Detective Comics #968 Preview / Discussion (Spoilers)

[Assam]

What did Tomasi do with Cass that pissed you off so much?

Gone over this enough times on threads so I'll PM you.

[Aioros22]

The Bennett here is Joe Bennett, the artist.



Oh wow. That's not the case at all. This person is failing to account for those time fluctuation things; they certainly don't look very pleasant, and Bat!Tim goes through three of them before that final fight. Is it really unreasonable to think that those took a lot out of him?

Yeah that`s what it looked to me too.

The biggest crime here is that nobody is surprised to really see Tim back beyond Bruce, we still don`t know what made Tim special to Oz to be imprisioned (altho it`s probably hinted to have something to do with Connor, maybe, but that`s a big maybe), and we still don`t know what Kate did

[Aioros22]

Gone over this enough times on threads so I'll PM you.

No problem, hit me up.

[Frontier]

He also needs to never come near the Bat Books again. Seriously, give him a "Robins" book, and I guarantee you he'd just give Cass fans more reasons to be pissed.

If what you've said about Tomasi is any indication I doubt Cass would even be in a Robins book, unless there was a plan for a big "Robin - Batgirl" team-up issue.

[Assam]

If what you've said about Tomasi is any indication I doubt Cass would even be in a Robins book, unless there was a plan for a big "Robin - Batgirl" team-up issue.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Obviously, the Batgirls wouldn't be appearing regularly in a "Robins" book no matter what, but I'm saying I don't want any more repeats of "The Whole Family" scene or anything like that.

[Frontier]

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Obviously, the Batgirls wouldn't be appearing regularly in a "Robins" book no matter what, but I'm saying I don't want any more repeats of "The Whole Family" scene or anything like that.

Well, Barbara and Steph might have recurring roles if only because they're the love interests of their respective Robins (Tim, not Damian), but that's about it.

[Assam]

Really just highlighting my problems with a 'Robins' book in general. There are the ones I've raised before of it not being all the Robins without Steph or all the kids with Cass, but then there's the matter that ties into them both: Sexism. Now obviously a book starring Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian it it of itself isn't sexist; that'd be ridiculous and make no sense. However, we can't forget history. Fact is, the way the BatFamily was hit by the Nu52 was sexist, and even people who aren't fans of Cass or Steph acknowledge this. The only daughter, the only female Robin and two of the three Batgirls were erased while all four male Robins remained. That alone created a degree of separation, and is why we now have people seeing them as less important than the boys.

[EMarie]

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Obviously, the Batgirls wouldn't be appearing regularly in a "Robins" book no matter what, but I'm saying I don't want any more repeats of "The Whole Family" scene or anything like that.

That ticked me off too, for Cass and Jason. With Jason I think he can write him okay but I'm not sure if he likes the character. I recall Kate calling him an idiot for no reason. The issue where Bruce takes Jason to his death site then has everyone brush it off like it wasn't any worse than yelling at Tim and Barbara. Damian triggers Jason's PTSD and it's mentioned in passing like it was a sweet story. I think there was also a story he did that took place in the future when Bruce was an old man where neither Cass or Jason showed up.

BTW how would you define Cass' current placement in th family? Who do you think she is closest to and who do you think she should be closer to?

[Aahz]

That ticked me off too, for Cass and Jason. With Jason I think he can write him okay but I'm not sure if he likes the character. I recall Kate calling him an idiot for no reason. The issue where Bruce takes Jason to his death site then has everyone brush it off like it wasn't any worse than yelling at Tim and Barbara. Damian triggers Jason's PTSD and it's mentioned in passing like it was a sweet story. I think there was also a story he did that took place in the future when Bruce was an old man where neither Cass or Jason showed up.

I don't like how he handled Jason in B&R, but the Arkham Comics were ok.

BTW how would you define Cass' current placement in th family? Who do you think she is closest to and who do you think she should be closer to?

At the moment with Steph and Harper out of Batfamily, she is only close to Clayface.

[Aahz]

@Aahz Tomasi's Batman and Robin was great but the one negative was not much Dick Grayson. I know his Nightwing run was good but I would still take King over him because King's Dd makes my heart melt, his Duke is Sassy, His Jason Damian banter is on point and most important of all they feel like brothers

Kings treatment of Jason is imo crap.

[CPSparkles]

Really just highlighting my problems with a 'Robins' book in general. There are the ones I've raised before of it not being all the Robins without Steph or all the kids with Cass, but then there's the matter that ties into them both: Sexism. Now obviously a book starring Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian it it of itself isn't sexist; that'd be ridiculous and make no sense. However, we can't forget history. Fact is, the way the BatFamily was hit by the Nu52 was sexist, and even people who aren't fans of Cass or Steph acknowledge this. The only daughter, the only female Robin and two of the three Batgirls were erased while all four male Robins remained. That alone created a degree of separation, and is why we now have people seeing them as less important than the boys.

Wasn't Tim Robin erased? I mean that's the whole point of current Tec bringing him back and restoring his history as Robin. not saying Steph wasn't erased but lets no forget Tim who was butchered and parts of him given to others.

[Assam]

The issue where Bruce takes Jason to his death site then has everyone brush it off like it wasn't any worse than yelling at Tim and Barbara.

I only learned about that scene relatively recently, but boy did it piss me right the Hell off.

BTW how would you define Cass' current placement in th family? Who do you think she is closest to and who do you think she should be closer to?

In a meta sense, she's core BatFamily, but in-universe, she's just one of the Gotham Knights and not treated with the reverence she deserves, hoping to see that change soon. She's pretty clearly currently closest to Clayface. I'd like to see her relationships with Bruce, Steph and Tim re-developed, I want to see more of her with the rest of her brothers, but Jason in particular since there are just so many interesting possibilities there, and of course I'd like to see the most important relationship in her life re-established...but that one just isn't possible.

[Assam]

Wasn't Tim Robin erased? I mean that's the whole point of current Tec bringing him back and restoring his history as Robin. not saying Steph wasn't erased but lets no forget Tim who was butchered and parts of him given to others.

Tim was treated like garbage by the Nu52. There's no denying that. It's still not comparable to Cass and Steph (Not to mention Helena) though. He wasn't wiped from canon. He was in publication throughout the Nu52. He didn't need to be re-introduced.

[adrikito]

Really just highlighting my problems with a 'Robins' book in general. There are the ones I've raised before of it not being all the Robins without Steph or all the kids with Cass, but then there's the matter that ties into them both: Sexism. Now obviously a book starring Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian it it of itself isn't sexist; that'd be ridiculous and make no sense.

we can't forget history. Fact is, the way the BatFamily was hit by the Nu52 was sexist, and even people who aren't fans of Cass or Steph acknowledge this. The only daughter, the only female Robin and two of the three Batgirls were erased while all four male Robins remained. That alone created a degree of separation, and is why we now have people seeing them as less important than the boys.

You are right... This is Sexist...... We lose the important achievements of two awesome characters.. And all this nonsense of burnside continues here? I don´t know what is worst..

[Godlike13]

Generally, people have always seen them as less important than the boys. Which is what happens when they just aren't shown to be important to anything.