pretty much my point.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey5640 View Post
    Fake from the beginning so the writers didn't invest in it as they could have.
    At the time it was never intended to be "fake from the start", it was meant to stick and the baby would have been returned instead of May.

    Because of that, it also happens to be canon to Spider-Girl.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 10-28-2017 at 11:19 AM.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey5640 View Post
    ASM doesn't need a hard reboot. It needs a strong storyline that actually matters and is permanent in it's consequences. That hasn't happened in ASM for a long time.
    It's never happened ever.

    When fans complain that storylines "don't matter" and long for "permanent consequences," I think they don't understand how serialized comics work.

    There's no change that's ever happened that either hasn't or that can't be undone.

    You're talking about a story that never ends involving a character that will never age past a certain point. Every story matters but just not in the way they would for characters who age like real people, grow, experience actual change and eventually die. And this applies to every single superhero character, not just Spidey.

  13. #58
    iMan 42s
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    I've heard a similar argument for awhile so I am genuinely curious how long status quo changes have lasted in Amazing Spider-man. In real time, how long was Otto Spider-man, Parker industries lasting from inception to destruction, usage of new villains, cast changes, love interests, etc.

    I feel like that would be the more appropriate way of finding out if the book had a problem or not since we could compare that to earlier runs and see how much things mattered to a specific run and how much things had been built off of it going forward. Relative permanence is a problem if nothing in a specific run really matters so that may have something to it.
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

  14. #59
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Why can't Spider-man just go back to college?

    He's still a young man (despite what some reads want to think). All you have to do is say "he left school for a while to find himself, or because of complications in his life, or whatever, and now he's back."

  15. #60
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    I've heard a similar argument for awhile so I am genuinely curious how long status quo changes have lasted in Amazing Spider-man. In real time, how long was Otto Spider-man, Parker industries lasting from inception to destruction, usage of new villains, cast changes, love interests, etc.

    I feel like that would be the more appropriate way of finding out if the book had a problem or not since we could compare that to earlier runs and see how much things mattered to a specific run and how much things had been built off of it going forward. Relative permanence is a problem if nothing in a specific run really matters so that may have something to it.
    Superior Spidey was a few months, PI was probably around a year.

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