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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    My 1000th post!!!

    I thought i should do something special for this post. My first thought was to post here. The most important character responsible for this milestone is Jonathan Samuel Kent. All credit to the people behind the Superman titles. And of course to other titles that i am reading. DC has done a marvelous job since Rebirth.

    Superman #1 is very special for me. I have already posted about one favorite moment from that issue in this thread. There's more. But right now i wish to point another one which comes right at the end and continues to the next issue.



    Jon is a well written character and not just someone adorable. This was the time before Reborn rewrote Superman's history. Jon had recently discovered that his father is Superman. His parents were in a difficult time. The Kents were living under the alias of White. They were from another universe. Thus, they were practically exiles who had lost their world. This world was strange. Every one and every thing they knew was similar yet different. They had lost everything they loved or cared for. The name 'White' was taken out of respect for Perry White. After the death of this world's Superman, his father was taking his place. The world needs a Superman. (Love this quote!)

    This was possibly the first private meeting of the Trinity. The world's greatest heroes were meeting in the Kent farm (then White). For us the fans its the meeting of Legends. But for Jonathan it was in a completely different perspective. "Who are these strangers? Why have they come in the night? Is my father in danger? Have they come to take me away?" Jon is just a child. He maybe Superboy but he is a boy who is seeing something unusual and eerie.



    The boy is literally shaking from that experience! But then there is Superman. The one person who takes away your fear and makes you feel alright. These are beautiful moments.

    Finally let me end with this.



    It might not be much (In reality it is). But it is a special picture for me and is fitting for my 1000th post!
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 11-07-2017 at 09:38 PM.

  2. #62
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    @Ascended He quit in the current beyond series leading to Terry. Rise of the Demon which deals with Damian's return to the universe also mentions his time as Batman.

    Superman Beyond series anyone?
    I'd be fine with Jon as Superman Beyond, mostly because I consider that a "possible" future only. Certain things with that timeline (as far as I can tell, there's been a lot of mess there in recent years) don't match other details of the current DCU or other futures we're supposed to accept as being likely. For example, it seems unlikely that Bruce would retire, Damien would take over, go through what he goes through in the "666" future, and then things swing around to Neo-Gotham and Terry with enough time for Bruce to still only be 80-ish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    Now its a topic i have some mixed feelings. Intellectually Superman dying in 80-100 years of age works better in my opinion. But what appeals to my heart is Superman Dynasty mentioned in DC One Million.

    DC One Million is my way to end the story of Superman.
    Oh, DC 1 Million is absolutely my "future" for Superman. And I have no issue with Jon being Superman Secondus.....its just a matter of when that happens. Does it happen in ten-fifteen years, or fifty? Or a hundred? Or a thousand? (probably not a thousand....) This comes back around to how long Clark lives, and that's something that changes with each new continuity (and sometimes with each new writer). For myself, I think Clark lives a very long life. He lives long enough to see the Legion he helped inspire come to pass, and possibly beyond even that. So to that end, seeing Jon take the mantle when Clark is still a young man (under a century) seems out of place.

    I would not, however, be at all against Jon becoming the "Superman of Earth" when his dad decides its time to start working on the "really" big picture and goes full-on cosmic.

    Also, congrats on your 1000th post!
    Last edited by Ascended; 11-07-2017 at 04:17 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Oh, DC 1 Million is absolutely my "future" for Superman. And I have no issue with Jon being Superman Secondus.....its just a matter of when that happens. Does it happen in ten-fifteen years, or fifty? Or a hundred? Or a thousand? (probably not a thousand....) This comes back around to how long Clark lives, and that's something that changes with each new continuity (and sometimes with each new writer). For myself, I think Clark lives a very long life. He lives long enough to see the Legion he helped inspire come to pass, and possibly beyond even that. So to that end, seeing Jon take the mantle when Clark is still a young man (under a century) seems out of place.

    I would not, however, be at all against Jon becoming the "Superman of Earth" when his dad decides its time to start working on the "really" big picture and goes full-on cosmic.

    Also, congrats on your 1000th post!
    Thank you!

    When Jon takes up the mantle of Secundus does depend upon the lifetime of Superman. I find some appeal in a lifetime of 80 years.



    This is something that Superman seeks to inspire within others. A lifetime similar to an average man drives the point more effectively. If he lives for a thousand years he is different from others. People have to fight to live. Unlike Superman who is free of such struggle because he has a larger lifespan. With whatever time we have we shall try to help each other. Yes one needs to fight to live. But that is no excuse from one's responsibility to look out for each other.

    With this Superman becomes a legendary figure. Just somebody like Robin Hood or King Arthur, legends which outlast their lifetimes. This perfectly fits LOSH who are inspired by Superman a thousand years after him. This is one reason they want to meet him in the past. Btw LOSH is one of the coolest ideas ever. I say this with hardly reading a book of them. They are fans who want to meet their idol. How cool is it! They represent the future. A future full of hope. Which always should be the story of Superman considering the fact that he is hope personified. A future where everything is alright and people of myriads of planets are living together indicates that inspite of the dastardly attempts of the likes of Darkseid the heroes won in the end.

    And there is one thing which really drives it home when i see him die within 80 years. Lois Lane. Superman loves Lois Lane. Until the end of time. A story without her makes me loose a lot of its charm. Because inspite of all types of love interests which the Man Of Steel has had over the years there is no one to match her. (Sorry SM-WW fans). Other love interests for Superman are made in response to Lois Lane who was there from the very beginning. When Grant Morrison wrote DC One Million and All Star Superman whom i see as one story he has placed Lois as the one love for Superman. We see All Star Superman as the essence of everything that is Superman. How can i ever forget this?

    Last edited by Soubhagya; 11-08-2017 at 12:06 AM.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Or the unnatural hope of Lois Lane. She maybe a woman but she is not an ordinary woman. Why else Superman falls in love of her? Physically she may not be a match but in everything else she is his perfect match.



    The story of Superman is something in which imagination is the only limit and impossible is literally only a word in the dictionary. They live happily ever after. This is why i push aside all such ideas that i mentioned before.

    This is why i find the ending truly perfect in DC One Million apart from the fact that this is the ending truly fitting for Superman. An ending full of optimism and hope where everything is alright. Thanks to Superman and everyone whom he has inspired directly or indirectly. This story is in the grandest possible scale just as he himself is.



    Superman really meant it. He never lies. (Except for the fact that he is Clark Kent as well as Superman. But you know the drill. He fights for Truth, Justice and the American Way).

    In my canon Lois develops superpowers of her own and joins her husband as a crime fighting, world saving hero sometime in the near future if not at the end of DC One Million. I love the Incredibles. The whole family of superheroes who save the world together. Why shall the mother stay behind?



    Let Jon take care of Earth as 'Superman of Earth', while Superman and Lois as 'Superwoman' go cosmic.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 11-07-2017 at 11:59 PM.

  5. #65
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    Thank you!

    When Jon takes up the mantle of Secundus does depend upon the lifetime of Superman. I find some appeal in a lifetime of 80 years.

    This is something that Superman seeks to inspire within others. A lifetime similar to an average man drives the point more effectively. If he lives for a thousand years he is different from others.
    Well, Clark IS different from others, regardless of how long he lives. The guy's (one of) the last of his kind and experiences the universe in a vastly different way than we do, with a brain that doesn't quite work the same way as our's (his binary morality points to this, normal people don't see the world in such stark black and white). He's already different. And his lifespan is largely just an academic concept anyway, because his story will never actually advance to the point readers have to worry about him out-living everyone. We'll never see continuity reach the point where Lois is retired and Clark still looks like he's 35, yknow?

    But I do agree that there's a certain appeal in Clark having a normal lifespan. I can go either way, because I do love the poignancy of this alien man-god, the last light of his species, existing for such a brief time. I prefer a long-lived Superman, who eventually, one day, looks around him and realizes that his wife has passed, and all his other friends (aside from a few immortals in the League) have died too, and earth no long needs him, so he just....moves on. To bigger and grander adventures (eventually coming back around to the 1 Million type ending with Lois returned to him). But I have no problem with Clark dying at 80, its just not my preference. I generally prefer a bigger, more mythological scope in my Superman.
    Last edited by Ascended; 11-08-2017 at 08:45 AM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well, Clark IS different from others, regardless of how long he lives. The guy's (one of) the last of his kind and experiences the universe in a vastly different way than we do, with a brain that doesn't quite work the same way as our's (his binary morality points to this, normal people don't see the world in such stark black and white). He's already different. And his lifespan is largely just an academic concept anyway, because his story will never actually advance to the point readers have to worry about him out-living everyone. We'll never see continuity reach the point where Lois is retired and Clark still looks like he's 35, yknow?

    But I do agree that there's a certain appeal in Clark having a normal lifespan. I can go either way, because I do love the poignancy of this alien man-god, the last light of his species, existing for such a brief time. I prefer a long-lived Superman, who eventually, one day, looks around him and realizes that his wife has passed, and all his other friends (aside from a few immortals in the League) have died too, and earth no long needs him, so he just....moves on. To bigger and grander adventures (eventually coming back around to the 1 Million type ending with Lois returned to him). But I have no problem with Clark dying at 80, its just not my preference. I generally prefer a bigger, more mythological scope in my Superman.
    Yes Superman is different. Crux of my idea was that his death in 80 years of age makes him a legendary or a mythical figure. Someone who keeps inspiring everyone thousands of years into the future after his death. His life's story becomes stuff of legends and stories which people cherish and learn from, thousands of years into the future. It is close to the idea that what matters is not a long lifespan but what you do with the limited time you have.

    This is something i want to know from a reader who has read stories from the previous ages. Golden, Silver, Bronze and Modern. I think Superman staying young while others age naturally is not a part of Superman's myth originally. It was not a part for large part of history but was made so by Dark Knight Returns'. As a Superman fan its a really bad book with harmful effects to Superman. I would be sad to know that this slowly aging Superman arose from that book.

    One issue with that is the tendency of writers to write him as a sad, self pitying, lonely person. A 200 year old Superman is ripe for such an interpretation. Dark and jaded heroism is not suitable for Superman. Then the writers put him in love affairs with others after Lois' death. As i said before i can't see someone else. Poor Lois always dies.

    This brings a kind of repulsion to a Superman who lives for 800 years. 80 years fine. Practically immortal like DC One Million perfect. But 800 years of age. I don't like it if the above points are made.

    Personally i don't think Superman actually fits into Beyond future. Its a future designed for Batman. It has dystopian characteristics and is a kind of proof for heroes' failure which suits Batman but not Superman. Superman stays for years but the world instead of improving turns worse.

    Anyway as you said all this are academic discussions. Superman isn't getting older then 35. It has turned up because we were discussing Jon and his future. I would still like to know if Superman aging slowly is a contribution of Dark Knight Returns or not and your views on what i mentioned. If you feel its not a place to discuss this being Jon's appreciation thread please PM me. And yes i prefer the grand nature of storytelling which is possible in Superman.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 11-08-2017 at 11:17 AM.

  7. #67
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'll throw you a PM later on today, I feel like this is getting away from the purpose of the thread.

    But you do bring up a great point; the Beyond universe is built for Batman and his particular brand of cynicism and brooding. And its a beautiful thing that works really well, but it's not the kind of future a Superman would build.

    Now, Ive long believed that, somewhere down the road in a future we'll never actually reach, Superman has nearly finished grooming the world for the kind of future he wants to see us eventually reach; that bright, optimistic world of the Legion. He's almost got us to the point where that future is our endpoint. But that's a world built on hope and wonder and curiosity. There's not much room for the kind of gloom and doom you see out of Gotham.

    And so the last hurdle Superman needs to overcome, the last "foe" he has to surpass before the Never Ending Battle is ended....is Batman. Because the future Batman wants to build (the only future he *can* build) can't exist with Clark's vision. They're diametrically opposed; Batman being a creature of fear and Superman one of hope.

    So what does this all has to do with Jon?......do Jon and Damien offer a way around that final confrontation? If the first Age of Heroism is going to boil down to "Superman vs Batman" is the friendship between their two kids the avenue to avoid that confrontation? And if so, should it be used as such? Would a world with equal amounts of "Superman" and "Batman" in it be better than a world built on the values and characteristics of just one? Does the friendship between these two kids offer the chance for their fathers to embrace a little bit of the other's mentality and worldview?
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  8. #68

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yeah, I'll throw you a PM later on today, I feel like this is getting away from the purpose of the thread.

    But you do bring up a great point; the Beyond universe is built for Batman and his particular brand of cynicism and brooding. And its a beautiful thing that works really well, but it's not the kind of future a Superman would build.

    Now, Ive long believed that, somewhere down the road in a future we'll never actually reach, Superman has nearly finished grooming the world for the kind of future he wants to see us eventually reach; that bright, optimistic world of the Legion. He's almost got us to the point where that future is our endpoint. But that's a world built on hope and wonder and curiosity. There's not much room for the kind of gloom and doom you see out of Gotham.

    And so the last hurdle Superman needs to overcome, the last "foe" he has to surpass before the Never Ending Battle is ended....is Batman. Because the future Batman wants to build (the only future he *can* build) can't exist with Clark's vision. They're diametrically opposed; Batman being a creature of fear and Superman one of hope.

    So what does this all has to do with Jon?......do Jon and Damien offer a way around that final confrontation? If the first Age of Heroism is going to boil down to "Superman vs Batman" is the friendship between their two kids the avenue to avoid that confrontation? And if so, should it be used as such? Would a world with equal amounts of "Superman" and "Batman" in it be better than a world built on the values and characteristics of just one? Does the friendship between these two kids offer the chance for their fathers to embrace a little bit of the other's mentality and worldview?

    I don't think the First Age of Heroes will end in a conflict between Batman and Superman. That conflict is blown out of proportion. Their ways are different but they work for common goals. This is one reason Batman v Superman did not work. Unless you change a character fundamentally there can't be a war between them.

    Beyond Future is a future which Batman does not want to happen but it happens. The future shown by Legion is what every hero is fighting for. Batman does not have a vision for the whole world. But it definitely is not Gotham city of Beyond. I am thinking that while Gotham becomes worse the outside world becomes better. Beyond future is designed for Batman. Batman of the future has to face bigger challenges then the original. How else do you justify his existence?

    I believe Jon and Damian will keep on the good work of their parents. Which may lead to blows once in a while. But a Batman and Superman fight always ends in minutes. One reason is Batman can't fight for more then a few minutes. Honestly, how can Batman fight against Superman? And also because they are heroes. If heroes can't cooperate for the common good how can they be called heroes?




    Okay it may possibly be not like this. But a final battle appears far fetched.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 11-08-2017 at 09:58 PM.

  10. #70
    Incredible Member The Learner's Avatar
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    Well well, little Jonno really needed an appreciation thread. Good job guys. I will try to contribute once I get back my laptop from service center.

  11. #71
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    I don't think the First Age of Heroes will end in a conflict between Batman and Superman. That conflict is blown out of proportion. Their ways are different but they work for common goals. This is one reason Batman v Superman did not work. Unless you change a character fundamentally there can't be a war between them.
    I admit to having a strong streak of Frank Miller in the way I see Batman, so that is a bias on my part.

    I used to feel the same way you do, that their methodologies weren't so vastly different compared to their end games. But at one point, it came to me that they'd never intentionally be enemies, and their final confrontation would likely be more philosophical than physical (that's always the wrong choice here) but its almost an inevitable clash based on the central themes they both conform to. The immovable object and the unstoppable force.

    I was looking at the various versions of Bruce (with an eye towards "old" Bruce) that seem the most popular; Kingdom Come, DKR, Beyond, etc., and realized many of them go off the deep end a little, with drone armies and privacy invading spy technology. And then there's the Brother Eyes and Babel protocols and Hulkbuster armors. That element of "control through fear" runs deep in his character, right down to the inspiration for his costume. Bruce never intends to build a Gotham out of fear, but he's the Batman. He *is* fear. There was never any other possible outcome for him. He is what he is, and Gotham is a reflection of that. He can never save his city from itself.

    And Superman, his narrative trajectory is just as locked in by what he symbolizes and personifies. Superman *is* hope, and the world he builds can't be founded on anything else. And what is fear, but the absence of hope? And in looking at examples of Superman's big picture thinking, I noticed that he's actually as terrifying as Bruce, in his own way. Zone projectors capable of capturing everyone on earth. Gulags for anyone who doesn't agree with him. Armies of robots. He's utterly implacable, unstoppable, and if he thinks he's right there is nothing he won't do if pushed (he's even killed more people than most of his peers, despite really not liking it). His binary world view doesn't allow for a ton of mitigation, either. And the Never Ending Battle can't end while there's still a place on earth not going blind with hope. A place like a city as blind as a bat.

    I think, from a philosophical perspective, these two embody the two extremes of justice, and when every other foe has been conquered, it'll be these two standing in the way of the other's vision for the future (or rather, the natural end result of their respective crusades; neither builds the future they intend). Who else could it be, but these two? It's Biblical.

    EDIT: Crap, we're getting off topic again. I'll send you that PM. Sorry I didnt get to it today, a paper (on philosophy, which might explain my weird ideas here) got the best of me.
    Last edited by Ascended; 11-09-2017 at 10:51 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  12. #72
    Mighty Member fanfan13's Avatar
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    wow I didn't know there is a Jon Kent appreciation thread. I'm glad someone finally did it.

    Jon has really grown on me since I first read Superman: Lois and Clark back then in order to understand the circumstance surrounding Rebirth Superman if I wanted to read and follow both Rebirth Superman and Action Comics. I liked it even more that this kid would have a dynamic with my most fav Damian (I admit this is the biggest reason why I was drawn to the character). While I like him in Superman title and the family dynamic between Clark, Lois, and Jon, I think Jon is shining even more in Super Sons. He is so cute and innocent but still has his witty remarks against Damian. He is the only person beside Dick and Alfred whom Damian can feel at ease with these days and both boys really have a great dynamic that I dig.

    I really hope Jon will stay for a long time.

    However, I've already said this in Damian appreciation thread before and I will say it again, I'm getting tired of the tendency to write Jon going against his father's side or be responsible for a bad, massive incident in the future. I mean he's like he was just created last year and already has several possibilities of him going dark. He's Superman's son after all, not Batman's, and that going dark tendency doesn't really sit well with me.

    That being said, I really hope the upcoming Super Sons of Tomorrow arc will be handled well. I'm afraid if there will be things that will taint the Super Sons friendship that has developed in a closer way up to Super Sons #9. I hope that won't be the case of issue #12.
    Last edited by fanfan13; 11-10-2017 at 11:40 AM.

  13. #73
    OUTRAGEOUS!! Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    From what was hinted by TomorrowTim, it seems like it was Damien the one who did something bad to Jon.
    "Never assign to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity or ignorance."

    "Great stories will always return to their original forms"

    "Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart; for his purity, by definition, is unassailable." James Baldwin

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    From what was hinted by TomorrowTim, it seems like it was Damien the one who did something bad to Jon.
    Of course because God forbid an Al Ghul be not evil. One drop rule. Why can't these boys just be. The previous generation can be restored without a story that poops on the new generation.
    Kon and Tim can be restored without some BS about Damian corrupting Jon or Jon killing millions but DC has to DC
    Last edited by CPSparkles; 11-10-2017 at 01:40 PM.

  15. #75
    Astonishing Member sakuyamons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    From what was hinted by TomorrowTim, it seems like it was Damien the one who did something bad to Jon.
    Tim of Tomorrow says many things.

    Though I agree that is getting tired that they write Jon against his father -- but I don't think it's inherently a bad thing, sidekicks (though Jon isn't one in the perfect sense of the word) tend to not meet their mentors eye-to-eye. I actually think that what happened in Action Comics was way better for his character than Black Dawn was, because (imo) he has to learn his dad isn't perfect (he is super, but not perfect )

    I'm highly interested in Super Sons of tomorrow, because obviously I want Kon back, but first I want to know what happened in Tim's "Bad future". Because Kon exists and apparently Jon does too (or rather...did?). So I want to see why SuperKon's reasons.

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