Jane Thor vs Carol Danvers

[brettc1]

I will begin this by saying that I am a big fan of the idea of Thor getting back his hammer.

That said, Jane Foster has been and continues to be a compelling character. The battle she fought in her home title against the Shiar Gods, Dick and She-Dick, was (IMO) EPIC and really showed the essence of true heroism.

So here we have two characters, two women, two bad-ass powerhouses.

And I am TOLD that one of the is the greatest hero in the Marvel Universe.

But then I SEE that the other one, the one swinging the hammer, BEING that kind of hero that could actually rise to that level.

This is the thing that really irks me, and makes me feel sorry for Carol Danvers as a character. She has been pushed so hard, dragged through Civil War #2 (and the first one) and kinda trashed. Her own book, which I have bought every volume of since after House of M has floundered as she is hyped as the being the #1 hero in the MU, has not been a great read. I quit the latest volume about four issues in when it seemed to me that no serious character development after CW2 was forthcoming [and yet they cancelled Spider-Woman. Seriously, what the hell?]

But the thing that irks me even more than Jane Foster could die soon in relative obscurity, while being the written as the kind of hero that Carol seems to constantly try to be but which Jane achieves WITHOUT TRYING AT ALL.

I mean, here is a woman who is literally dying every time she picks up the hammer. The cancer eating away her life cannot be cured while she is turning back and forth from goddess to mortal. And she knows that, but every time its needed she never hesitates to grab Mjolnir and go. She hates that Thor doesn't have the hammer, but she doesn't let that stop her using it to defend the weak. Her heart is so big it makes mine ache!

People ask "Who is the Wonder Woman of the MU". It is Jane. For my money it is Jane, hands down no question at all. Aaron has taken this character and had her outshine every and all competition in that regard. I would rate her alongside Captain America, Spider-Man, and Thor as one of the most truly heroic characters of any Marvel title. In my mind she stands as their equal in every way.

All without apparently trying.

Just my opinion.

[pageturner]

JAne is great and I have no doubt when Thor gets his hammer back she will be taken care of ala Beta Ray Bill but Carol has a very impressive resume of her own.

[Garbledarber]

Jane's book is better written. Carol has been lumped with C-list talent and Marvel wonders why her book remains a C-list book. She needs a star to help her break out.

[brettc1]

Jane's book is better written. Carol has been lumped with C-list talent and Marvel wonders why her book remains a C-list book. She needs a star to help her break out.

That is definitely the deciding factor, and it comes down to the ethos of the character.

For a decade now Carol has obsessed over showing everyone she is the best there is. To the point where you figure it must be the writers north star for her characterization.

Aaron just show Jane being a hero. A character who is carrying around a hammer that defines worthiness and she never really worries about it. She just does what she thinks is right to help others, while still retaining a sense of self as Jane Foster [enjoying punching out Odin for all the crap he gave her, knocking Loki's head off for same].

If writers just gave up on trying to PUSH who good Carol is and showed her, like we see with Jane without it ever being mentioned, then Carol might have half a chance. As it is Jane is out front by a league.

[MadFacedKid]

I'd love to see Aaron on Captain Marvel just because of what he did with Jane. Not even that though, the guy is a fan drawer and his writing typically is really good. I'd feel we'd get a more up there Carol whose not fighting characters like Black Widow or Spiderwoman but heck giving characters like Glads or Jane herself a run. After Civil War 2 was a perfect time to start playing Carol up but.. Mystique chair wielding lookalikes is the direction Stohl decided to go in. Hell imagine a Kree/Shiar war Carol gets dragged into. Or teamups and appearances in other books like Jen's Hulk book or Doctor Strange.

I'd honestly would take Bendis over Stohl.

Carol is an adult to. Who as Ms Marvel never tried to really ever prove herself to people and Garner attention like that. This characterization of hers where she needs to prove she's "Earth's mightiest hero" needs to go.

[Frontier]

At least Carol taking over her identity didn't lead to Mar-Vell being deemed "unworthy" or thrown under the bus.

[Sutekh]

After Civil War 2 was a perfect time to start playing Carol up but.. Mystique chair wielding lookalikes is the direction Stohl decided to go in. Hell imagine a Kree/Shiar war Carol gets dragged into.

Carol interacting with more cosmic/space folk like the Shiar Imperial Guard would indeed be pretty cool, or involving other space/cosmic folk like Hulkling and his ties to the Skrull throne, or Karolina Dean and Majesdanian politics, or 'Bob' the Uranian from Agents of Atlas, or even Marrina and the Plodex on Earth (and elsewhere, which would probably be super-relevant, since she's hanging out with some of Marrina's old Alpha Flight teammates...).

Carol just needs better storylines, something half as glorious as what Jane is getting.

[Colossus1980]

Jane's book is better written. Carol has been lumped with C-list talent and Marvel wonders why her book remains a C-list book. She needs a star to help her break out.

Jane Thor's comic run is memorable. Most of Carol's comics are forgettable. You have to wonder why Marvel is not paying for top talent to work on their 'Wonder Woman'.

[Hizashi]

Some people have legitimate qualms about both characters, but Jane Thor has a good story and a clear direction, and has been part of a large multi-year story arc. What about Carol? I think forgettable describes her book very well, and it's a travesty what's been done to her in trying to make her Marvel's answer to Wonder Woman. Personally, I don't think Marvel has any female character that comes close to WW, and that definitely includes Carol.

[Drops Of Venus]

I guess it just really comes down to this: Jane rose to success very organically while Carol has been the ''fetch'' of the MU, as much as it pains me to say, because I DO like the character. I'm not even one of those people who think she has to go back to being Ms. Marvel ASAP, as I think the Cap. Marvel move made sense. That was organic. Actually, I'd say KSD's run was very organic and I think most people probably agree that she was the one who handled Carol the best. The problem is that ever since KSD left, Marvel doesn't seem to really know what to do with the character and her whole characterization and stories have just been going downhill ever since. I do wish they would put her solo on hold (although I wouldn't be surprised to find out there is some sort of higher-up mandate for her to be featured in a solo book because of the movie franchise coming up; they need source material and Carol hasn't been Cap. for all that long) and just let her breathe for a while, maybe just using her in an Avengers title, until they figure out the best way to tell her story.

But YASSS, let's all agree on Jane (well, except for some bitter Odinson fans). She's just terrific. Best heroine Marvel has right now. Even after her run as Thor comes to an end, Marvel would have to be CRAZY to not keep using her in some way.

Jane's book is better written. Carol has been lumped with C-list talent and Marvel wonders why her book remains a C-list book. She needs a star to help her break out.

I keep reading this, but I'm not sure if I agree if that's precisely the issue here. Was Brian Reed considered a comic book A-list star when he wrote Carol as Ms. Marvel? Because that is considered her most sucessful modern run (it lasted for over 50 issues, IIRC). I mean, was G. Willow Wilson a comic book A-list star when she turned Kamala into a breakout star? While I think a big name could help, I don't think it's the defining factor here. I have this theory that the Captain Marvel name, for some reason, is just harder to sell. Carol as Cap. had a hard time from the get-go: as praised as KSD's run was, the sales weren't all that impressive. And this is not just a Carol thing: Captain Marvel, as a title, is historically known to struggle in sales, going way back to the Mar-Vell days. Multiple people have used the title, and none of them truly took it to the A-list level. It is very known that Marvel kept the title alive for trademark reasons, and it's very likely Carol was the biggest promoted one because of the MCU. So, maybe, it's just that: maybe Captain Marvel just doesn't work as a solo title like Marvel would want. Maybe the movies will change that perception; maybe they won't. Time will tell, I guess.

At least Carol taking over her identity didn't lead to Mar-Vell being deemed "unworthy" or thrown under the bus.

At least Odinson will never ever fade into obscurity and will have his due sooner or later because he's just that important to the publisher. That's a lot more than fans of Mar-Vell, Monica Rambeau, Genis-Vell, Phyla-Vell and Noh-Varr can say. Heck, I'd take those characters getting the Odinson treatment over how they are treated right now any day. At least they would be on actual stories and not just permanently killed or in constant limbo.

[JudicatorPrime]

Sorry for getting off topic, but Jane will still be a Thor even when Odinson regains his mantle, right? There's still the Ultimate-verse hammer running around, isn't there? Maybe she gets that one???

[MadFacedKid]

Jane Thor's comic run is memorable. Most of Carol's comics are forgettable. You have to wonder why Marvel is not paying for top talent to work on their 'Wonder Woman'.

I'd argue because Carol's stories are basically written like she's facing the villain of the week. Her comic book of it was a cartoon would just be basically fillers. She needs a set of epic arcs and filler reads in between each epic.

She needs a story that basically captivates readers. Using Wonder Woman like a First Born type story, See Wakanda and Die stuff like that. A story that would expand her mythology and introduce a credible threat. Like how Gorr the Godbutcher was for Thor, The First Lantern for Hal, The Dead King for Aquaman, etc. Those are epics with memorable villains

Also show she's awesome by the stuff she does, not by saying it. Jane comes off badass by her actions and hell the fact her actions are killing her. Show Carol being a hero instead of repeatedly stating she's the mightiest hero without any merit to it.

[Michael Watkins]

they should have her go toe-to-toe with Superia (and whatever army she assembles), for an arc.

[JudicatorPrime]

Jane's book is better written. Carol has been lumped with C-list talent and Marvel wonders why her book remains a C-list book. She needs a star to help her break out.

Do you mean Carol's creative teams were C-list talent?