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  1. #256
    Master Hero Vladimir
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    "thank you, Lois"
    "For what?"
    ''for believing in me."
    "It didn't make much difference in the end."
    "It did to me."

    This scene alone makes this Superman and Lois relationship very special and unique. It's a more mature interaction. Amy Lois needs to be in a sequel. She's essential to this Superman story. I want to see bit more romance and lighthearted stuff. They need to get married next. He was going to propose in BvS.


    Attachment 68130
    Yes! Henry and Amy have great chemistry together and the scripts in the released movies did their relationship justice, at least in my opinion. That's why I don't want the roles to be recast. Hopefully, the next Superman movie will advance their relationship. Being the alpha relationship in comic books, Clark and Lois deserve the opportunity to break new ground in the cinematic medium (marriage, family, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    Most likely not, but it's nice to see Henry defending Man of Steel after all this time. He gets it.

    Hopefully Lois won't get removed, otherwise it will be just as trash as Thor Ragnarok throwing away Jane Foster with a silly/stupid remark. It just moves away from enjoying it as a part of a single continuity and trilogy. Dismissing characters in such a way is idiotic.
    Of course Henry should defend Man of Steel. It's his movie. He should be proud of what he has accomplished. He shouldn't let the hating crowd deter him. Henry's real life charisma is one of the reasons I want a new Superman movie already.

  2. #257
    Fantastic Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    ^Agree completely, HeroVladimir. It's the next logical step for their relationship. I don't get this 'they have no chemistry' thing. If anything, the movies, especially BvS, have been so grim that they haven't provided the opportunity to Clark and Lois to have more romance and lighter moments. JL wasn't a Superman movie, it was a story for Bruce to get the League together. Lois' role was so small, tho significant. A real Superman sequel should give them all the opportunity to further develop this love story.

    Also, the last thing I want for a sequel is to see another superhero stealing the focus from Superman. Especially another Kryptonian. Superman deserves the complete spotlight this time! He already shared the screen time enough in BvS and he was barely there in JL. This should be his time to show why he is Earth's greatest hero.

  3. #258
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    I don't want another hero in a Superman sequel. Let Clark have the spotlight in the sun by himself, get that right first.

    I do think Henry and Amy have wonderful chemistry, L&C's story would have been amazing to see it developed properly, professionally as well as romantically had MoS not been hijacked by an ill conceived idea.

  4. #259
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Have you actually played Injustice?

    And there are other characters in the DCU so by your logic we should forget about Superman entirely.
    You're deluding yourself if you think Knightmare wasn't one big love letter to the garbage characterization of Injustice Superman. Plenty of people were sure Snyder was giving us Injustice down the line because of how similar that part was to the games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I mean, Snyder's Superman has yet to spin the Earth on its axis to bring Lois back and was doing hero work before he even met her. The fact they removed the two person love triangle easily makes this one of the least toxic depictions of their relationship.
    Donner's Superman didn't swear allegiance to Darkseid and rip Batman's heart out because his waifu died.

    But I'm tired of arguing about this. I like Cavill. I think he could be great now that he doesn't have to stand around with a glum look, a scowl, or a stoic look on his face. I hope the next director makes HIM the focus, not his relationship with Lois. Let Cavill be the main event and show off his charm.
    Last edited by RepHope; 07-11-2018 at 12:59 PM.

  5. #260
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    ^Agree completely, HeroVladimir. It's the next logical step for their relationship. I don't get this 'they have no chemistry' thing. If anything, the movies, especially BvS, have been so grim that they haven't provided the opportunity to Clark and Lois to have more romance and lighter moments. JL wasn't a Superman movie, it was a story for Bruce to get the League together. Lois' role was so small, tho significant. A real Superman sequel should give them all the opportunity to further develop this love story.

    Also, the last thing I want for a sequel is to see another superhero stealing the focus from Superman. Especially another Kryptonian. Superman deserves the complete spotlight this time! He already shared the screen time enough in BvS and he was barely there in JL. This should be his time to show why he is Earth's greatest hero.
    Well usually when someone complains about Amy and Henry lacking chemistry its usually code for.." movie Superman should be with someone more wonderful"... But I digress.

    I agree about not having other Superheroes appear in any MOS sequel, not even Supergirl. The focus needs to be firmly on Superman this time.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by RepHope View Post
    You're deluding yourself if you think Knightmare wasn't one big love letter to the garbage characterization of Injustice Superman. Plenty of people were sure Snyder was giving us Injustice down the line because of how similar that part was to the games.



    Donner's Superman didn't swear allegiance to Darkseid and rip Batman's heart out because his waifu died.

    But I'm tired of arguing about this. I like Cavill. I think he could be great now that he doesn't have to stand around with a glum look, a scowl, or a stoic look on his face. I hope the next director makes HIM the focus, not his relationship with Lois. Let Cavill be the main event and show off his charm.
    So you ignored the little detail about how this a) was Superman being kind controlled something that has happened before and b) was going to be eventually undone?

    Donner's Superman also gave up his powers to have sex with Lois and the only reason that decision didn't end up screwing the world over is because the writers refused to let him suffer any consequences for his dickish actions. if he did swear alliegance to Darkseid the writers would just rewind time to it never happening because that's the type of ck sequence-free nonsense to be expected fro those films.

    And if you're tired of having this argument, what are you doing in an appreciation thread for DCEU Superman?

  7. #262
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Well usually when someone complains about Amy and Henry lacking chemistry its usually code for.." movie Superman should be with someone more wonderful"... But I digress.

    I agree about not having other Superheroes appear in any MOS sequel, not even Supergirl. The focus needs to be firmly on Superman this time.
    That's not the case for me. My problem is that I feel like Cavill is underbaked, and hasn't really gotten a chance to shine. If anything I would like less focus on romance and more just on Supes.

  8. #263
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    So you ignored the little detail about how this a) was Superman being kind controlled something that has happened before
    And that makes it good how? If anything it's making me even more unhappy because now it's becoming a trend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    b) was going to be eventually undone?
    There's a reason they didn't adapt Tony Stark locking up people in the Negative Zone, cloning Thor, or generally being a fascist for the MCU Civil War. That stuff damages the character in the long-term something neither you nor Snyder seem to comprehend. Supes being a fascist dictator slaughtering people was not going to endear the already controversial Cavill Supes to the general audience. All Snyder was doing was solidifying "Murderman" as "not muh Superman". The best thing they can do now is ignore that entire stupid plot point which thankfully they seem to be doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    And if you're tired of having this argument, what are you doing in an appreciation thread for DCEU Superman?
    Cavill's a cool dude and I want to see him succeed. If anything Snyder was a roadblock for him. I look forward to hopefully seeing him in a critically and commercially successful Superman movie. MoS was a good if flawed origin film that BvS utterly failed to live up to.
    Last edited by RepHope; 07-11-2018 at 01:53 PM.

  9. #264
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I love both the movie Superman and Lois Lane a ton, but simultaneously, I do think that a little too much weight got put on their romance, if not their relationship. The hinting that Superman could go rogue because Lois died in the Knightmare timeline, for example - I hate that. That said, I think both Clark and Lois are straight up phenomenal and I just want more of them. C'mon, WB! Give us more!

    Quote Originally Posted by RepHope View Post
    Cavill's a cool dude and I want to see him succeed. If anything Snyder was a roadblock for him. I look forward to hopefully seeing him in a critically and commercially successful Superman movie. MoS was a good if flawed origin film that BvS utterly failed to live up to.
    It's a weird experience to hate something for what it is but simultaneously love it for how it could be. That's my experience with Superman comics most of the time, and I don't really enjoy it, but when that happens all you can really do is sit and hope the next iteration comes is more in line with what you like and that it comes quickly.

    I'm lucky in a lot of ways - to me, the way Snyder's Superman cares about marginalized groups totally outweighs the fact that nine times out of ten, I dislike the kind of plot that Batman v. Superman is. I understand where you don't agree though - as a movie it was totally uninterested in being a crowd-pleaser, and it needed to be one with all its hype and budget.

    Tell me, did you like Justice League? Personally, I thought it was a really good first step toward soft-rebooting the film Superman without throwing out what came before, and I want to see more like it, but with, you know, a better version of all those things JL didn't quite succeed at for various reasons, like some of the CG visuals.
    Last edited by Adekis; 07-11-2018 at 02:08 PM.
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  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by RepHope View Post
    And that makes it good how? If anything it's making me even more unhappy because now it's becoming a trend.


    There's a reason they didn't adapt Tony Stark locking up people in the Negative Zone, cloning Thor, or generally being a fascist for the MCU Civil War. That stuff damages the character in the long-term something neither you nor Snyder seem to comprehend. Supes being a fascist dictator slaughtering people was not going to endear the already controversial Cavill Supes to the general audience. All Snyder was doing was solidifying "Murderman" as "not muh Superman". The best thing they can do now is ignore that entire stupid plot point which thankfully they seem to be doing.


    Cavill's a cool dude and I want to see him succeed. If anything Snyder was a roadblock for him. I look forward to hopefully seeing him in a critically and commercially successful Superman movie. MoS was a good if flawed origin film that BvS utterly failed to live up to.
    If showing a superhero as being a victim of mind control is a bad thing, then I guess Marvel screwed up with Bucky as the Winter Soldier. Or all the other cases they had their heroes made into victims of mind control like in the first two Avengers films. The only people who would have had the "Murderman"solidified for them are the same idiots who don't seem to know what the word murder actually means.

    Injustice shows a Superman who deliberately chose to be evil and was beyond any redemption. This is far and away from what Snyder was going to do. And guess what? Injustice is still marketed to mainstream audiences. It being a trope you dislike does not mean it damages a character.

    Oh and where was it stated that Superman would kill Batman in Snyder's version again?
    Last edited by Agent Z; 07-11-2018 at 02:06 PM.

  11. #266
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The only people who would have had the "Murderman"solidified for them are the same idiots who don't seem to know what the word murder actually means.
    This is true. I listened to Mark Waid say Man of Steel had "a Superman who murders" at C2E2 a few years ago and was utterly struck by how obviously he didn't understand what murder is, and that it doesn't apply to the situation with Zod, a clear-cut case of defense of others.

    Oh and where was it stated that Superman would kill Batman in Snyder's version again?
    While I quite agree with the basic premise of "Superman was not going to kill Batman," since he never hits Batman as hard as he can while at full strength, I would argue that Clark thought he was going to kill Batman, given the despair of the "no one stays good in this world" line. If he thought he'd do it, that's enough for a good portion of the audience to think he'd do it, and not without cause.

    Admittedly, "Murderman" really ought to refer to Bruce Wayne, who conspires to murder Superman throughout the whole movie.

    Injustice shows a Superman who deliberately chose to be evil and was beyond any redemption. This is far and away from what Snyder was going to do. And guess what? Injustice is still marketed to mainstream audiences. It being a trope you dislike does not mean it damages a character.
    I absolutely think that Injustice damages Superman as a concept and as a brand. Just look at BvS, a movie I otherwise quite like for its vision of a Superman who cares intensely for marginalized groups, which doesn't ever really question the premise that if Lois died, Superman would turn evil. I call that damage.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    This is true. I listened to Mark Waid say Man of Steel had "a Superman who murders" at C2E2 a few years ago and was utterly struck by how obviously he didn't understand what murder is, and that it doesn't apply to the situation with Zod, a clear-cut case of defense of others.



    While I quite agree with the basic premise of "Superman was not going to kill Batman," since he never hits Batman as hard as he can while at full strength, I would argue that Clark thought he was going to kill Batman, given the despair of the "no one stays good in this world" line. If he thought he'd do it, that's enough for a good portion of the audience to think he'd do it, and not without cause.

    Admittedly, "Murderman" really ought to refer to Bruce Wayne, who conspires to murder Superman throughout the whole movie.

    I absolutely think that Injustice damages Superman as a concept and as a brand. Just look at BvS, a movie I otherwise quite like for its vision of a Superman who cares intensely for marginalized groups, which doesn't ever really question the premise that if Lois died, Superman would turn evil. I call that damage.
    I was talking more about the trope of Superman being mind controlled. Should have made that clear.

  13. #268
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    I love both the movie Superman and Lois Lane a ton, but simultaneously, I do think that a little too much weight got put on their romance, if not their relationship. The hinting that Superman could go rogue because Lois died in the Knightmare timeline, for example - I hate that. That said, I think both Clark and Lois are straight up phenomenal and I just want more of them. C'mon, WB! Give us more!



    It's a weird experience to hate something for what it is but simultaneously love it for how it could be. That's my experience with Superman comics most of the time, and I don't really enjoy it, but when that happens all you can really do is sit and hope the next iteration comes is more in line with what you like and that it comes quickly.

    I'm lucky in a lot of ways - to me, the way Snyder's Superman cares about marginalized groups totally outweighs the fact that nine times out of ten, I dislike the kind of plot that Batman v. Superman is. I understand where you don't agree though - as a movie it was totally uninterested in being a crowd-pleaser, and it needed to be one with all its hype and budget.

    Tell me, did you like Justice League? Personally, I thought it was a really good first step toward soft-rebooting the film Superman without throwing out what came before, and I want to see more like it, but with, you know, a better version of all those things JL didn't quite succeed at for various reasons, like some of the CG visuals.
    JL was screwed by having to establish Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman. I thought it was like a Bayformers movie: utterly shallow but somewhat entertaining. I still think whatever Snyder was making would have been much worse though. I get what Whedon was trying to do with the opening interview, humanize Supes, show that he was an approachable guy instead of a self-absorbed depressed god that Snyder characterized. But the awful CGI just ruined the effort.

    But like you said it basically soft-rebooted Supes so whoever come next has a clean slate to do what they want. I just hope someone will come along to make use of it.

  14. #269
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If showing a superhero as being a victim of mind control is a bad thing, then I guess Marvel screwed up with Bucky as the Winter Soldier. Or all the other cases they had their heroes made into victims of mind control like in the first two Avengers films. The only people who would have had the "Murderman"solidified for them are the same idiots who don't seem to know what the word murder actually means.

    Injustice shows a Superman who deliberately chose to be evil and was beyond any redemption. This is far and away from what Snyder was going to do. And guess what? Injustice is still marketed to mainstream audiences. It being a trope you dislike does not mean it damages a character.

    Oh and where was it stated that Superman would kill Batman in Snyder's version again?
    I was talking about the Knightmare where he shoved his hand through Bruce's chest. I don't believe he intended to kill Bats during the real-world fight.

    Yes Bucky was mind-controlled but it was made clear to us that Bucky was mind-controlled. It was NOT made clear with the Knightmare that Superman was. He looked utterly normal, and Snyder was clearly aping Injustice with the soldiers and the way Supes killed Bats. Injustice HAS damaged the character, people now believe Lois is an easy "kill to make Supes evil" button. Snyder did nothing to contest that opinion especially with how closely he tied Lois to Clark with the "you are my world" bull.
    Last edited by RepHope; 07-11-2018 at 02:44 PM.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Well usually when someone complains about Amy and Henry lacking chemistry its usually code for.." movie Superman should be with someone more wonderful"... But I digress.
    Well done, you've pointed out my bias and thus it makes my argument irrelevant as anyone who enjoys SM/WW can't have a opinion.
    Seriously though everyone has noticed the severe lack of chemistry. One bath sex scene does not make sense of a engagement that came out of nowhere. But I'd take anyone over an injustice inspired romance, even Lori Lemaris.

    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I agree about not having other Superheroes appear in any MOS sequel, not even Supergirl. The focus needs to be firmly on Superman this time.
    Batman wasn't the only one who stole screen time from superman in BVS, and I'm not talking about Wonder woman.

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