Disney in talks with FOX to purchase 21st Century Fox

[SpiderClops]

Well, to be fair, Hulk's origin story was the opening credits montage in his solo movie (and really good, too). Spider-Man's was kinda hinted at in Civil War. Also, in general, new characters getting movies always get origins story movies in the MCU. (I find it kind of funny that Spidey is one of the few exceptions, given that his origin story is one of the few that you arguably need to fully understand the character, more so than say, Batman.)

But that's not retread, is it? I think MCU understands pretty well that one time origin story is enough, even if the previous one was done in a different continuity. Small flashbacks and some hints are enough.

Of course they didn't do another origin story for Spider-Man, it's iconic and that's exactly why. It's been done perfectly before by Raimi. No need to do it again. That's what one of the complaints was against the Amazing Spider-Man movie. Everybody knows Spider-Man's origin, same way everybody knows Superman and Bataman's origin(learn something DC).

[WebLurker]

But that's not retread, is it? I think MCU understands pretty well that one time origin story is enough, even if the previous one was done in a different continuity. Small flashbacks and some hints are enough.

Of course they didn't do another origin story for Spider-Man, it's iconic and that's exactly why. It's been done perfectly before by Raimi. No need to do it again. That's what one of the complaints was against the Amazing Spider-Man movie. Everybody knows Spider-Man's origin, same way everybody knows Superman and Bataman's origin(learn something DC).

I can see the point.

[Jaddor]

And Margaret Loesch. If she hadn't fought and fought and fought to do an X-Men series for over 10 years and truly believed in the property, we wouldn't have the X-Men animated series and likely the movie franchise.

If people aren't familiar with her, she was the head of Marvel Animation (which made everything from Muppet Babies to GI Joe) and then took over Fox Kids. Stan Lee pitched X-Men to her when they were working on Spider-man & His Amazing Friends and she truly believed in the comic as having the potential to be a hit.

Here's a few more great interviews:
http://www.toonzone.net/forums/threa...x-men.4449741/






Stan wasn't exactly the one saying X-Men couldn't be dumbed down. Larry Houston, Will Meugniot and a lot of other artists and writers involved early on had been working on GI Joe and Transformers and wanted to work on something aimed at an older audience. Kids really did leave Transformers the Movie crying over the death of the characters. (And killing Morph wasn't exactly killing Optimus Prime or Duke in a movie, which that article references.)

Lewald in the interview below talks about Stan's involvement in X-Men TAS:

https://geeks.media/x-men-the-animat...sary-interview

Stan's main contribution was giving Margaret Loesch some early 80s X-Men comics mainly featuring Kitty Pryde and Loesch was convinced from those that X-Men would be huge.


As for adult content and watch dog groups, that's actually overstated that it was an issue. Margaret Loesch was exec producer for most of Dungeons & Dragons which aired on CBS and they actually had far less complaints about that show than anyone would have thought. The main change was that they were targeting an older audience and believing that audience existed - that anyone over the age of 8 had any interest in watching cartoons and that advertisers would pay to advertise to that group. NBC turned down the X-Men series in the early 80s because millions of comic book readers were meaningless to them when they wanted millions of 5-8 year olds watching their cartoons. Loesch ended up getting X-Men on at the 7pm Sunday PRIMETIME slot with millions of adults watching.

stan lee was still a pop culture solider then, it is not like now. but it does not matter, what matters is people stood their grounds on the series and wanted to keep all the adult content of xmen in tas. that cannot happen in todays under marvel. please just look at how their cartoons and movies are so awful compared to TAS or the xmen movies. they are awful for the same reasons tas would ave been awful if the watchdog groups have won.

[Jaddor]

I thought the show was one of those things that people who were kids in the day remembered fondly, but wasn't exactly an animation icon, like say the '80s Teenage Mutant Ninaj Turtles cartoon.



Batman, not so sure about X-Men. When talking about greatest cartoon series, you've got stuff like Looney Tunes, Tom and Jerry, vintage Mickey Mouse and company. Not sure X-Men is anywhere near that.

Animaniacs, Pinky and the Brain, Spectacular Spider-Man, Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Rebels, and the Nick iteration of TMNT have also proven to be a cut above the rest IMHO, and I know that some people would put things like Gargoyles, Gravity Falls, and Adventure Time pretty high, too.

(And looking at X-Men stuff itself, I've heard cases made that Wolverine and the X-Men was arguably the best that the characters have been in animation. Personally, X-Men: Evolution gets my vote, although I will concede that there were more hit and miss stuff than other series I've seen.)



Yes.



That makes no sense; they're talking about a TV series aimed at kids, not a movie series for teens and adults. (Also, the article talks a lot about how the show used serialized storytelling at a time when that was rare; that kind of storytelling doesn't work that well for move series; neither the X-Men or the MCU use it.)



I'm actually not in favor of the buyout myself (which is currently not happening, so, unless we hear otherwise, this is a lot of stressing over nothing).



Logan wouldn't've been made for sure (but since we do have it, why worry about it?). The others I could see possibly being made (although I doubt DOFP would've been allowed to almost totally reboot the universe like it was). However, I'm not sure about the MCU having a soul-less formula; they have shaken things up in different movies (different genres, different stakes, very different characters).



You do realize that you're comparing different genres, right? Both the Avengers and Guardians franchises have their unique styles from the other MCU movies (compare Guardians to the Captain America films, for example). While I'm sure that an MCU X-Men movie would be designed to be tonally enough like the rest of the MCU that it would be believable that they're in the same world, we have seen that all the movie series within it have their own identities.



You lost me.



Thought Daredevil was a fan favorite. I will concede that I sort-of agree with you on two points; I think the X-Men franchise is big enough that it works better as it's own movie series rather than being welded into the MCU so late in the game. I'm also really hoping that the X-23 spinoff movie gets made, so I'd very very sad to see that go if a sale did ever happen. However, I don't understand how we know what Marvel Studios would do with the X-Men property if they ever got it (which they aren't at the moment), since there's nothing to base a theory on (also, Marvel Studios has a great track record with their own properties in general, so that's a point in their favor).



I think that the core X-Men characters would be on the same team for sure in any movie reboot. Also, the current X-Men series has kept a lot of characters separate (Wolverine never met Jubilee in the movies, and Gambit and Rogue haven't even been in the same film, and X-23 isn't going to meet her comic book friends, like Jubilee, Gambit, and Angel if a movie about her gets made). On top of that, wasn't part of the point of having Marvel do X-Men to get them interacting with MCU characters like they often do in the comics?



There is the dark side to creative freedom; the X-Men movie world is internally inconsistent and seems to be making less and less sense as time goes on. Doesn't change the fact that some specific movies are good (or bad) on their own terms, but one of the main reasons to make a movie franchise a series as opposed to a series of stand-alones based on the same source materials is to make a larger story and world.

Now, to be totally honest, I'm not sure cinematic universes are inherently a good thing (the only ones I can think of that are good are MCU, DCEU, Star Wars, and Star Trek; the former two are based on material that emulates the idea of cinematic universes while the latter two make up for it with very deep mythologies and world-building that puts the MCU to shame). However, I think when they work, they can be very enjoyable. Like anything creative, I think both are the answer. Sometimes, a cinematic universe is very satisfying, other times, something that stands alone as its own thing is more enjoyable.

-ah, I did expect a loose loose explain away reply but I rather keeps thing accurate because it seems the only way some may want to bring xmen to the mcu is to dismiss the impact and nature of the xmen mythos.

To say TAS was not an animated ICONIC show is incorrect on every level. This was a show that defined the 90s maybe more than TMTN or batman tas. Reason the show got a big celebration last week. Please you don’t think this is iconic. Read this piece
https://www.cbr.com/x-men-animated-s...h-anniversary/
X-Men Turns 25: The Animated Series That Changed Everything.
Happy birthday, X-Men: The Animated Series. You haven’t aged a day — at lease, that theme song hasn’t. You know it’s playing in your head right now — doo dedoo doo doo doo dedoo doo doo doo'.

That intro song alone, still has multiple karaoke’s today, to try and play down the impact of TAS is making go a full LMAO
Yes Batman too because you see before Disney came along marvel and dc were truly equals. DC had Batman TAS, Marvel had X-Men TAS. Did you just say mickey mouse? Lol. That is not a superhero show and that was for kids only.

I almost stop reading when you said ....spectacular Spiderman had more impact than X-Men TAS. Maybe we need to be more factual and ask marvel. You see marvel only celebrates one cartoon with pride and it is xmen tas not spectacular Spiderman.
Really spectacular spiderman is more iconic than xmen tas? NOT.

This is not about our personal favourites, this is about impact and nothing comes close to xmen tas for marvel. That has been factually proven by marvel itself. Wow, I never thought I will see the day when TAS would try to get dismissed just so xmen in the MCU can look plausible , This has made me laugh more than the jokes in mcu movies.

Not just sterilized story telling but something more important. as the piece said audiences were not stupid and could handle an adult approach to comic materials. MCU dISNEY movies are made to be stupid and to not appeal to an adult audiences at its core. Most of the directors and actors of mcu has said this as well so how much more proof do we need.

DOFP and X2 would not have been made the way fox made it. that was my point. DOFP will be more like Age Of Ultron, X2 will be more like Thor 1. MCU cannot make movies that play out like dramas with heavy content.
The genre is not relevant to marvel because all their films are the same and have the same tone and type of film making. See tor 3 and gotg. a real thor 3 movie will have been like LOTR. this is what would have made mcu movies different from one another.

Did I loose? Okay. Think of why characters like Daredevil and the punisher are on Netflix. Funny that the punisher was a re-occurring character in Spidernan TAS and was not watered down at all but he cannot make it into a Disney comic film now so he is stuck on netflix.

X-Mmen has no cinematic universe..yet. and this is not about cinematic universe this is about movies. MCU movies are weaker than xmen movies and are not good compared to xmen movies. at the core mcu has no film that can match Logan or DOFP because it all comes back to how disney makes their movies.

The dark side of creative freedom still works better for films compared to a place where films are monopolized.

forgive any typos...this is me rushing to work.

[Divine Spark]

Why the hell do you think they would retread prequel movies? They didn't do origin stories for neither Hulk nor Spider-Man.

That’s why I think Kevin Fiege said incorporating the X-Men is a bad time right. You have to redo the whole public founding out about mutants plot, which the last three films already dealt with.

[Xelossik]

That’s why I think Kevin Fiege said incorporating the X-Men is a bad time right. You have to redo the whole public founding out about mutants plot, which the last three films already dealt with.

mcu can go and tell origins of individual x-men which are more interesting than prequel trilogy.

[Jaddor]

[QUOTE=WebLurker;3231059]



- You now we can say things and we can look at the things that really occurred in spacetime. If iron man 2 dealt with his alcoholism then the film will not have been a mess. iron man 2 was when marvel went full Disney. The movie never dealt with it deeply. And the director wanted to make up for it in iron man 3 and Disney rejected that.
the E true story is here: http://www.comicsbeat.com/disney-rej...om-iron-man-3/
Disney rejects Tony Stark alcoholism storyline from Iron Man 3

MCU has two things, solo and team movies. They try more with solo since there is more time to focus on the character but their team movies are embarrassing because they is hardly any plot in their team movies. Their solo films are okay but they are not batman begins or logan or deadpool when it comes to characterization or story telling. Marvel movies don’t just provide the story for their characters to have actual depth. we see this more with RDJ saying playing tony is getting embarrassing. This has also been factually proven true from Edward Norton, to Mickey Rouke POV on making mcu movies are been frustrated

We don’t need morph in a movie, I only used morph as an example of what xmen characters go through. This not about morph, this is about how mcu will ban what happened to moprh and the consequences if they make an xmen movie.

And no civil war is not more character driven than first class because of the story structure. To compare the magneto and Charles to steve and tony is hearsay and laughable. Supporting characters in first class such as beast and mystique were more character driven than the others characters in civil war and no please don’t go there with DOFP. DOFP is a drama with comic book elements in it. civil war is a basic action movie with a derivative plot. Shaw vs Zemo?

They are making a gambit movie and yeah they want to make a black widow movie and make it a comedy.

the frustration of mcu incompetence should not be taken out on the xmen movies. Yes it is about a demon bear but it will be much more if you listen to the director and his vision. you know how we have weird dark creatures in fantasy that should not make sense but can if done right. i.e ...LOTR 1 has monster with a whip cane. Point is the tone of new mutants is so far off any mcu movie.people can hate on new mutants but people must still accept that fact..

Ant-Man is seen as one of the weakest mcu movies and one of their most funny. a crime heist film will not have fights on Thomas the tank engine because that is only what kids movies does and kids movies don’t tackle crime on a deep scale.

Star wars is not a comic book property.

I think your take on xmen tas has more do with trying so hard to de-legitimize everything the carton stood so for so xmen can make more sense in the mcu. Funny you said it has not aged well, because it is the opposite of the cbr piece and why it has aged well and the opinion of most people or pop culture pundits and actual critics that discuss movies and tv by content. the content is what made TAS.


Bashing TAS will not change the iconic impact of that show and how that shows is defining the whole debate of a disney xmen movie. TAS may not have aged well for some that want a Disney xmen movie because the more people watch TAS the more they see how even X-Men cartons dealt with adult content and was taken very seriously and since mcu movies don’t really do that. Xmen in the MCU makes no sense.

forgive any typos...this is me rushing to work.

[RLAAMJR.]

Xmen TAS is the biggest cartoon series ever. It was popular worldwide. So please dont push that it was the simpsons because the simpsons was not even a hit in the Philippines

[Jaddor]

mcu can go and tell origins of individual x-men which are more interesting than prequel trilogy.

not possible. since none of the mcu movies was as interesting as first class and dofp.

fun, jokes, cgi and funny does not make for an interesting xmen movie.

how would mcu make an interesting movie when disney will have to ignore the entire content of the x-men source material.

[Xelossik]

how would mcu make an interesting movie when disney will have to ignore the entire content of the x-men source material.

You made an assumption about mcu. Maybe this would be true maybe not.
but Fox already did this. Marvel will maybe do something like this.

and personal story of Rogue, Storm, Cyclops would be better than even dofp
why? because personal stories are better and more popular.

Apocalypse proved that X-men needs to enter 21 century. They are in terrible spot.

[Baron of Faltine]

Xmen TAS is the biggest cartoon series ever. It was popular worldwide. So please dont push that it was the simpsons because the simpsons was not even a hit in the Philippines

Uhmm Xmen TAS WAS NOT that widely world popular. It was good and all, but in italy was just a blip, expecially compared to Batman or Gargoyles. I always found this fascination you americans have with that particular show...weird.
But again media consumption till the release of the first iphone was very different between USA and the rest of the world (an example in italy comic book shop were and still are rare, because mainstream comic are distributed to newsdealer's-hope the name is correct- shops. I started reading marvel comic this way. And even the. Most lost in wood area location has a newsdealer that had some comic t least spiderman batman and yes x-men)

[ClanAskani]

stan lee was still a pop culture solider then, it is not like now. but it does not matter, what matters is people stood their grounds on the series and wanted to keep all the adult content of xmen in tas. that cannot happen in todays under marvel. please just look at how their cartoons and movies are so awful compared to TAS or the xmen movies. they are awful for the same reasons tas would ave been awful if the watchdog groups have won.

Stan was far more involved in Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends and its X-Men pilot episode which was entirely for very young kids. He was fine with making it for young kids as long as it was produced. Stan did a fantastic job selling Marvel comic properties to tv networks. He was a salesman.

The only reason X-Men: TAS was more mature was that there was evidence that an older audience would watch cartoons and the head of Fox Kids was making that decision. But also they were basing it on the comics which were proven to be successful.

Today, many of the Marvel cartoons are being aimed at a younger audience. They could do a more mature series, but there isn't the incentive. Wolverine & The X-Men aired on Nick/Nicktoons and was written by Kyle & Yost who certainly could write something for an older audience if they wanted to. But animated series are seen as a gateway to Marvel characters for 5 year olds. Disney buying Fox isn't going to change that. Nick only cares about their core demographics of Kids 2-11 and Kids 6-11. Legend of Korra was killed by the fact that not enough 5 year olds watched it. When it went online, the ads were all for McDonalds Happy Meals and PG rated movies and the show was being watched by college students.

Watchdog groups aren't killing more mature shows. For example, the deaths in Legend of Korra's season 3 didn't result in Nick pulling it. The ratings were too low for kids 2-11 so it was pulled from the air. Kids programming directors want programming that appeals to their demographics and tend to skew lower since superheroes are so popular with preschoolers. Shows for teens tend to be something with broader appeal that's live action.

With kids programming there's always this fight between trusting creators to do what they think will work and essentially trusting test marketing with the target market. There's a superhero-ish cartoon (that I won't name) that I feel very bad for the creators on that aired on one of the well-known kids network that execs completely overhauled the show based on the feedback of about 20 four to six year old little boys who were barely watching some test footage.

What X-Men TAS and Batman TAS proved was that comics are a goldmine of very well-written material that's already been test marketed and that comic readers are valid litmus test for stories and characters that can also appeal to a much broader audience.

Here's a snippet of an interview with Margaret Loesch:

BFTP: Do you attribute the recent success in the Marvel movie franchise to what Fox Kids did in the 1990’s with its superhero cartoon series?

Margaret Loesch: Absolutely. I could actually be more specific: I was the one who said to the Fox Feature Group that they had to do an X-Men movie. I originally tried to get them to do a primetime cartoon series, but things didn’t work out. We tried airing a few episodes in primetime but it didn’t do great in the ratings. You can’t just stick a Saturday morning episode in primetime and expect it to do well without being able to raise the bar a little bit production-wise. More importantly, you can’t succeed without promoting it a lot. Nevertheless, I did take the product to the Feature Division and the rest, as they say, is history.

The same thing happened with Spider-Man. It was originally going to be at Fox because James Cameron had wanted to do it since he loved the story. I happened to sit on an airplane with him and he talked about how he was going to do the origin story. But when he got so involved with Titanic, the rights somehow went to Sony. Yes, I think Fox Kids definitely was the impetus for the whole comic book revolution since we dramatically raised the whole awareness of the Marvel characters.

http://www.blastfromthepasttv.com/mloeschinterview.html

[Divine Spark]

Xmen TAS is the biggest cartoon series ever. It was popular worldwide. So please dont push that it was the simpsons because the simpsons was not even a hit in the Philippines

I think calling it the biggest is bit too far. I think that belongs to the Batman animated series. It won awards and spawned the DCAU that far outlasted the 90s MAU.

[MarvelMaster616]

I don't know if this is related, but a recent rumor came out that the X-men and Dr. Doom are going to added to Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite. It was a fairly major oversight when this game came out, having no mention of the X-men or the F4. Considering how Capcom and Marvel's relationship began with Street Fighter vs. X-men, it was a popular topic of conversation among The Complex. But we've seen in recent times that the X-men are no longer being marginalized or subverted by the Inhumans. Could the X-men's gradual return to prominence be part of these ongoing negotiations? Is the fact that the X-men are showing up in more media a sign that this deal could be imminent? It's hard to say, but I think it's a good sign overall that Marvel is bringing the X-men back to the forefront.

[Jaddor]

Xmen TAS is the biggest cartoon series ever. It was popular worldwide. So please dont push that it was the simpsons because the simpsons was not even a hit in the Philippines

I think this is not even debate with TAS the only cartoon that can match and arguably surpass TAS was batman TAS,anyone trying to water down or dimiss TAS just so xmen can look well with disney is destined to fail.