View Poll Results: How do you feel about Dick's time as Robin?

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  • His time as Robin is an embarrassment and I'd be glad to see it go away forever.

    1 0.94%
  • Meh. I'm a fan of Nightwing. Don't hate his time as Robin, but wouldn't be sorry to see it go.

    5 4.72%
  • Dick's time as Robin does matter, but I would still love the character without it.

    5 4.72%
  • NO! Dick's time as Robin is SACROSANCT and must NEVER be removed or minimized!

    95 89.62%
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  1. #61
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    He is the blueprint

  2. #62
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    Despite how he is treated by DC, he is one of the half-dozen most important characters in comics ( as the original kid sidekick), and properly one of the DC “Trinity”: Superman,Wonder Woman, Batman and Robin.

  3. #63
    Fantastic Member Rufio's Avatar
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    Thinking about that makes me sad.

    I would like it if DC never does away with Dick’s time as Robin. Though he wasn’t Robin while I was growing up, he was my first Robin. I think the character and the legacy he left behind in that role can’t be understated. He wasn’t just Robin, he was THE Robin and his influence as such has defined the role for his successors.
    “Fleeing through the labyrinths with the hordes of the living dead fast upon them;
    Once again they found themselves trapped in front of the abyss.”

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I'm much more attached to him as Nightwing but his time as Robin was just too iconic and too important to simply "do away with". It's a part of him. And it always should be.

  5. #65
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    I couldn't care about Robin much less in general, and I couldn't care much less about Dick Grayson also in general either. I don't read Batman stories or watch Batman movies for the plucky sidekick.

  6. #66
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    I think it is pretty important for the character that he was Robin, but I also think that the later Robins had usually better stories than he had.

  7. #67
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    Ask anyone with a passing knowledge of superheroes (or pop culture in general) what's Batman's real name and they'll answer ''Bruce Wayne''. Ask them Superman's real name and they'll answer ''Clark Kent''.

    Ask them Robin's real name and there's a pretty good chance they'll have an answer, and 90% of the time its gonna be ''Dick Grayson''.

    Dick Grayson IS Robin and Robin IS Dick Grayson in the popular consciousness. Most people on the planet who know the name ''Dick Grayson'' associate it with Robin and many would never even have heard about Nightwing!

    Frankly, I don't think the debate is about the importance of Robin to Dick Grayson and vice versa. I think the debate is more about the relevance of Robin to the Batman mythos in general. There was a time when Batman and Robin were virtually inseperable in the comics. That started to decline in the early 70's, really started to decline in the late 80's, and seriously took a plummet down to almost non-existence over the last 15 years or so. Today, the Joker is arguably a more iconic and popular part of the mythos than Robin is. No live-action adaptation for the last nearly 25 years has shown us the Batman and Robin team (the closest they've come to sharing screen-space in all that time is Bruce looking at the dead Robin's vandalized suit in BvS). Robin as a character is still around in the comics of course, but not so much as Batman's partner anymore but more as a member of the Bat-family. On the Titans/Young Justice groups, a Robin basically serves as the resident Batman-lite character.

    We haven't really had a ''classic'' take on Robin for the last 15 years. Damian is more of a new concept of his own - Batman's biological son as a darker, edgier Robin. Dick of course is firmly Nightwing and his Robin days haven't been focused on much since the New 52. Jason is now firmly Red Hood and is famous for being the ''Robin who died''. Tim was the 'new' Dick and the more ''classic'' Robin, but now he's effectively been sidelined - and I'm not even sure he goes by the name Robin anymore.

    So yeah, I think the real question is how important Robin is to the Batman mythos these days...

  8. #68
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Ask anyone with a passing knowledge of superheroes (or pop culture in general) what's Batman's real name and they'll answer ''Bruce Wayne''. Ask them Superman's real name and they'll answer ''Clark Kent''.

    Ask them Robin's real name and there's a pretty good chance they'll have an answer, and 90% of the time its gonna be ''Dick Grayson''.

    Dick Grayson IS Robin and Robin IS Dick Grayson in the popular consciousness. Most people on the planet who know the name ''Dick Grayson'' associate it with Robin and many would never even have heard about Nightwing!

    Frankly, I don't think the debate is about the importance of Robin to Dick Grayson and vice versa. I think the debate is more about the relevance of Robin to the Batman mythos in general. There was a time when Batman and Robin were virtually inseperable in the comics. That started to decline in the early 70's, really started to decline in the late 80's, and seriously took a plummet down to almost non-existence over the last 15 years or so. Today, the Joker is arguably a more iconic and popular part of the mythos than Robin is. No live-action adaptation for the last nearly 25 years has shown us the Batman and Robin team (the closest they've come to sharing screen-space in all that time is Bruce looking at the dead Robin's vandalized suit in BvS). Robin as a character is still around in the comics of course, but not so much as Batman's partner anymore but more as a member of the Bat-family. On the Titans/Young Justice groups, a Robin basically serves as the resident Batman-lite character.

    We haven't really had a ''classic'' take on Robin for the last 15 years. Damian is more of a new concept of his own - Batman's biological son as a darker, edgier Robin. Dick of course is firmly Nightwing and his Robin days haven't been focused on much since the New 52. Jason is now firmly Red Hood and is famous for being the ''Robin who died''. Tim was the 'new' Dick and the more ''classic'' Robin, but now he's effectively been sidelined - and I'm not even sure he goes by the name Robin anymore.

    So yeah, I think the real question is how important Robin is to the Batman mythos these days...
    Batman and Robin was 24 years ago (1997), so there was one live-action adaptation of that in the past 25 years...

  9. #69
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Ask anyone with a passing knowledge of superheroes (or pop culture in general) what's Batman's real name and they'll answer ''Bruce Wayne''. Ask them Superman's real name and they'll answer ''Clark Kent''.

    Ask them Robin's real name and there's a pretty good chance they'll have an answer, and 90% of the time its gonna be ''Dick Grayson''.

    Dick Grayson IS Robin and Robin IS Dick Grayson in the popular consciousness. Most people on the planet who know the name ''Dick Grayson'' associate it with Robin and many would never even have heard about Nightwing!

    Frankly, I don't think the debate is about the importance of Robin to Dick Grayson and vice versa. I think the debate is more about the relevance of Robin to the Batman mythos in general. There was a time when Batman and Robin were virtually inseperable in the comics. That started to decline in the early 70's, really started to decline in the late 80's, and seriously took a plummet down to almost non-existence over the last 15 years or so. Today, the Joker is arguably a more iconic and popular part of the mythos than Robin is. No live-action adaptation for the last nearly 25 years has shown us the Batman and Robin team (the closest they've come to sharing screen-space in all that time is Bruce looking at the dead Robin's vandalized suit in BvS). Robin as a character is still around in the comics of course, but not so much as Batman's partner anymore but more as a member of the Bat-family. On the Titans/Young Justice groups, a Robin basically serves as the resident Batman-lite character.

    We haven't really had a ''classic'' take on Robin for the last 15 years. Damian is more of a new concept of his own - Batman's biological son as a darker, edgier Robin. Dick of course is firmly Nightwing and his Robin days haven't been focused on much since the New 52. Jason is now firmly Red Hood and is famous for being the ''Robin who died''. Tim was the 'new' Dick and the more ''classic'' Robin, but now he's effectively been sidelined - and I'm not even sure he goes by the name Robin anymore.

    So yeah, I think the real question is how important Robin is to the Batman mythos these days...
    Robin is still relevant to the Batman myth however DC broke up the dynamic duo in the 90's. Putting great effort and resources into making Robin a solo hero with his own title and responsibilities beyond Batman.

    The character became less of a partner to Batman.

    Jason was the last Robin who was 100% Batman's partner and the last Robin to regularly feature as a regular in the the main Batman title.

    Tim currently is wearing the Robin costume though I'm unclear what his title is.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Batman and Robin was 24 years ago (1997), so there was one live-action adaptation of that in the past 25 years...
    Yeah, that's why I said nearly 25 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Robin is still relevant to the Batman myth however DC broke up the dynamic duo in the 90's. Putting great effort and resources into making Robin a solo hero with his own title and responsibilities beyond Batman.

    The character became less of a partner to Batman.

    Jason was the last Robin who was 100% Batman's partner and the last Robin to regularly feature as a regular in the the main Batman title.

    Tim currently is wearing the Robin costume though I'm unclear what his title is.
    True.

    ''Batman and Robin'' hasn't really been a concept in the comics, in its classic sense, since the 90's as you put it. Though I'd argue that Tim, although he was a solo character, was still somewhat in the Dick Grayson mold of being a sidekick/partner to Batman at times. But for the most part, both of them were solo..

    The Dynamic Duo concept was reinvented by Morrison with Damian as Robin and Dick as Batman, but that was a new unique twist on the classic idea (the high-concept was ''Robin became Batman, and the original Batman's son became Robin''.) And when Bruce came back and Damian stayed Robin it was more about Batman's son (who's also heir to a supervillain) being Robin alongside him. So the 'classic' Dynamic Duo concept that once was the bedrock of the franchise was now pretty non-existent, and only alluded to at best.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    ''Batman and Robin'' hasn't really been a concept in the comics, in its classic sense, since the 90's as you put it. Though I'd argue that Tim, although he was a solo character, was still somewhat in the Dick Grayson mold of being a sidekick/partner to Batman at times. But for the most part, both of them were solo.
    Actually not really since the 70's (or late 60's), they broke it up when Dick went to collage.

    There was a short revival in the 80s with Jason and Tim (till he got a solo book), but even than there were many solo batman stories. I think only pre-COIE Jason was in most of the Batman stories during his time as Robin.
    Post-COIE and Tim in his "pre solo phase" were maybe in roughly half of the stories.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Actually not really since the 70's (or late 60's), they broke it up when Dick went to collage.

    There was a short revival in the 80s with Jason and Tim (till he got a solo book), but even than there were many solo batman stories. I think only pre-COIE Jason was in most of the Batman stories during his time as Robin.
    Post-COIE and Tim in his "pre solo phase" were maybe in roughly half of the stories.
    Yeah, it was a gradual thing over time, but I feel the concept still lingered on into the 90's.

    From 1940 till 1969, Batman and Robin were inseparable. Outside of, say, the JLA, I think you'd find very few stories through all those decades where Batman was without Robin.

    Then Dick went off to college in the 70's and Batman was a solo character in his own stories. Though Dick still showed up on and off, and the idea of a ''Batman and Robin'' partnership was still present, albeit no longer a constant. This is the era that BTAS was based off, and is my ideal in many ways for the Dynamic Duo.

    When Jason first showed up in the early 80's, ''Batman and Robin'' became a semi-regular fixture in the comics again. Until his death in 1989. That was also the year we saw Burton's Batman movie, with a solo Batman (early iterations of the script included Robin...just remember how unprecedented the idea of Batman without Robin would have been back then in the wider pop-cultural consciousness ) and the launch of LOTDK, which I believe was touted as the first ongoing series with a solo Batman since 1940.

    After that, once Tim became Robin, you had the option for a classic ''Batman and Robin'' team back on the table, but as you've said, Tim became more of a solo character, and that was pretty much the end of the Dynamic Duo as a going concern.

    I still feel that in other media, '''Batman and Robin'' were still a thing. TAS featured Robin, at first occasionally and then more regularly. We had the Schumacher films, which seem to have scared off anyone else from putting the Dynamic Duo in live action again. And the 2004 The Batman cartoon eventually gave us Robin. But I think once the Nolanverse got started and made it a point to exclude Robin, the idea reached a new level of irrelevance.

  13. #73
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Don't forget, the 1960's TV show is constantly in reruns on various cable stations.

    It even spawned that Batman '66 digital-first comic book series.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Don't forget, the 1960's TV show is constantly in reruns on various cable stations.

    It even spawned that Batman '66 digital-first comic book series.
    Yeah, the revived popularity of the Adam West show is now one of the few remaining 'bastions' of the classic Dynamic Duo!

  15. #75
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Yeah, it was a gradual thing over time, but I feel the concept still lingered on into the 90's.

    From 1940 till 1969, Batman and Robin were inseparable. Outside of, say, the JLA, I think you'd find very few stories through all those decades where Batman was without Robin.

    Then Dick went off to college in the 70's and Batman was a solo character in his own stories. Though Dick still showed up on and off, and the idea of a ''Batman and Robin'' partnership was still present, albeit no longer a constant. This is the era that BTAS was based off, and is my ideal in many ways for the Dynamic Duo.

    When Jason first showed up in the early 80's, ''Batman and Robin'' became a semi-regular fixture in the comics again. Until his death in 1989. That was also the year we saw Burton's Batman movie, with a solo Batman (early iterations of the script included Robin...just remember how unprecedented the idea of Batman without Robin would have been back then in the wider pop-cultural consciousness ) and the launch of LOTDK, which I believe was touted as the first ongoing series with a solo Batman since 1940.

    After that, once Tim became Robin, you had the option for a classic ''Batman and Robin'' team back on the table, but as you've said, Tim became more of a solo character, and that was pretty much the end of the Dynamic Duo as a going concern.

    I still feel that in other media, '''Batman and Robin'' were still a thing. TAS featured Robin, at first occasionally and then more regularly. We had the Schumacher films, which seem to have scared off anyone else from putting the Dynamic Duo in live action again. And the 2004 The Batman cartoon eventually gave us Robin. But I think once the Nolanverse got started and made it a point to exclude Robin, the idea reached a new level of irrelevance.
    Creators and DC themselves felt Robin didn't reflect well on Batman/felt he didn't fit the darker world of Batman since O'neil. Burton fought really hard against WB to exclude Robin from his movies.

    O'neil supported getting rid of Jason finally deciding to follow through after noting the lack of fan negativity after Miller's TDKR introduced a dead Robin.

    The decision to end the Robin legacy was walked back due to profits rather than story.

    The concept of Robin is problematic esp after Jason. Snyder went on record calling it irresponsible and something Batman would never do. I feel like this is a feeling that's shared by quite a few.

    In today's world Batman still employing non powered minors after losing one doesn't make him look very smart or caring.

    This is another reason why Dick's tenure as Robin is so critical. Dick is the only successful and positive Robin.

    A young life saved by Batman through Robin. Jason died, Tim was living a 'normal' safe life away from the violence of crime fighting. Steph died.
    Damian was saved, redeemed and the world made safer by him becoming Robin but he's still a work in progress and even Damian also died.

    Robin is iconic as batman's sidekick but that's more pop culture these days.

    The general audience are used to seeing batman without Robin or only seeing Robin with TT, Titans, YJ.

    To the newest generation of fans, Robin is Batman's sidekick who is a part of TT since TTGO is likely their 1st introduction to him
    Last edited by CPSparkles; 04-14-2021 at 10:17 AM.

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