DCEU Superman Appreciation 2018

[GreatKungLao]

I really like reading comments to some videos and find something new regarding some scenes. Like this one



In our Russian Zack Snyder community group I saw a comment that pointed out how this sequence perfectly resembles how DCEU Superman is percepted in real world. Some people protect Superman and believe in the senciere goodness of his actions, others afraid of him or just hate him because he "doesn't go by the rules", you know, like pople complain about that "this is not how Superman should work" and such. Then there is a scientist who tries to look at all of this without personal bias (the way how critics should have been reviewing BvS, lol). I swear to God, this movie.

[Lokimaru]

I really like reading comments to some videos and find something new regarding some scenes. Like this one



In our Russian Zack Snyder community group I saw a comment that pointed out how this sequence perfectly resembles how DCEU Superman is percepted in real world. Some people protect Superman and believe in the senciere goodness of his actions, others afraid of him or just hate him because he "doesn't go by the rules", you know, like pople complain about that "this is not how Superman should work" and such. Then there is a scientist who tries to look at all of this without personal bias (the way how critics should have been reviewing BvS, lol). I swear to God, this movie.

This is why I don't like the opening of Justice League. This version of Superman hasn't really talked to people or they wouldn't wonder about him. He'd be a known entity not an unknown one. The Capital was his first time speaking to the people and it ended in disaster, that was the point. Sure it's filmed in a found footage way but Media stations would have paid through the nose for coverage like that like how it was in Earth One. I know people just wanted the big blue boyscout but this version was never going to be that. Reality just doesn't work that way. And this version of Superman was as real as you got. They had Charlie Rose talking about the ethics of Superman people, wake up.

[Ascended]

I wouldn't accept any other director for a Superman movie who is less passionate than Zack Snyder was during creation of Man of Steel. People might argue forever about this movie, but one thing that is certain is that the man behind it loved what he was doing.

I love how Cavill refers to him as "Kal" so much. You only see his closest friends (well, and Zod) call him that.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I love how Cavill refers to him as "Kal" so much. You only see his closest friends (well, and Zod) call him that.

I think it's because the MoS' script refers to his character as Kal except for a couple of scenes at the farm. It was a Goyer's choice.
I remember also that during an interview, Goyer said to the interviewer to not refer to the character just as "Clark" because he's Kal too.

[Osiris-Rex]

I think it's because the MoS' script refers to his character as Kal except for a couple of scenes at the farm. It was a Goyer's choice.
I remember also that during an interview, Goyer said to the interviewer to not refer to the character just as "Clark" because he's Kal too.

I wonder if it is just coincidence that Kal-El and Kara Zor-El both start with Ka, or if that was intentional because they are cousins.

[The_Lurk]

While I'm not really convinced of the big amount of self-doubt written into MoS & BvS Superman portrayal it was, IMO, clear from the beginning that Cavill totally owns that role and was as believable in the doing superstuff scenes as in the sad ones... the many, many sad ones... I digress. Hes an awesome Clark Kent; Kal-El & Superman and with Justice League he doubled down on that one which had its increased effectiveness maybe even because of the learning/developing period the character had with the previous movies. Not doing a MoS2 now would be a crime against Superman Fans; he is the only one I have faith into pulling of a believable matured sure of himself Superman and every doubt should be doused by the previous DCEU movies.

[Ascended]

RE: Clark's self-doubt.

I loathe, to an inhuman degree, a Superman full of self-doubt and navel gazing. Hate it with the passion of a billion burning suns. But in MoS, it's not a problem for me.

In that film, Clark has a lot of doubts. But its almost always about how he'll do a thing, not whether he should or what the right thing is. At a very young age he saves the bus, going against the secret-keeping rules of his parents, even though he didn't seem to have any friends there. It is a completely selfless act. Several times as an adult he blows his cover and has to dump whatever bits of a life he had been able to build, all because of utterly selfless acts. His moral compass doesn't waiver throughout the film. Clark doesn't question himself, he merely isn't always sure how to achieve his goals. He knows where he wants to go and what he wants to be, he just isn't sure how to get there. I can accept that sort of doubt from a young, proto-Superman. Its not even doubt really, its just not having all the answers.

The only exception to that was when Zod demanded Clark turn himself in. And in that case, Clark's doubt is short lived and pretty justified. And it's really the only time he has that kind of self-doubt in MoS. (its also one of my least favorite scenes too, but I suppose even a Superman can stumble once in a very great while).

BvS.....we dont talk about.

[Ascended]

I think it's because the MoS' script refers to his character as Kal except for a couple of scenes at the farm. It was a Goyer's choice.
I remember also that during an interview, Goyer said to the interviewer to not refer to the character just as "Clark" because he's Kal too.

And people say Goyer doesn't get the character.

[Last Son of Krypton]

BvS.....we dont talk about.

BvS never ever happened...

And people say Goyer doesn't get the character.

Goyer is really underestimated. He only needs a little help to execute his ideas. I wanted him to do the MoS sequel he wanted instead of what we got.

David Goyer: The challenge for us moving forward is how to depict Superman in a world like this, in a world where Twitter exists, in a world with social media. To me, the interesting challenge is “Could he solve hunger in the horn of Africa? What would he do with the Arab Spring? What would he do in Syria?”

Partly you could argue “How could he not intervene in something like the situation in Syria?” but the other argument is “Is it a hornet’s nest if her intervenes? Does he have the wherewithal or the knowledge to intervene in something like this?”

To me, that’s the interesting challenge. It’s easier for Batman because he just exists in this little pocket of the world, he’s not violating sovereign airspace every day.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06...-steel-sequel/

David Goyer: Batman Vs. Superman is where you go when you admit to yourself that you’ve exhausted all possibilities. It’s like Frankenstein meets Wolfman or Freddy Vs. Jason. It’s somewhat of an admission that this franchise is on its last gasp.

http://www.slashfilm.com/david-goyer-batman-v-superman/

[Lokimaru]

I honestly think Superman would have to have a degree of sadness to him else he'd be a Sociopath. This is a guy who can hear and see everything. All the bad plus all the good. Think of all the thing he sees that he just can't put into words cause no one else can see them. Think of all the Corpses buried in walls he can see (Like that episode of Smallville). Think of all the things he hears that would freak people the hell out if they knew about them. Yeah Supes would be sad alot.

[Ascended]

I prefer the term pensive myself.

With a dash of melancholy to add weight.

EDIT: But also joy, and grace, quaint happiness, and a serene balance between contentment and unease.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Superman only works for me when there's the right balance between hope, humor, and an underlying sense of sadness born out of the loneliness of being among the last of kind, and his feelings of isolation and being an outsider during his formative years.

Getting each of those elements in the correct balance is a very tricky magic act that few depictions of the character have ever gotten right, at least to my liking.

Snyder was equal parts hope and sadness, but the humor was almost completely missing...until Whedon's course correction.

Singer's Superman got the humor and sadness, but forgot about the hope.

Smallville's Clark wasn't really ever Superman, but Superboy stretched out past the breaking point, but, at its best, the show did sometimes manage to balance those elements well.

Dean Cain's Clark was all humor and hope, with no real sadness aside from that required of silly soap opera.

Likewise, the Post-Crisis Superman of Byrne and Jurgens the Lois & Clark TV show was based upon often lacked any interesting sadness beyond contrived soap opera because he wasn't ever an outsider growing up, but was rather a popular football star, and rejected his alien heritage almost as soon as he learned about it.

Reeve's Superman balanced hope, humor and sadness just fine, but completely undercut them by resorting to cheap loopholes like turning back time and amnesia kisses that robbed the drama of any real consequences.

Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, and, at their best, Mark Waid and Greg Pak managed to get those three key elements right in my view.

Hopefully, the DCEU Superman will continue now that they've finally settled on a version of the character that feels right to me, and has an actor that is passionate about the role.

[GreatKungLao]

"If Superman was here right now, what would you say to him?"
"How he decides which lives count and which ones do not?"

After seeing that on news Clark goes to Gotham as a reporter to look for this woman. Maybe he wanted to talk to her and understand her perspective as Superman while investigating as Clark Kent? That was a nice touch, just as him using a boat to reach Gotham instead of his abilities, shows that he does live among us and becomes Superman when it is needed. Upon reaching Gotham he doesn't find the woman, but he discovers about Batman who acts as self proclaimed justice. Clark tries to deal with this issue like human, like a reporter, he investigates and stumbles upon this woman



We see that he tried to deal with this legally as we might have tried, but some issues need a different take, because sometimes (who am I kidding? most of the time) system works against normal people, because system is controlled with money and if you have someone on top who can put the strings with his influence, you will most likely see system being broken and abused against those that it was meant to protect. Which is why instead of going against system with a pen and paper, he goes against it with a fist and confronts Batman, but that's another story. I was talking about a system that was abused by Lex Luthor in this situation, a man with very dangerous ambitions and with a lot of influence, who pulled the strings to get father of that woman's child killed in prison, which results in Clark thinking that it was Batman's way of justice, to brand people for death, yet he still tries to make a change as a reporter, but goes as Superman when situation makes it clear that this fight can't be won in a good boyscout way, because real world isn't that naive, it's indifferent.



Well then, it world doesn't care about what Clark Kent does, how about they care about what Superman does? Clark turns on the news and sees the discussion about him, he hears different points of views, he hears about how he should act according to a system, because everything on Earth is political, he hears about how his existence makes humans percept themselves differently and question their sense of priority in a world that has Superman, he hears about how some consider him just as a good guy who is trying to do the right thing and doesn't consider himself as some deity. I love that news feed, because it shows Superman saving people all around the world, would it be a Mexico or Russia, he goes and does what he things is right, not what politics considers right and this montage ends on beautiful note

"Must there be a Superman?"
"There is"

Then we see Clark calling his mom for spiritual reassurance. He might be Superman, but he is still a person with his worries who needs support from close people when he feels frustrated. What I like about that scene is ending of their conversation

"Just wish it was more simple".
"My baby boy, nothing was ever simple".

I mean, we have Superman who helps people all around the Earth, yet he sees that for some reason they still question his actions and intentions. What can be possibly so hard as accepting a person with great power who sincerely wants to be good to everyone? How many times do I have to prove that I'm your ally? Isn't Jor-El said that S means that potential of every person is to be a force for good? Why looking at me and seeing how I don't abuse my powers for selfish reasons, but instead use it to help, doesn't inspire people to act the same? Why there is still injustice? Why poor people still suffer? Why system sucks? BvS has Superman that asks these questions himself.

Now lets go back when I was talking about the system and how people have history with individuals who once came to power used it for horrible things, simply because they could and because whatever system existed at the moment, that individual could ignore it because he had power. So does Superman, he has all the powers to ignore everything and everyone, but he doesn't. Instead he cares about people, who cares about what they think, he listens and he tries to connect. Look for my example when he went to that African woman who wanted to ask Superman how he decides who lives and who doesn't. Maybe he could have explained that he can't be everywhere at once and with his powers he can't save everything alone, that the world must unite and follow Superman to join him in the sun in order to accomplish wonders.

In BvS we see Superman who keeps doing his best despite world being afraid of individuals in power. We see Superman who saves people all around the world despite some idiots consider it "politically incorrect".

We also see Superman whose self confidence might be broken exactly because of all injustices, questioning of his actions and world not changing much no matter how much he tries.

"Superman was never real. Just a dream of a farmer from Kansas"
"That farmer's dream is all some people have. It all that gives them hope"

In this conversation we see Lois explaining Superman that he matters in smaller ways, that there are some people who consider his existence as the only hope for future that this world has, because they finally get a man with power who doesn't abuse it and has a kind and caring heart. He might not be chaning world drastically and globally right now, but he already matters for people who waited for someone like him to step in and lead the way into Tomorrow.

Same goes for his conversation with Jonathan on that mountain where his father exaplined him that not all good actions have same good outcomes using his farm story as an example. But that is absolutely not the reason to stop trying, to stop doing good. Just be kind to yourself and find that reason to keep pushing forward and doing the right thing. World is big and there is good worth fighting for.

This is why I love BvS so much. Not as much as Man of Steel, but Batman v Superman dared to put Clark at his worst in the meaning of self confidence and righteousness of his actions where he even started questioning importance and any need for Superman to exist. Yet he came back after all of that, despite the broken system that is trying to work against world's heroes, despite people treating him politically, because it doesn't matter. What matters is "that farmer's dream is all some people have", which translated to our world means "Superman is all that some people have" and from what I have heard, Superman as a character did changed a lot of people's lives with his stories. This section of forum and our community exist because of him. Super hero genre might have not even existed without Action Comics #1 making a debut in 1938. Same goes for DCEU where his existence might have been questionable for some people, but what matters is how much good he actually does and how many people consider him important. Take him out of the picture and that Mexican girl would have burned in that building, that ship and it's crew would die of starving or cold and those people would have dies cause of flood. As Lois said in Lois & Clark "It doesn't matter what Superman can't do. What matters is what he can do".

"Must there be a Superman?"
"There is"

[AquaLantern]

BvS.....we dont talk about.

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t change that it happened and everyone shares your viewpoint.

[manofsteel1979]

I keep sounding like a looping record, but BvS really feels like there is a missing chapter between MOS and BvS that Sets up what gets payed off in BvS. I certainly wish we got a bonafide MOS2 prior to BvS where we got to know Cavill's Supes, his relationship to the world, set up Luthor a bit more thoroughly etc. For the arc of BvS to work effectively the audience needed to connect to Superman a little more. They were somewhat effective in MOS, but we really needed more time with him and the world around him. If you watch BvS multiple times you eventually get that the world en masse didn't hate and dispise him, but upon first watch one can be forgiven for missing that.

I still think BvS ultimate cut is a criminally underrated movie and wrongly derided. I still rank it my third favorite Superman movie (after The Donner film and MOS that is.)