JUSTICE LEAGUE early reactions - so far, so GOOD!

[Jokerz79]

Wonder Woman is still my favorite DCEU film with Justice League now at 2nd but I still liked Dr. Strange more than both I really enjoyed it.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Ok, since I started the thread, I guess I should chime in now that I've seen the movie.

It was good, not great, but absolutely a must-see at the theater. It had some great moments, however, so I'm not one of those "at least it didn't suck" guys. I was happy and satisfied, and I'm glad I saw it on the big screen. Overall, I'd give it a B to B+ with some satisfying "A" moments.

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The fight with the resurrected Superman vs. the Justice League was one of the "A" moments for me. Superman is my favorite character, and usually comics writers have to find a way to get Superman out of the way so that the other team members have a chance to actually do something. Here, Superman was in all his glory. As much as Zach Snyder is controversial for a lot of people, I do love the way he portrays Superman at his full power both here and in Man of Steel. The part of the fight where Flash runs up to him and Superman turns his head -- first just his eye -- and Flash sees that Superman can detect him and match his speed was great. Making it clear that Superman is more powerful than Wonder Woman was also great because it would have been so easy to give Diana another gratuitous shining moment, but the reality is that Superman is stronger and there is nothing wrong with showing that. Loved Superman getting the better of Batman and kicking Steppenwolf's ass.


**************************************** SPOILERS END ************************************************** ********************




I thought that the CGI Steppenwolf was actually quite good. Maybe because so many critics trashed him that my expectations were lowered, but I think they were too harsh there. Cavill's mustache being erased was something I could see in a couple of places, but the scenes that they added with him -- like the opening with the cellphone footage and the Superman/Flash race were worth it.

I had heard that Danny Elfman was going to put in a bit of the John Williams Superman theme, and I thought it worked well in the spot it showed up.

I don't mind using Steppenwolf as the villain. Yes, in the comics he's a henchman, but the movie made me believe he was a grade-A baddie. Nobody outside of comics knows who Darkseid is, so for the general audience it's probably 6 of one / half-dozen of the other. Given that the movie did have tons of footage cut and was patched together with Whedon's stuff, it's probably for the best that Darkseid didn't appear because fans might have been more disappointed if they felt he didn't live up to his potential in the final edit.

I think with Justice League, Warners is basically done with Zach Snyder's vision. I think they likely were done with it after the reactions to BvS and SS last year, but because JL was already in production, it was too late to stop the train, so they at least made sure that JL would not be a two-parter as originally planned, so they had a stop the bleeding mentality. I say this having liked both Man of Steel and BvS.

I just think that Zach Snyder as a brand has become radioactive as Mike Carlin would say, and that really nothing would have satisfied the critics who clearly had their knives sharpened and were just waiting to dissect the movie because that low of a rotten tomatoes score is just silly for this movie.

Remember, that there are TWO Rotten Tomatoes scores -- the Critics and the Audience. As I type this, the Critics score is 39% (5.3 out of 10), but the Audience score is 86% (4.3 out of 5)! Come on, that's a crazy disparity, and I don't want to get into the whole "plot against DC" thing, but I just think that the critics have a mindset that if a superhero movie is not like a Marvel movie, then there's something wrong with it.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/justice_league_2017

Often, DC movie reviews mention Marvel movies, but the Marvel movie reviews never mention DC movies, so it does seem as though the critics have a myopic mindset there. To me, it's possible to recognize the flaws in both studios (and yes, the Marvel movies all have glaring flaws), and appreciate the positives about each studio (and yes, the DC movies have positives).

So why was Wonder Woman so well received by critics if there's an anti-DC bias?

Well, first Wonder Woman was a legitimately great film. The plot was the plot and I can see why some would shrug their shoulders at it, but I thought that integrating World War One into it made the whole affair more grounded and relatable. Then, Patty Jenkins had a better eye for character than Zach Snyder did. Instead of just having cool moments, Jenkins had lots of good character moments that let us care about Diana and want to follow her on her mission. We saw the good of man's world and the horror of war through Diana's eyes. Jenkins never forgot that Diana needed to be the focus of our attention. And, of course, the No Man's Land sequence was a legitimate lump-in-the-throat moment of triumph for the character.

OK, but beyond that fact that WW was a great film and was helmed by a female, which made it a watershed moment, Wonder Woman had another important thing going for it -- there was no Marvel film like it to compare it to.

If Marvel had been first out of the gate with a super-female film that was done in the funny, quippy Marvel style that the critics wet themselves over, then perhaps Jenkins' Wonder Woman might have been looked on more unfavorably -- it would have been "wrong" in their eyes.

Now, finally, DC has the advantage in that with Wonder Woman being first and setting the benchmark, you will see Bree Larson's Captain Marvel being compared to it, and it will be interesting to see how the critics handle that. For the first time, we might see a Marvel film coming up short against DC.

Being first to market is always a good thing. Who knows, if Zach Snyder's Man of Steel had come out before Iron Man, maybe Iron Man would have looked too frivolous and campy.

Anyway, just remember that Justice League did get an 86% Rotten Tomato score from the general public. That compares quite favorably to Thor: Ragnarok's 89% Audience score, if not to Thor's 92% Critics' score.

As for Box Office, Friday estimates are that Justice League has earned $38 million dollars including Thursday previews. That's what Wonder Woman earned in its first day as well. I think Justice League had a good Saturday as audience turnout was nice at my local theater, but we'll see.

For the record, Wonder Woman had $35.2 million Saturday and $29.7 Sunday. If Justice League can hit those numbers, it will squeak past the $100 million benchmark, so we won't be saturated with those "Justice League disappoints at $95 million" headlines come Monday morning.

[AJBopp]

I had heard that Danny Elfman was going to put in a bit of the John Williams Superman theme, and I thought it worked well in the spot it showed up.

I'm told there were a few spots it showed up, but most people missed many of them. One that I haven't heard referenced was the first time (I think) that Superman punched Steppenwolf.

really nothing would have satisfied the critics who clearly had their knives sharpened and were just waiting to dissect the movie because that low of a rotten tomatoes score is just silly for this movie.

I do suspect it's true that nothing Zach Snyder is capable of creating would have satisfied the critics. I'm not certain that's on the critics.

[AJBopp]

A friendly reminder about Rotten Tomatoes:

A 90% rating doesn't mean that 100% of the reviewers thought it was 90% good. It means that 90% of the reviewers found more in the film worthwhile than not worthwhile.

Reviewers (when they do their job correctly - fewer of them do these days, which is why I pay more attention to the Top Critics score than All Critics one - report on how well a movie is made. General audiences rate on whether they had a good time. Food reviewers are not likely to give a Big Mac a very high rating, but a lot of people who aren't reviewers eat them all the time and will give it a thumbs up.

[Buried Alien]

By the way, AJ, the movie did provide an answer to satisfy our curiosity about the origins of Flash's costume.

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[AJBopp]

By the way, AJ, the movie did provide an answer to satisfy our curiosity about the origins of Flash's costume.

Lol, there are a few reasons I'm actually tempted to see this movie now, and getting the answer to that question is probably the strongest one of them.

[Buried Alien]

Lol, there are a few reasons I'm actually tempted to see this movie now, and getting the answer to that question is probably the strongest one of them.

Well, without spoiling anything, I can ABSOLUTELY ASSURE you that Cisco Ramon didn't make it!

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[AJBopp]

Well, without spoiling anything, I can ABSOLUTELY ASSURE you that Cisco Ramon didn't make it!

Oh man. No flotation mode??

[Buried Alien]

Oh man. No flotation mode??

Nope. Sorry.

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[Hiromi]

Anyway, just remember that Justice League did get an 86% Rotten Tomato score from the general public. That compares quite favorably to Thor: Ragnarok's 89% Audience score, if not to Thor's 92% Critics' score.

All an audience score on a site like Rotten Tomatoes tells you is the opinion of those who bothered to register for it and blog their opinion(usually knee jerk opinion right after seeing it), it's a small fraction of the actual movie going public and not a proper sampling for any kind of real data

That's actually the point though, it feels like this film is leading into something else.

Maybe, but then again when you invest half a billion into a film it HAS to be more than just foreshadowing for the next movie, and using what might have set a new bar for just how bad a comic book movie villain can be is just unacceptable on any level

[AJBopp]

Nope. Sorry.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Is there at least a plausible explanation of how the suit was funded? I assume it's high tech, and this version of Barry doesn't strike me as having the resources or brains to make it himself.

[Pinsir]

A friendly reminder about Rotten Tomatoes:

A 90% rating doesn't mean that 100% of the reviewers thought it was 90% good. It means that 90% of the reviewers found more in the film worthwhile than not worthwhile.

Reviewers (when they do their job correctly - fewer of them do these days, which is why I pay more attention to the Top Critics score than All Critics one - report on how well a movie is made. General audiences rate on whether they had a good time. Food reviewers are not likely to give a Big Mac a very high rating, but a lot of people who aren't reviewers eat them all the time and will give it a thumbs up.

I think if you do switch on the Top Critic scores you do get something more like the original Phase 1 films. During the initial phase 1 films there was considerable diversity in opinion, you has a film scoring in the 60's, a couple in the 70's, one in the low 80's, and 2 in the 90s. None of these were failures though. Now almost a decade latter the last film to get lower than an 80% was Age of Ultron (75%). Critics like these films more now than they did a decade ago and this corresponds to a demographic shift in the vocation where you could make a career commenting on and speculating about 'nerd' films.

Interestingly, I just checked Dr. Strange's RT score dropped to 89%.

[Darth Phoenix]

my DC fanboy boss treated a group of us from work and out of the 6 of us only 2 liked it and the rest just found it ok ish.
both girls in the group did not like the WW ass shots or boob joke so that was a deal breaker for them I guess.

I give it a c+. I won't pay for it but I would not turn it off once it hits Netflix or TV

[Jokerz79]

my DC fanboy boss treated a group of us from work and out of the 6 of us only 2 liked it and the rest just found it ok ish.
both girls in the group did not like the WW ass shots or boob joke so that was a deal breaker for them I guess.

I give it a c+. I won't pay for it but I would not turn it off once it hits Netflix or TV

Yeah I thought it was ok good if on TV or Netflix I'll give it a watch. If they do a Ultimate Cut I'll also give it a watch but if I'm going to watch the Justice League I'll probably stick too the DCAU animated series of Justice League and JLU.

[Buried Alien]

Is there at least a plausible explanation of how the suit was funded? I assume it's high tech, and this version of Barry doesn't strike me as having the resources or brains to make it himself.

Well...it's never quite specified how the material was acquired, but it's basically...

spoilers:

...heat reflective tiles, of a similar type used by the U.S. space shuttles

end of spoilers

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