illmunati

[fantastic]

If it had been explicitly voluntary and with guarantees, or at least checks and balances, that it wouldn't be abused, then it would've been a good idea. However, the chances of the SHRA not being inevitably abused went out the window with the first issue of Civil War when Maria Hill ordered Captain America arrested for merely raising his objections to the idea of a law that would require him to throw his comrades under the proverbial bus and treat them like criminals when they'd spent years saving lives, protecting the innocent, and fighting evil side by side, not to mention his valid concerns that amoral politicians with amoral agendas rooted in greed and power lust would co-opt them all to serve said agendas.

There was no hope left for compromise when the push for the SHRA was spearheaded and enforced by someone who thought that objecting to a law without said law actually being passed yet or necessarily expressing intent to violate it was reasonable grounds for preemptive detention. Frankly, though, I thought Cap should've just went public with what Hill tried to do to him and thus forced her and anyone supporting or siding with her to explain themselves and justify those actions to the media and the people. That would've resulted in support for the SHRA, with heavy-handed tactics like that being used, being seriously questioned and even lessened, and without going renegade and giving the pro-registration forces an excuse for what they did later.

of course humans will not support cap side.

[Huntsman Spider]

of course humans will not support cap side.

Hmm, that depends. Will humans of the Marvel Universe, who are generally a bunch of ungrateful s***s, support Captain America's side? Not really. Will more enlightened people or individuals that understand a thing or two about civil/human rights, namely that superpowers do not automatically strip someone of said rights, at least consider that they could be supporting someone acting like a jackbooted storm trooper to enforce a law that may be unconstitutional or at least dangerously legally dubious? Probably, but maybe I'm putting too much stock in the idea that Marvel writers can write characters behaving reasonably and not arbitrarily.

[fantastic]

Hmm, that depends. Will humans of the Marvel Universe, who are generally a bunch of ungrateful s***s, support Captain America's side? Not really. Will more enlightened people or individuals that understand a thing or two about civil/human rights, namely that superpowers do not automatically strip someone of said rights, at least consider that they could be supporting someone acting like a jackbooted storm trooper to enforce a law that may be unconstitutional or at least dangerously legally dubious? Probably, but maybe I'm putting too much stock in the idea that Marvel writers can write characters behaving reasonably and not arbitrarily.

lets say they support cap side.illmunati can create a fake superhero who murders people will they support cap side or not.

[fantastic]

Hmm, that depends. Will humans of the Marvel Universe, who are generally a bunch of ungrateful s***s, support Captain America's side? Not really. Will more enlightened people or individuals that understand a thing or two about civil/human rights, namely that superpowers do not automatically strip someone of said rights, at least consider that they could be supporting someone acting like a jackbooted storm trooper to enforce a law that may be unconstitutional or at least dangerously legally dubious? Probably, but maybe I'm putting too much stock in the idea that Marvel writers can write characters behaving reasonably and not arbitrarily.

lets say they support cap side.illmunati can create a fake superhero who murders people to change public opinion.

[Tiamatty]

Despite the fact that Namor is half blue, Black Panther isn't white, and calling Black Bolt white is kind of immaterial for a guy who's entire species isn't part of humanity.

Black Panther wasn't part of the original Illuminati. Namor and Black Bolt are both white. The original Illuminati was a bunch of rich white dudes deciding they were best-suited to unilaterally make huge decisions that would affect the world, and whose arrogance resulted in huge mistakes that screwed over a whole lot of regular people. Just like in the real world.

I really can't believe that that wasn't precisely what Bendis was going for. It had to be, right? It is just too perfect a parallel not to be intentional.

[fantastic]

Black Panther wasn't part of the original Illuminati. Namor and Black Bolt are both white. The original Illuminati was a bunch of rich white dudes deciding they were best-suited to unilaterally make huge decisions that would affect the world, and whose arrogance resulted in huge mistakes that screwed over a whole lot of regular people. Just like in the real world.

I really can't believe that that wasn't precisely what Bendis was going for. It had to be, right? It is just too perfect a parallel not to be intentional.

no it was not intentional.

[jackolover]

They were a bunch of rich white guys who were convinced they knew what was best for the whole world, and who screwed up on a huge scale, in ways that screwed over countless regular people.

Of course they didn't face any real punishment for it.

I maintain that the Illuminati is a fantastic metaphor for how the real world works.

There was that whole “Time Runs Out” Thing where the Illuminati were hunted as outlaws.

[jackolover]

he promised he will not create traps, clones.he will not do any villainous acts.(hahaha)
Blatant Lies .

Reed certainly removed himself from temptation, because he doesn’t exist now in ANAD, so he isn’t going to do any of those things.

[Tiamatty]

There was that whole “Time Runs Out” Thing where the Illuminati were hunted as outlaws.

Which was a completely different story, not at all related to what I was talking about.

[jackolover]

Hmm, that depends. Will humans of the Marvel Universe, who are generally a bunch of ungrateful s***s, support Captain America's side? Not really. Will more enlightened people or individuals that understand a thing or two about civil/human rights, namely that superpowers do not automatically strip someone of said rights, at least consider that they could be supporting someone acting like a jackbooted storm trooper to enforce a law that may be unconstitutional or at least dangerously legally dubious? Probably, but maybe I'm putting too much stock in the idea that Marvel writers can write characters behaving reasonably and not arbitrarily.

One of the similarities to the SHRA laws is the time after 9/11 when Homeland Security laws came in. There was such a emotional element to HS laws, that nobody could have defended civil/human rights, and not been vilified. I think we were supposed to think the emotional element supporting the SHRA was too strong in the community that it overwhelmed everyone to support it?

[jackolover]

Which was a completely different story, not at all related to what I was talking about.

I was commenting on the statement the Illuminati didn’t get punished. But I agree with your post.

[davew128]

The poster was referring to the original, pre-Civil War Illuminati, which T'Challa was actually smart enough to know would end in disaster and not join.

Yet Namor was still half Atlantean (blue), and traditional rich white guy stuff doesn't mean much in Attilan with Black Bolt and the Royal Family.

Got no explanation for why he joined the second version in Jonathan Hickman's Avengers run.

It was stated up front, he called them together as the best chance in his opinion of dealing with the threat.

[davew128]

so if they had cast Black Bolt with a non-white actor, it would have been; right?

I don't watch the Inhumans show because, well, never been a fan of them. The issue here is saying that Black Bolt is part of the rich white guys club. The problem with that comment is that Black Bolt is white by skin color and rich by virtue of being a king, little of which matters as such in Inhuman society and certainly until recently they had by choice little interaction with human society. It just doesn't mean the same thing with him as it would Stark, Xavier, Strange, and Richards.

[Tiamatty]

I don't watch the Inhumans show because, well, never been a fan of them. The issue here is saying that Black Bolt is part of the rich white guys club. The problem with that comment is that Black Bolt is white by skin color and rich by virtue of being a king, little of which matters as such in Inhuman society and certainly until recently they had by choice little interaction with human society. It just doesn't mean the same thing with him as it would Stark, Xavier, Strange, and Richards.

Black Bolt's white. He's a rich, handsome white man. He is a king who literally maintained a slave caste until a revolt forced him to abolish the system. At which point he did precisely jack shit to actually improve living conditions for the freed slaves. He is walking privilege.

The guy definitely fit in with the likes of Stark and Xavier. A rich white guy who decided that he and his rich white guy friends could save the world by completely ignoring the opinions of anyone who wasn't a rich white guy.

Screw the original Illuminati. They asked one black guy, and that black guy told them to screw off because he recognized they were arrogant assholes.

You think Black Bolt's not white? Well he sure as hell isn't black.

[davew128]

Black Bolt's white. He's a rich, handsome white man. He is a king who literally maintained a slave caste until a revolt forced him to abolish the system. At which point he did precisely jack shit to actually improve living conditions for the freed slaves. He is walking privilege.

The guy definitely fit in with the likes of Stark and Xavier. A rich white guy who decided that he and his rich white guy friends could save the world by completely ignoring the opinions of anyone who wasn't a rich white guy.

Screw the original Illuminati. They asked one black guy, and that black guy told them to screw off because he recognized they were arrogant assholes.

You think Black Bolt's not white? Well he sure as hell isn't black.

Let me use smaller words you might have better luck comprehending. Black Bolt is Inhuman. He is not human. His people did not until recently engage in relations with human society. AT ALL. They moved Attilan to the far side of the moon to stay away from humanity. Skin color in the Inhuman community is also not terribly significant. It just isn't. He is the monarch of a group that for all intents and purposes may as well be from another planet, and in the galactic community, is sort of treated as such. Say what you will about him, but Earth human societal norms don't apply to him or his family.