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  1. #1

    Default Phoenix Resurrecton Speculation/Theories

    With Phoenix Resurrection still two months away and plenty of discussions about it popping up in multiple threads, I think it's worth starting a new thread to streamline the process. A lot of anxious X-men fans are excited about this event, myself included. We've been waiting a long time for adult Jean Grey to return. The wait is almost over. We've had only a few clues here and there as to how the story will unfold, but it has already been heavily implied that Jean will play a major part in the X-men moving forward. It's just a matter of how she'll get there.

    To start things off, I want to focus on one particular element that was teased in the recent January 2018 solicits. In it, there was this little tidbit:

    Meanwhile, a young woman named Jean is starting to go insane in her peaceful, suburban life. Nightmares and daydreams are spilling over into the world and revealing cracks in her reality. Jean’s life and everything in it may just be a facade, but made by who? And why?
    It has many implications. Does this mean that adult Jean Grey has been alive for a while now and living in seclusion with no memory of who she is? If so, when did it happen? Was it after she died in Planet X? Was it after Avengers vs. X-men? Was it after Secret Wars?

    It also implies that this mind-wiped Jean is living some sort of fantasy life, sort of like what we saw in the Pleasant Hill arc with the Avengers. She might have a family. She might even have kids. She might have a whole host of friends who don't know who she is. It wouldn't be the first time she's been deceived into a false life. Mastermind did that to her way back in the original Phoenix Saga. It still raises the question as to who is behind it and what this will mean for Jean moving forward.

    It could be that Mastermind is back and he warped Jean's mind into thinking they have a life together and the Phoenix is there to break it.

    It could be that someone conjured an ideal life for Jean where she's married to someone like Scott, Logan (whose return might be tied to the event), or even Mastermind himself if he or someone like him is involved. We've seen that teased before in other stories, only to have it shattered.

    It could be that Jean isn't married to anyone, but has a peaceful, happy life on her own in a community where she's loved, respected, and doesn't have to be a hero.

    Whatever the case, the Phoenix Force is sure to shatter it in a very painful way. I remember at the NYCC X-men panel that I sat in on that Matthew Rosenberg said that there would be tears in reading Phoenix Resurrection. There's almost always an element of tragedy associated with the Phoenix. Perhaps the big tragedy here is that she'll have to sacrifice whatever life, family, or friends she had in that ideal fantasy to return to the real world. That would be perfectly in line with Jean Grey's many other sacrifices in the past.

    Again, these are all speculations. We won't know for sure until the issue comes out or if more teasers are released. But until then, let's open the floor up to all sorts of crazy speculations. I have my theories. I doubt any of them are right, but I'm sure everyone has others as well.
    Last edited by MarvelMaster616; 10-27-2017 at 08:57 AM.
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  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Thanks, MarvelMaster, for making this thread!

    I don't know who might have "Bewitched" this Jean who is in the suburbs, but I Hope it is not Wanda with her "no more mutants" or " no more Phoenix".

    Mesmero, Mastermind and even Emma Frost would be better causes and could tie into past interactions. Plus, they all have psychic powers and could be trying to get even, prove how tough they are, that they can take on Jean (which they can't, lol), etc. I need me a good psychic battle!
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 10-27-2017 at 09:48 AM.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Thanks, MarvelMaster, for making this thread!

    I don't know who might have "Bewitched" this Jean who is in the suburbs, but I Hope it is not Wanda with her "no more mutants" or " no more Phoenix".

    Mesmero, Mastermind and even Emma Frost would be better causes and could tie into past interactions. Plus, they all have psychic powers and could be trying to get even, prove how tough they are, that they can take on Jean (which they can't, lol), etc. I need me a good psychic battle!
    You're very welcome.

    And I don't think it's Wanda who created this illusion for Jean, if that's what actually happens. I don't think Marvel will try to tap that well again. Besides, they seem more inclined to keep Wanda on the Avengers side of the Marvel universe. I don't think they'll muddle that by getting her involved in the X-books.

    While Mastermind would be the most likely candidate, I can easily see someone like Emma doing the same. But that depends on how the Psych Wars events play out. It could be someone else entirely, someone with reality-warping abilities. It could be a ploy by someone in the Shi'ar, who dealt with the Phoenix in The Mighty Thor. It could be part of a ruse pulled by the fallen Celestial we saw in Marvel Legacy #1. It's not clear how much a factor that will be, but the potential is there. We'll just need to wait for more teasers, I suppose.
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  4. #4
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    My theory is that ghost Jean is just the subconcious of adult Jean who has been living without all her memories trying to gather all her pieces and be whole again.

  5. #5
    Fantastic Member Weather's Avatar
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    The great thing about this book is that we won't have to wait long between issues. And of course, we will have the opportunity to see various X-men working side by side, without the hands of Guggenheim near it.

  6. #6
    Jubilant Member Dementia5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weather View Post
    various X-men working side by side, without the hands of Guggenheim near it.
    This alone makes me want to spend money on it.
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    Yer bonkers and you need a sandwich.

  7. #7
    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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    The setup is similar to Wanda post-House of M. After she turned the world on its head, she banished herself to a remote village, alive but completely unaware of her past.

    But where Wanda's exile was self-imposed, the implications here is someone actively manipulated Jean postmortem. And that in itself is an interesting question. Jean DID die during Planet X. People saw it and there was a body that was buried. So when was she resurrected?

    Many will point how the Phoenix drug her out of the grave during Endsong, but I'm fairly certain Marvel considers that whole series completely non-canon and it was mentioned during the much later Sisterhood arc of Uncanny that they moved Jean's body so Madelyne Pryor couldn't get to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    My theory is that ghost Jean is just the subconcious of adult Jean who has been living without all her memories trying to gather all her pieces and be whole again.
    I can see this being not too far off.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    My theory is that ghost Jean is just the subconcious of adult Jean who has been living without all her memories trying to gather all her pieces and be whole again.
    I think that's possible, but not very probable. I'm not convinced that ghost is really the adult Jean that's about to return. If the solicits are any indication, Jean will have been physically resurrected at some point already. This ghost might be some sort of strange manifestation of O5 Jean's vulnerable mind or some manipulation by someone like Cassandra Nova, which I think is more probable. But however adult Jean returns, she does seem intent on regaining her missing pieces. That was a theme of both Planet X and Endsong.

    Quote Originally Posted by ariwl1 View Post
    The setup is similar to Wanda post-House of M. After she turned the world on its head, she banished herself to a remote village, alive but completely unaware of her past.

    But where Wanda's exile was self-imposed, the implications here is someone actively manipulated Jean postmortem. And that in itself is an interesting question. Jean DID die during Planet X. People saw it and there was a body that was buried. So when was she resurrected?

    Many will point how the Phoenix drug her out of the grave during Endsong, but I'm fairly certain Marvel considers that whole series completely non-canon and it was mentioned during the much later Sisterhood arc of Uncanny that they moved Jean's body so Madelyne Pryor couldn't get to it.

    I can see this being not too far off.
    I think you're right. That's a good comparison too between Wanda and Jean. I think it's highly likely that Jean did, in fact, die at the end of Planet X. It wasn't just Endsong when her body was shown. It came up in Uncanny X-men during Fraction's run as well. However this resurrected Jean came to be, I think it happened at some point after Avengers vs. X-men. That was the last time the Phoenix underwent a real upheaval. I think her resurrection might have been a response to the spell that Wanda and Hope cast.

    With respect to Endsong's continuity, Marvel has been somewhat loose with this place in the canon. They ignore it most of the time, but they could just as easily accept it in this event. I think Rosenberg will make an effort to incorporate as much as he can, given the scope and scale of this story.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    With Phoenix Resurrection still two months away and plenty of discussions about it popping up in multiple threads, I think it's worth starting a new thread to streamline the process. A lot of anxious X-men fans are excited about this event, myself included. We've been waiting a long time for adult Jean Grey to return. The wait is almost over. We've had only a few clues here and there as to how the story will unfold, but it has already been heavily implied that Jean will play a major part in the X-men moving forward. It's just a matter of how she'll get there.

    To start things off, I want to focus on one particular element that was teased in the recent January 2018 solicits. In it, there was this little tidbit:



    It has many implications. Does this mean that adult Jean Grey has been alive for a while now and living in seclusion with no memory of who she is? If so, when did it happen? Was it after she died in Planet X? Was it after Avengers vs. X-men? Was it after Secret Wars?

    It also implies that this mind-wiped Jean is living some sort of fantasy life, sort of like what we saw in the Pleasant Hill arc with the Avengers. She might have a family. She might even have kids. She might have a whole host of friends who don't know who she is. It wouldn't be the first time she's been deceived into a false life. Mastermind did that to her way back in the original Phoenix Saga. It still raises the question as to who is behind it and what this will mean for Jean moving forward.

    It could be that Mastermind is back and he warped Jean's mind into thinking they have a life together and the Phoenix is there to break it.

    It could be that someone conjured an ideal life for Jean where she's married to someone like Scott, Logan (whose return might be tied to the event), or even Mastermind himself if he or someone like him is involved. We've seen that teased before in other stories, only to have it shattered.

    It could be that Jean isn't married to anyone, but has a peaceful, happy life on her own in a community where she's loved, respected, and doesn't have to be a hero.

    Whatever the case, the Phoenix Force is sure to shatter it in a very painful way. I remember at the NYCC X-men panel that I sat in on that Matthew Rosenberg said that there would be tears in reading Phoenix Resurrection. There's almost always an element of tragedy associated with the Phoenix. Perhaps the big tragedy here is that she'll have to sacrifice whatever life, family, or friends she had in that ideal fantasy to return to the real world. That would be perfectly in line with Jean Grey's many other sacrifices in the past.

    Again, these are all speculations. We won't know for sure until the issue comes out or if more teasers are released. But until then, let's open the floor up to all sorts of crazy speculations. I have my theories. I doubt any of them are right, but I'm sure everyone has others as well.
    I think the most obvious thing is Jean Grey is coming back because of what we saw in Marvel Legacy and the team of Caveman Avengers. The Phoenix is coming back because that threat they buried a million years ago is returning or had woken up.
    This also makes me think resurrected Jean and resurrected Wolverine (who has an infinity stone) will be Avengers sooner than later, and if they are in the same team they will probably date too.

  10. #10
    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurkerforyears View Post
    I think the most obvious thing is Jean Grey is coming back because of what we saw in Marvel Legacy and the team of Caveman Avengers. The Phoenix is coming back because that threat they buried a million years ago is returning or had woken up.
    This also makes me think resurrected Jean and resurrected Wolverine (who has an infinity stone) will be Avengers sooner than later, and if they are in the same team they will probably date too.
    The buried Celestial will connect with the Phoenix without a doubt, but it does beg the question of why the Phoenix might resurrect the original Jean Grey (if that is indeed what it's doing) when it's been made clear, rather painfully in most cases, that numerous other hosts can fill the role of Phoenix. Several former and potential hosts are running around Earth right now including a pint-size Jean Grey.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ariwl1 View Post
    The buried Celestial will connect with the Phoenix without a doubt, but it does beg the question of why the Phoenix might resurrect the original Jean Grey (if that is indeed what it's doing) when it's been made clear, rather painfully in most cases, that numerous other hosts can fill the role of Phoenix. Several former and potential hosts are running around Earth right now including a pint-size Jean Grey.
    Probably because adult Jean goes beyond just a mere host. She understands her role in the universe with the phoenix power more than anyone else.

    And let's be honest, Jean's the only one that matters. All these other wannabes are riding off her coattails.

  12. #12
    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    Probably because adult Jean goes beyond just a mere host. She understands her role in the universe with the phoenix power more than anyone else.

    And let's be honest, Jean's the only one that matters. All these other wannabes are riding off her coattails.
    Oh I'm looking more for the in-universe way in how they'll explain it. The universe has been in dire straights countless times since she left, so it'll be interesting to see how they justify bringing her back now unless...the Phoenix isn't the one who resurrects her.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post

    To start things off, I want to focus on one particular element that was teased in the recent January 2018 solicits. In it, there was this little tidbit:



    It has many implications. Does this mean that adult Jean Grey has been alive for a while now and living in seclusion with no memory of who she is? If so, when did it happen? Was it after she died in Planet X? Was it after Avengers vs. X-men? Was it after Secret Wars?

    It also implies that this mind-wiped Jean is living some sort of fantasy life, sort of like what we saw in the Pleasant Hill arc with the Avengers. She might have a family. She might even have kids. She might have a whole host of friends who don't know who she is. It wouldn't be the first time she's been deceived into a false life. Mastermind did that to her way back in the original Phoenix Saga. It still raises the question as to who is behind it and what this will mean for Jean moving forward.

    It could be that Mastermind is back and he warped Jean's mind into thinking they have a life together and the Phoenix is there to break it.



    Again, these are all speculations. We won't know for sure until the issue comes out or if more teasers are released. But until then, let's open the floor up to all sorts of crazy speculations. I have my theories. I doubt any of them are right, but I'm sure everyone has others as well.

    Could not it be the soul or a part of Jean's soul inside the White Hot Room waiting for the Fragments of the Phoenix to be reunited or be resurrected?

    Maybe it's just their own version of the afterlife and his resurrection is causing the destruction of it.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by lurkerforyears View Post
    I think the most obvious thing is Jean Grey is coming back because of what we saw in Marvel Legacy and the team of Caveman Avengers. The Phoenix is coming back because that threat they buried a million years ago is returning or had woken up.
    This also makes me think resurrected Jean and resurrected Wolverine (who has an infinity stone) will be Avengers sooner than later, and if they are in the same team they will probably date too.
    Based on what Mark Paniccia has said, Jean isn't jumping ship to the Avengers. Most of the teasers he's offered implies that Jean will have a role in the X-books moving forward. She may team up with the Avengers more. That seems to be a trend for both teams these days. But I wouldn't be opposed to Jean taking a larger role in the greater Marvel universe.

    As for Logan, it doesn't look like he'll have much of a role in Phoenix Resurrection. All the covers and even the preview art show Old Man Logan still active. I suspect that Marvel has separate plans for Logan. I think they'll try to make him part of another major X-men event in 2018. Eventually, I think he will meet up with the rest of the X-men and even have a nice reunion with Jean. Beyond that, though, it doesn't look like he'll have much of a role in Phoenix Resurrection.
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  15. #15
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    I am very curious how this story will play out. So far it seems like Jean is either already resurrected when the story begins or in the process of resurrecting. Perhaps her powers are so strong now that she is manipulating reality around her without realizing it. Maybe she's in the White Hot Room but she believes she is living her life without the X-men and without the Phoenix. Maybe her reality was created by the Phoenix to give Jean what it feels she deserved - a normal life without the burden of the Phoenix. Jean is trapped in this reality until she figures out that it is fake and then proceeds to escape. In this scenario Ghost Jean would be a part of Jean's consciousness that is effecting the real world. Rosenburg said there would be a few creepy moments and we saw the art with the kids on the ground with the X-men and police standing over them. Maybe Jean's family are temporarily resurrected when Jean is living her fake reality?

    Or maybe there is a hidden villain who is manipulating both Jean and the Phoenix. There are a lot of possibilities here. A lot of stories have been made about villains wanting to obtain the power of Phoenix (Sublime Beast in HCT, Cassandra in X-men The End, X-men 92, and What If Astonishing X-men).

    About Endsong, it was put in continuity in an issue of Uncanny X-men that Claremont wrote (I don't recall the issue number). Rachel mentions Jean coming back briefly but cries that she died for good and is forever separated from Phoenix. If you recall many of us were confused about Claremont's interpretation of Phoenix Endsong #5. But the more I think about it Jean/Phoenix saved the X-men from the Event Horizon (but earlier it was shown to be something that could hurt/shatter the Phoenix). So Jean may have saved Scott and the X-men, but it likely killed her (sent her back to White Hot Room), and shattered the Phoenix all over again.

    I know in recent years they ignored Jean finding the missing pieces of the Phoenix (Mike Carey seem to acknowledge it when Rachel lost the blue Phoenix, as Rachel assumed it was Jean's doing). We know the phoenix came together for Hope (we also know Jean made ghostly appearances a couple times during Hope's story - but it is unclear what her role was other than giving Emma a heads up and telling Scott to let go). I'm kinda tired of the Phoenix being fragmented, but with the revelation in Jean Grey #8 we know of at least one fragment out there. Maybe they are returning to the idea that Jean and Phoenix are trying to become whole - maybe Jean is almost ready to become whole. We know they are acknowledging that Jean is caught in a cycle of death and rebirth, which is kind of about time - instead of insisting she is dead and with no way back.

    In Endsong Jean references it is too soon and she is not ready showing that Jean herself assumed she would eventually be reborn. Even though Here Comes Tomorrow is viewed by many as not in continuity when Jean cuts away the timeline the panel clearly states it is "Now" and not 150 years in the future. I always saw Jean cutting away the timeline as something she did soon after dying in New X-men 150 (that she was in the White Hot Room a place beyond time/space).

    I hope when Jean is having her nightmares about her true life that we seen an acknowledgment of many of Jean's important events - original Phoenix years, Grant Morrison's run including Here Comes Tomorrow (Jean in Endsong quotes herself from the future and I hate that many fans see it as an alternate Jean). I want to see what happens to Jean now that she has to find her humanity and the struggle from going from goddess back to being human (Dennis Hopeless once said on twitter he sees the WHR as an afterlife for Phoenix hosts and said we would eventually get an explanation about why ghost jean is around). I think Jean will retain the Phoenix after this series but with Marvel you can't assume anything. I want Jean and the Phoenix to be used to fight the Celestial, but I want Jean to remain an X-man. I want her to be powerful but she doesn't need to have god-like powers. I'm not sure how they could depower her and still have her Phoenix powered.

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