DCEU Superman Appreciation 2018

[Last Son of Krypton]

Jay Oliva on JL's lame 3rd act...

"Russian family was never in the original script. In fact they made it an abandoned town because of the backlash from MoS. So a Russian family doesn’t make sense when it was supposed to be abandoned from the start."

"Zack meticulously storyboards out every shot in all of his films. It’s all planned out. If he intended for a family to be in there he would have integrated them a lot deeper into the overall character arcs and plot. To me, it felt like it was an exec note after the fact."

"Or it could be that’s Whedon’s idea of addressing an exec note. But I highly doubt it was Zack’s plan all along. When he finishes principle photography he’s pretty much done. There might be a few pickups but if he did the film 100%, those would be minimal."

About BvS' ending...

"I’m sure if there were no backlash the island would have been inhabited. I’m sure there would have been some military/ police response to Doomsday as well as raise the stakes and drama instead of a fight on an empty island no one cares about."

"I’m sure Zack would have tried to mirror Superman’s death from the comics by having him die in the middle of metropolis surrounded by the people he saved. No other CBM director tries to recreate iconic scenes than Zack Snyder."

https://twitter.com/jayoliva1/status...66698825101312

[manofsteel1979]

Jay Oliva on JL's lame 3rd act...

"Russian family was never in the original script. In fact they made it an abandoned town because of the backlash from MoS. So a Russian family doesn’t make sense when it was supposed to be abandoned from the start."

"Zack meticulously storyboards out every shot in all of his films. It’s all planned out. If he intended for a family to be in there he would have integrated them a lot deeper into the overall character arcs and plot. To me, it felt like it was an exec note after the fact."

"Or it could be that’s Whedon’s idea of addressing an exec note. But I highly doubt it was Zack’s plan all along. When he finishes principle photography he’s pretty much done. There might be a few pickups but if he did the film 100%, those would be minimal."

About BvS' ending...

"I’m sure if there were no backlash the island would have been inhabited. I’m sure there would have been some military/ police response to Doomsday as well as raise the stakes and drama instead of a fight on an empty island no one cares about."

"I’m sure Zack would have tried to mirror Superman’s death from the comics by having him die in the middle of metropolis surrounded by the people he saved. No other CBM director tries to recreate iconic scenes than Zack Snyder."

I've long suspected the hysterical over reaction to the end of MOS hampered a lot going forward. Yeah the destruction porn got a bit out of hand and could have been toned down a tad,but so did the " Man of Murder!" stuff that was going around on the internet. It was quite ridiculous.

Over reacting fan boys and fan girls are part of the reasons we can't have nice things.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I've long suspected the hysterical over reaction to the end of MOS hampered a lot going forward. Yeah the destruction porn got a bit out of hand and could have been toned down a tad,but so did the " Man of Murder!" stuff that was going around on the internet. It was quite ridiculous.

Over reacting fan boys and fan girls are part of the reasons we can't have nice things.

I think WB learned the wrong lessons. The criticisms were more about Superman not helping civilians during and after the battle than the final battle being in a populated area.

[manofsteel1979]

I think WB learned the wrong lessons. The criticisms were more about Superman not helping civilians during and after the battle than the final battle being in a populated area.

That was definitely part of it, but there were people yelling that kind of destruction and stakes didnt belong in a Superman film at all, regardless whether Superman saved people or not. I remember getting into arguments with people on this board's previous incarnation where people were insisting that the fights shouldn't have any level of realism and should be more like Superman II. " I don't want to be reminded of 9/11 in a Superman movie! Superman is a fairy tale!" etc.

Warners always go the wrong way with fan reaction. Supernan Returns was called too boring, MOS over does some parts of the action. MOS didn't make a billion, Snyder mentions kryptonite being brought to Wayne Manor as an after credits scene for a future movie, WB decides to make an MOS direct sequel into a Batman movie! BvS gets called too dark, Justice League gets filmed by same director, pretty much finished, then hacked apart and stitched together into a frankenstein mess of a movie by another director.

[Kuwagaton]

I watched Justice League yesterday and thought it was a little better the third time around, and if it would have been even better with the original cut, I find it hard to care that the opportunity was lost due to a man losing his daughter. But whatever, I don't see much how getting lost in the complaints of others is different than getting lost in your own complaints.

WB was right to wager that some people wouldn't think they went too far, they just couldn't figure how many. I'm thankful for the last part of Man of Steel not because I wanted to see a ton of murder and destruction, but because it makes for a powerful sense of loss in a story in the basic mold, where the hero can't lose. I think the emotional appeal and the desired realism of the creators is achieved in the underrated concept of the pyrrhic victory. One man stands against an alien invasion that intends to wipe out all life, and maybe 1500-3000 people are killed. That's sad but also very awesome, because that wasn't even 1% of the Metropolis population if I'm close to right. Guy just found his cape yesterday and that's favorable compared to the destruction found in the first Avengers movie or Dark Knight Rises. Wonder Woman trained extensively under the Amazons and had about 100 years in the world of man, but from what we've seen in the movies I don't think she would have done the job if there wasn't a Kal-el.

But in fairness, of course things wouldn't have escalated the same way without the existence of Kal...

[Last Son of Krypton]

That was definitely part of it, but there were people yelling that kind of destruction and stakes didnt belong in a Superman film at all, regardless whether Superman saved people or not. I remember getting into arguments with people on this board's previous incarnation where people were insisting that the fights shouldn't have any level of realism and should be more like Superman II. " I don't want to be reminded of 9/11 in a Superman movie! Superman is a fairy tale!" etc.

Everyone had different criticisms toward the movie. I wished they gave more attentions to the complains about Clark who doesn't talk much during MoS or the movie being too dark instead of double-down on these things.

Warners always go the wrong way with fan reaction. Supernan Returns was called too boring, MOS over does some parts of the action. MOS didn't make a billion, Snyder mentions kryptonite being brought to Wayne Manor as an after credits scene for a future movie, WB decides to make an MOS direct sequel into a Batman movie! BvS gets called too dark, Justice League gets filmed by same director, pretty much finished, then hacked apart and stitched together into a frankenstein mess of a movie by another director.

... Justice League flopped and WB scrapped the shared universe for standalone movies... and so on...

[Last Son of Krypton]

Henry Cavill doesn't think a Zack Snyder cut of 'Justice League' will 'make any difference' (exclusive): https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/henry-ca...112542828.html

WSJ's article about the Snyder Cut: https://www.wsj.com/articles/holy-di...lop-1532011378

Briefly: the Snyder Cut isn't going to happen.

"Warner Bros. has a huge presentation planned for Comic-Con Saturday to promote upcoming superhero movies including “Aquaman” and “Shazam!” The studio isn’t planning to mention a Snyder cut or to release any alternate versions of “Justice League,” a senior executive confirmed."

[Thomas Crown]

I think Cavill wants to remain in the Superman role so much that he's willing to play along with any PR narrative from the studio. Remember when he said he was glad that the Superman suit in "Man of Steel" had no trunks on the outside? If they bring the trunks back in the next Superman movie, just to match the current comics, I bet he will start to give interviews saying how he's happy that the trunks are back.

[GreatKungLao]

Henry Cavill doesn't think a Zack Snyder cut of 'Justice League' will 'make any difference' (exclusive): https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/henry-ca...112542828.html

WSJ's article about the Snyder Cut: https://www.wsj.com/articles/holy-di...lop-1532011378

Briefly: the Snyder Cut isn't going to happen.

"Warner Bros. has a huge presentation planned for Comic-Con Saturday to promote upcoming superhero movies including “Aquaman” and “Shazam!” The studio isn’t planning to mention a Snyder cut or to release any alternate versions of “Justice League,” a senior executive confirmed."

Welp... It was a fun ride





Until next time...

[stargazer01]

I think Henry is honest wanting a different kind of Superman movie. He knows many were disappointed with the Superman portrayal in the Snyder movies, especially BvS. I can see it in his face. He did not like the results. He knows Superman should overcome the darkness and be brighter and more optimistic. I believe him. I think the only movie he's proud of is MOS. And he should, because that movie got Superman better, IMO.

[RepHope]

Henry Cavill doesn't think a Zack Snyder cut of 'Justice League' will 'make any difference' (exclusive): https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/henry-ca...112542828.html

WSJ's article about the Snyder Cut: https://www.wsj.com/articles/holy-di...lop-1532011378

Briefly: the Snyder Cut isn't going to happen.

"Warner Bros. has a huge presentation planned for Comic-Con Saturday to promote upcoming superhero movies including “Aquaman” and “Shazam!” The studio isn’t planning to mention a Snyder cut or to release any alternate versions of “Justice League,” a senior executive confirmed."

Anyone who thought it was coming was deluding themselves. Cavill's right in saying the "Snyder Cut" wasn't going to somehow redeem Snyder in the eyes of the public. If anything I bet Snyder's JL would've performed worse and gotten a lower RT score than Whedon's.

It's time to move on if you're a Snyder fan. These next movies are not going to have much Snyder in them. WW will be the mold not MoS, BvS, or SS. If Superman gets another movie it's not going to be a literal MoS2. It will be more lighthearted and focused on Supes saving people instead of him asking himself if he should or constantly comparing him to Jesus.

[GreatKungLao]

Anyone who thought it was coming was deluding themselves. Cavill's right in saying the "Snyder Cut" wasn't going to somehow redeem Snyder in the eyes of the public. If anything I bet Snyder's JL would've performed worse and gotten a lower RT score than Whedon's.

It's time to move on if you're a Snyder fan. These next movies are not going to have much Snyder in them. WW will be the mold not MoS, BvS, or SS. If Superman gets another movie it's not going to be a literal MoS2. It will be more lighthearted and focused on Supes saving people instead of him asking himself if he should or constantly comparing him to Jesus.

After spending time on twitter asking yourself if humanity should be saved is a legit subject even for Superman.

IMG_20180720_092617.jpg

Isn't it nice to encourage suicide considering what caused all of that in the first place? Humanity was a mistake.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I think Henry is honest wanting a different kind of Superman movie. He knows many were disappointed with the Superman portrayal in the Snyder movies, especially BvS. I can see it in his face. He did not like the results. He knows Superman should overcome the darkness and be brighter and more optimistic. I believe him. I think the only movie he's proud of is MOS. And he should, because that movie got Superman better, IMO.

I'm sure Henry wasn't happy with how his character was sidelined in BvS. An early interview during the filming of BVS ringed alarm bells while I was reading it. He said something about Batman being a screenwriters' favourite over Superman because they think Batman is a more interesting and complex character to write, but Henry said he thinks that Superman is more interesting but he couldn't do nothing because he's just an actor and not a screenwriter. I wish to find the exact quote.

If anything I bet Snyder's JL would've performed worse and gotten a lower RT score than Whedon's.

Snyder's JL would've probably performed more or less the same as Josstice League but no way it would've a lower RT score. The theatrical cut of JL feels like an amateurish youtube fan-edit, it has bad cgi, improvised music that doesn't fit the movie, horrible pink/red filters, etc... Snyder's JL would've felt like a proper movie with good cgi, music, etc... Heck, even Steppenwolf looked better in a VFX reel with the original Snyder's filters.

[stargazer01]

I'm sure Henry wasn't happy with how his character was sidelined in BvS. An early interview during the filming of BVS ringed alarm bells while I was reading it. He said something about Batman being a screenwriters' favourite over Superman because they think Batman is a more interesting and complex character to write, but Henry said he thinks that Superman is more interesting but he couldn't do nothing because he's just an actor and not a screenwriter. I wish to find the exact quote.



Snyder's JL would've probably performed more or less the same as Josstice League but no way it would've a lower RT score. The theatrical cut of JL feels like an amateurish youtube fan-edit, it has bad cgi, improvised music that doesn't fit the movie, horrible pink/red filters, etc... Snyder's JL would've felt like a proper movie with good cgi, music, etc... Heck, even Steppenwolf looked better in a VFX reel with the original Snyder's filters.

I think Snyder's JL would probably get a similar RT score as BvS. I really think his JL wouldn't be too different to BvS. Snyder just can't do fun or humor well enough. He doesn't seem interested in that. He is ultra serious. Also BvS's cinemascore is a B, while JL's was B+, so general audiences considered JL more enjoyable to watch. Critics too despite JL messy visuals. Most people outside of the Snyder fanboys agree that the characters were more likable and their chemistry stronger in the Whedon cut than in BvS.

It was very telling to me when JL opened much lower than BvS. It meant that general audiences were turned off by BvS and never went back to see the sequel.

And about Henry's thoughts on BvS, I didn't pay attention to the filming of that movie. But despite my gripes with Superman's portrayal, he was still the character everybody was obsessed with. Both Lex and Batman were. And it was Superman's sacrifice and goodness what turned Bruce back into a hero. He admitted he was wrong about Superman and that he failed him. I loved that part very much. I just wished we had seen more of that goodness in Supes that we were told about. That's where Snyder failed IMO. He failed to show Supes' lighter side and how the people who liked him felt about him. It's why I adore the Superman/kids scene in JL; I forgive his cgi mouth because he was very friendly and approachable with those kids. That's what I needed to see most.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I think Snyder's JL would probably get a similar RT score as BvS. I really think his JL wouldn't be too different to BvS. Snyder just can't do fun or humor well enough. He doesn't seem interested in that. He is ultra serious. Also BvS's cinemascore is a B, while JL's was B+, so general audiences considered JL more enjoyable to watch. Critics too despite JL messy visuals. Most people outside of the Snyder fanboys agree that the characters were more likable and their chemistry stronger in the Whedon cut than in BvS.

As we saw from JL's first trailers/teasers, Snyder added humor to the movie. And I found it better than Whedon's "thirsty Lois", "anal-probe" and Flash falling on Diana's boobs. I'm no Snyder fanboy, I hated BvS, but Whedon's JL is another kind of bad movie.

And about Henry's thoughts on BvS, I didn't pay attention to the filming of that movie. But despite my gripes with Superman's portrayal, he was still the character everybody was obsessed with. Both Lex and Batman were. And it was Superman's sacrifice and goodness what turned Bruce back into a hero. He admitted he was wrong about Superman and that he failed him. I loved that part very much. I just wished we had seen more of that goodness in Supes that we were told about. That's where Snyder failed IMO. He failed to show Supes' lighter side and how the people who liked him felt about him. It's why I adore the Superman/kids scene in JL; I forgive his cgi mouth because he was very friendly and approachable with those kids. That's what I needed to see most.

I agree on the Superman/kids scene.
Superman's "inspiring" death in BvS was an afterthought. Snyder originally thought of freezing Supes in space to keep him out of JL, lol. Of course his "sacrifice" didn't end up working as it was more a forced plot point.