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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    The issue though is that really no one thinks, "Oh, OJ was found not guilty by a court of his peers so didn't knife his ex-wife." Yet, we are essentially being told by objectors that this is how we should treat women who raise claims of sexual harassment, that their claims need to be treated with a layer of extra caution and need to be verified by a judge and jury. I can say Henry Kissinger is a war criminal and Bill Cosby is a rapist, with or without some court decision.
    The difference is that in OJ's case there was a mountain of evidence that was presented to the public. Whereas these all come under a "he said, she said" and it's very easy to say something happened and it's just as easy to say it didn't. And when that is the case, it is slippery slope to auto condemn the accused based off a he said she said. That's why rape and sexual assault has been such a grey area in the court system because it ultimately devolves to each side slandering each other's character and looking for reasons to discredit the other.

    Cosby and Weinstein are outliers where you have so many people independently saying the exact same thing that it's hard to envision conspiracy scenario. That said, I'm not so sure if you went through every single accusation against them that they'd all hold up. But in other people in one off instances, again it's a grey area.

    And we know that false sexual assault and rape accusations actually happen. So it's difficult in every single instance to take a he said she said and ere on the side of the accused and completely trash someone's career and reputation in the interests of remaining sensitive to a potential victim. Again it's an incredibly difficult area in law.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    How much worth does the apology have when it's this late?
    Depends. It's entirely possible that years later Louis CK changed and when he apologized to them privately it was more authentic than it would have been if he just did it to cover for himself back in the day. I think in that case it depends on the circumstance entirely. Not that it necessarily matters because he's admitting to it so we know he did commit the offenses and he shouldn't be off the hook

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    I've just become a lot bigger fan of Wonder Woman than I was a few minutes ago.

    Gal Gadot will only be ‘Wonder Woman’ again if Brett Ratner is out
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  4. #49
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    I've just become a lot bigger fan of Wonder Woman than I was a few minutes ago.

    Gal Gadot will only be ‘Wonder Woman’ again if Brett Ratner is out
    You became a bigger fan of Gal Gadot, not Wonder Woman.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    You became a bigger fan of Gal Gadot, not Wonder Woman.
    Whatever you say. You know best, I suppose.
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member AndrewCrossett's Avatar
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    I'm good with anything that makes Brett Ratner not make movies.

  7. #52
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    I'm good with anything that makes Brett Ratner not make movies.
    I think of him as Uwe Boll with better publicity and bigger budgets. Although perhaps not anymore as far as better publicity goes.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    The "Majority Rule" episode of THE ORVILLE has me thinking about the apology tour. It seems like it's not the actual crimes (most of which have not been legally proven as yet in a lot of these cases) but it's the apology that's being judged. Because Kevin Spacey made a bad apology--even before a lot of the allegations had come out--he was immediately denounced from all sides. I wonder, had he sought better advice and made his apology in a different way, would he have better positioned himself to ride out this storm?

    Whereas, I look at the current apology tour from Louis CK and he seems to have gotten ahead of the story, by admitting to everything and formulating an abject apology. So maybe in the future, CK will gain absolution from the pop culture nabobs more readily than Spacey.

    But it shouldn't be about which apology tour is the best. People should be judged on the actual crimes they committed, not on whether they did a good job handling the PR blow-back.
    But in this case, CK vs Spacey, what Spacey did was worse. So they are being judged on the 'actual crime.'

  9. #54
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    Rebel Wilson claims a male star sexually harassed her while his friends tried to tape it

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    Well, the guy that did the Elmo voice was fired cause he was messing with kids so this kinda happen already.
    The first person who accused him was found to be lying. A couple of other guys tried to file suits against him but the cases were thrown out, I think due to statute of limitations.

    He basically resigned because Sesame Street didn't want this kind of controversy connected with their show.

  11. #56
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    Nous t'accusions.

    Bollywood actresses are now making accusations about sexual harassment.

  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    how was she outed if she didnt even know?
    Do you recall the wave of "It Gets Better" videos a few years back? This is exactly the thing that those videos tried to address. It's quite common for teens to be confused of their sexuality -- hell, if you're 16 or 65, one can still be confused and still trying to figure it out (for example, the WWE's Pat Patterson didn't come out until he was 77, and was still trying to figure out his attractions decades after he retired from wrestling). You could think you're gay as a teenager and then come out of it being 100% straight, or vice versa, but in those internal struggles, there's a lot of uncertainty. Only you can decide how to process it.

    The "It Gets Better" videos were trying to tell queer teens that it's okay to be queer, that teens who were questioning themselves have every right to self-determination, and that whether they were gay, straight, or anything else, that it would get better for them once they figure things out on their own terms.

    What Ratner did was remove that from her. If she were straight, that type of pressure is extremely hurtful -- but as a lesbian, it hurts even further because then you're further isolated. And this sort of thing would happen in high schools, workplaces, and countless Thanksgiving dinners. Schools create Gay-Straight Alliance student groups precisely because of that sort of thing. Whether she knew at the time of her sexuality or not, Ratner was incredibly abusive in forcing the issue. That's up to Page and Page alone, regardless of her sexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    Many of these accusations, perhaps most of them, may be true. But in most cases there's no way to tell the ones that are from the ones that aren't. If we just assume that everyone being accused is guilty, that opens the door for bad people to take advantage. There's nothing worse than scammers and publicity hounds who hide amongst real victims... but many of these accusations are from 30 years ago or more, and there is no evidence other than someone's say-so.

    Not every man in Hollywood can be a rapist.
    While not every man in Hollywood can be a rapist (and kudos to the male actors calling out their shitty colleagues and supporting women AND men who've been assaulted), it points to an unfortunate truth: it's primarily women who are *not* surprised by these new daily accusations, because rape culture is so rampant in society anyway that they're instantly suspicious of any man they come across in reality. At the office, the grocery store, the laundromat, etc. The best they can do is hope for the best, and the impetus is on men not to catcall or stare them down or just generally be an asshole. And then, it's not fair to say women are at fault for assuming guilt first, because we simply don't know how many of them have really been assaulted -- we don't now about each other's personal lives, after all, and most cases of assault are still vastly underreported to this day. Assuming guilt for them is a defense mechanism honed by rape culture. It's up to men in society like us to earn their trust, but more broadly to dismantle that culture by calling out the shitty jokes and treatment we see our male friends do that perpetuate it.

    Every time a new figure is accused in the public, it reopens wounds of pretty much every one who had been assaulted or raped and just happened to be reading the paper or website that time. This is why rape and assault charges aren't to be taken likely, because it takes shit ton of effort and pain to make them in the first place. And those who don't report it are trying to spare themselves that pain as well. If, for every 20 cases of assault and rape, someone says, "Yeah, but what about that one time with Fatty Arbuckle" or something like that, look at the reasoning why that's being brought up, and what that person is trying to preserve, exactly. Yes, there could be a scammer out there hurling false accusations, but that happens so infinitesimally infrequently compared to actual cases with mountains of evidence (and worse yet, that the truly guilty get off with a slap on the wrist or a paid vacation), that it's almost statistically dishonest to start off with skepticism of the accuser whenever a new accusation comes out.

    W. Kamau Bell probably put it best for us men. It's not on women to presume innocent until guilty, it's on men to change the entire culture that allows the guilty to keep repeating and encouraging terrible behavior that's so widespread. If society changes, there'd be much less of a need for women to be on guard, and then as a side effect much less worry about men being falsely accused, because then rape, assault, and accusations wouldn't be so commonplace. Stopping rape culture benefits men and women alike. After a certain point, "Innocent until proven guilty" is a luxury, and men ruined that when it comes to sexual harassment. Women do it too, but men do it in far greater numbers and far longer, with many women doing it because they learned it from men and men in power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    Nope. This shit came out years ago and he refused to talk about it. For. Years.
    Yep. I live in Chicago, and we've a huge comedy and improv hub. Tons of comedy stars past, present, and future hang out here. But over the weekend I found out that a longtime improviser and her friends were also assaulted by Louis CK years ago. His fame and the fact that Chicago's comedy scene is so close knit really shielded him and prevented those women from getting the support they kept asking for from their circles. Precisely the same thing that he mentioned in his statement. They weren't the women named in the statement, but it certainly showed a pattern.

    They have nothing to gain by just blithely name dropping him. They're not using this for blackmail or to get more parts. They're not even sharing their names. But it goes to show how rampant this sort of thing is, for the powerful to assault those without power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsubou View Post
    If i had a dollar every time an actor is accused of sexual harassment, I'd be a millionaire at the end of the year.
    On the other hand, if those actors don't know the difference between flirting and assault, they're doing it wrong. The universal secret to flirting is simple: don't be an asshole.

    Like, seriously, there's a difference between "he said/she said" accusations, and ambushing women into a corner and jacking off in front of them.
    Last edited by Cyke; 11-13-2017 at 01:46 PM.

  13. #58
    Incredible Member Robotech Master's Avatar
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    Huh, now I'm hearing that the Gal Gadot stuff didn't happen and was reported to be a part of the hype; apparently no talks happened between her and WB, and Ratner's involvement in the WW films isn't at a producer level at all, and not enough to be worth such a boycott. And now the release of the WW sequel has been moved up a month earlier.

  14. #59
    Ceiling Belkar stabs you GozertheGozarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotech Master View Post
    Huh, now I'm hearing that the Gal Gadot stuff didn't happen and was reported to be a part of the hype; apparently no talks happened between her and WB, and Ratner's involvement in the WW films isn't at a producer level at all, and not enough to be worth such a boycott. And now the release of the WW sequel has been moved up a month earlier.
    Ratner is co-owner of the production studio.
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  15. #60
    Incredible Member Robotech Master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GozertheGozarian View Post
    Ratner is co-owner of the production studio.
    Wonder Woman had 7 Production Studios. The co-production with Atlas Entertainment, Cruel and Unusual Films, DC Entertainment, Tencent Pictures, etc. puts them really low on the involvement pole, to the point of being pretty much a small funding source. And their deal with WB to be a funding source is already ending soon. WB apparently denies any such talk has occurred, and the original appearance of this news apparently cited "unnamed sources."

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