Is it time for Polaris to get a push in the X-books?

[jmc247]

Too much lip service get our hopes up every time. She need writers that love her character - beyond the old version that keeps returning.

There is a lesson to be had from the 90s which writers last decade for Lorna to their detriment didn't heed. PAD's quirky scripts in the start of the 90s hit the zeitgeist of the era for a lot of fans. But, when you look deeper behind the scripts people loved there was very little there to Lorna. PAD himself recognized this by the end of his short lived first run and started making her unstable as a way to shake up the script from generic hero antics and love triangle drama which was all the character had.

Writers after like JM were kind of left in a lurch because their scripts didn't catch the zeitgeist of the era and just as importantly the comic bubble burst so the amount being spent on elective satellite titles dried up. JM and Howard Makie after him tried to make what PAD did work. It didn't work so they kept increasingly the amount they would have her be pseudo edgy by being unstable and violent in a she can't control it sort of way. Then they tried making her pseudo edgy without being edgy by making Mystique her good friend and giving her a team by the end of 90s X-Factor that looked from membership more like an iteration of the Brotherhood (including Mystique and Sabretooth) then a generic super hero team.

It didn't work for Lorna and in the end I believe it was because Lorna deep down never stopped being the generic mother hen that ascribes to generic X-Men values (of whatever they happened to be at the moment). The failure of Lorna's short lived runs last decade including two runs on X-Factor were for the same reasons as JM and Makie's Lorna failed. The scripts weren't managing to hit the public zeitgeist, the market wasn't as good as it used to be, and Lorna at the end of the day was a generic x-character with romantic and on and off mental health issues.

My comments are as much to help Leah and her coming run as they are to help the character as the two are interwoven for the time being. A Lorna who actually does see the world differently then her fellow compatriots can lend itself to interaction that doesn't fall into the trap of being only generic hero antics, romantic intrigue, and stability issues. Philosophical issues as in real ones can interject the drama that keeps the title from getting old fast in very different market from 1991 or even 2005.

Lip service as you put it to a complex Lorna doesn't get anything more then add to the list of failed titles and lead to limbo for the character. Lets hope it doesn't go that way. The thing about the character is she should be fun to read, she should care about mutants and those around her, but based on her experiences she should also should have a very different worldview and set of ethics then your blog standard X-Man and also be willing to act on those views when she feels she has to. Its the last portion that writers have trouble with and keep trying the 90s formula which doesn't work.

[Will Evans]

I know you keep dissing the mother hen aspect of Lorna from the early 90s. But at the time, coming off of her long stints as Malice’s, Zaladane’s and Shadow King’s plaything, we welcomed it wholeheartedly.

[jmc247]

I know you keep dissing the mother hen aspect of Lorna from the early 90s. But at the time, coming off of her long stints as Malice’s, Zaladane’s and Shadow King’s plaything, we welcomed it wholeheartedly.

We only speak for ourselves. I am sure many appreciated it. Stability after the mess that was the 1980s for the character? Sure, I appreciated stability in the sense of getting the characters powers back from Claremont's stupid plans for her and restoring a semblance of a character.

The problem is the character fell into a trap at the same time of generally a happy go lucky model heroine without a real personality nor anything besides mental health issues to make her distinctive from the loads of contemporaries that made it over her during the Claremont era.

It was a placeholder era for the character until she found a better reason to be around then romantic intrigue and whatever super heroics the new team she is on is doing. She slowly found that in the late 90s and early 2000s and then lost it as writers fell back on vague nostalgia for an era that ran out of storytelling gas for the character by 1993.

There is a history with Lorna worth building upon, but it takes thinking about it and looking deep at her history. 1991-1993 was far from the worst era in her history and had its moments, but its her recent runs have tried really hard to their detriment to recreate that era without an understanding of why the era ran out of storytelling hard for her and fizzled.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I wish the editors would make a point of giving narratives to more characters, but people mostly want to see the exact same thing over and over and over again. It's so silly how we never see stuff like Polaris working closely with...idk...Magik, totally random, on an important mission for 2 or 3 issues. Why don't they mix things up every once in a while?

[AbnormallyNormal]

I wish the editors would make a point of giving narratives to more characters, but people mostly want to see the exact same thing over and over and over again. It's so silly how we never see stuff like Polaris working closely with...idk...Magik, totally random, on an important mission for 2 or 3 issues. Why don't they mix things up every once in a while?

XMen BLUE put Lorna with "weird" teammates for 4-5 issues including Daken who she will now be alongside again in the new XFactor. It was also i think Lorna's only time cooperating on a mission with Emma Frost even if it was very briefly.

XMen Legacy did a lot of weird teams (not Lorna related, just your general point), in fact that era of late 00's, early 10's (before AvX) had a lot of team experimentation with rosters

Last time there was a thread "make your ideal X-team" i came up with something like:

Polaris
Frenzy
Mystique
Domino
Psylocke
Daken
Elixir

You can't tell me that's "to be expected" or "routine" right? But I feel like it could work and gel... a lot of things can, it depends on the context/purpose of team and how a writer shapes the characterizations (also importantly, how things change over the course of the story - you want a team that has built-in dynamics and conflict, but not just totally dysfunctional either)

[salarta]

That would be very much true, but it also does get back to a question of roles as others have brought up. What is Lorna's role in the x-books on a larger level?

Is it bad assed x-woman heroine? Because there is a laundry list of characters Marvel views as deserving of that role and who already have what writers yearn for built in relationships and tension with one another.

Looking at the image again this time, I realize Marvel could have very easily put Lorna on the picture at a good size and kept everyone already there if they had simply moved Shadowcat closer to Storm.

This already adds to the problem of how Marvel clearly sees other characters like Magik and Dani Moonstar as deserving of recognition as female X-Men, but Lorna as not. Reiterating how little they think of her on multiple fronts: her place in franchise history, her potential as a character, whether or not fandom for her is worth anything in their eyes.

It says a lot about the people who work at Marvel when things like this happen. And feeds into why I think so little of them in return. I see no reason to "respect" Marvel or their current plans when they don't show respect for what I care about. It also lays out all their excuses as just that, excuses, borne of excessive nostalgia that extends to even the worst attitudes they've acquired about characters. It's not like including Lorna in the above image would've been a massive undertaking. When they won't do something as simple as this, there's not much reason to trust them with anything else.

[CRaymond]

I like the idea of Legion basing his personalities off of other characters he knows and his relationships with them ; I like Lorna being like his big sis . They were on the Muir Island team right, so it checks out ? even if it doesn't...I'll believe it anyways it makes sense loL

Well it was an idea that spun out of conversations about shaving the excess mutant population with a reboot full of infinity warps and cleaned up continuity. Dudes like Omega Red and Mikhail Rasputin were combined into one character, Frenzy & Callisto, Kwannon & Karma, Chamber & Feron.

With Legion came the potential to clean up a BUNCH of extraneous X-Men with debatable importance to the brand. Part of the problem with Legion is that his gimmick: multiple powered personalities, is weak --since we have no relationship with the other personas. They just are, and we're expected to think they're cool. I say flip it, and make the personalities incredibly valuable, dangerous, compelling, chaotic. Start with Legion as Charles and Moira's son with Meggan's powerset. His telepathic dad shuts down his psychic potential, and the result makes him Kevin Sidney, Morph. Morph tends to crack under stress, and becomes reality-wapring Proteus. His resentment toward his father's meddling causes him to manifest the "voice in his head" Cyttorak, as well as the unstoppable force Juggernaut. His sympathy to Uncle Magneto compels him to create the Lorna Dane daughter of Magneto identity. Along the way he develops several other personas like Malice, who's totally aware of the multiple personality situation, Firefist who isn't. Siena Blaze who wants to burn the world down, and Blindfold who constantly sees it burning anyway.

[Will Evans]

Looking at the image again this time, I realize Marvel could have very easily put Lorna on the picture at a good size and kept everyone already there if they had simply moved Shadowcat closer to Storm.

This already adds to the problem of how Marvel clearly sees other characters like Magik and Dani Moonstar as deserving of recognition as female X-Men, but Lorna as not. Reiterating how little they think of her on multiple fronts: her place in franchise history, her potential as a character, whether or not fandom for her is worth anything in their eyes.

It says a lot about the people who work at Marvel when things like this happen. And feeds into why I think so little of them in return. I see no reason to "respect" Marvel or their current plans when they don't show respect for what I care about. It also lays out all their excuses as just that, excuses, borne of excessive nostalgia that extends to even the worst attitudes they've acquired about characters. It's not like including Lorna in the above image would've been a massive undertaking. When they won't do something as simple as this, there's not much reason to trust them with anything else.

It’s not like Rachel or Dazzler are on the image as well.

[salarta]

It’s not like Rachel or Dazzler are on the image as well.

Yeah, but Rachel and Dazzler:

1) aren't the second female X-Men member in the franchise, and
2) don't have the history of mistreatment out of Marvel that makes such acknowledgment so needed as it is for Lorna

Dazzler's had a solo and oneshots, including a oneshot in 2018. Rachel was part of the all-female X-Men team in 2013. Lorna's had neither. She's never had a solo or oneshot, and she hasn't been acknowledged as a meaningful woman in the franchise alongside other women in decades. Not to mention how it took over 40 years for her to finally get her origin story told while Rachel had hers told in only 4.

The closest Lorna's come was leading ANXF, which Marvel didn't really support or promote, and which had problems in early issues of treating her like she was only leader in name while Gambit acted like the de facto leader (getting away with directly contradicting her plans, recruiting members including Danger who she didn't want on the team, etc).

You can look at Dazzler and Rachel's history and say "Well, they may not be on this picture, but they're certainly valued as female X-Men." You can't say the same about Lorna. In spite of her being the second woman to join, right after Jean.

[yogaflame]

I feel for Polaris fans. Other than X-Factor, what do they really have?

That said, Lorna just isn't that interesting. Magneto does her power first and better. Jean was the first X-Gal, Storm is the best. I just don't really see a place for her in the main X-Men team. She works better in the satellite books.

[Agent Z]

There is a lesson to be had from the 90s which writers last decade for Lorna to their detriment didn't heed. PAD's quirky scripts in the start of the 90s hit the zeitgeist of the era for a lot of fans. But, when you look deeper behind the scripts people loved there was very little there to Lorna. PAD himself recognized this by the end of his short lived first run and started making her unstable as a way to shake up the script from generic hero antics and love triangle drama which was all the character had.

Writers after like JM were kind of left in a lurch because their scripts didn't catch the zeitgeist of the era and just as importantly the comic bubble burst so the amount being spent on elective satellite titles dried up. JM and Howard Makie after him tried to make what PAD did work. It didn't work so they kept increasingly the amount they would have her be pseudo edgy by being unstable and violent in a she can't control it sort of way. Then they tried making her pseudo edgy without being edgy by making Mystique her good friend and giving her a team by the end of 90s X-Factor that looked from membership more like an iteration of the Brotherhood (including Mystique and Sabretooth) then a generic super hero team.

It didn't work for Lorna and in the end I believe it was because Lorna deep down never stopped being the generic mother hen that ascribes to generic X-Men values (of whatever they happened to be at the moment). The failure of Lorna's short lived runs last decade including two runs on X-Factor were for the same reasons as JM and Makie's Lorna failed. The scripts weren't managing to hit the public zeitgeist, the market wasn't as good as it used to be, and Lorna at the end of the day was a generic x-character with romantic and on and off mental health issues.

My comments are as much to help Leah and her coming run as they are to help the character as the two are interwoven for the time being. A Lorna who actually does see the world differently then her fellow compatriots can lend itself to interaction that doesn't fall into the trap of being only generic hero antics, romantic intrigue, and stability issues. Philosophical issues as in real ones can interject the drama that keeps the title from getting old fast in very different market from 1991 or even 2005.

Lip service as you put it to a complex Lorna doesn't get anything more then add to the list of failed titles and lead to limbo for the character. Lets hope it doesn't go that way. The thing about the character is she should be fun to read, she should care about mutants and those around her, but based on her experiences she should also should have a very different worldview and set of ethics then your blog standard X-Man and also be willing to act on those views when she feels she has to. Its the last portion that writers have trouble with and keep trying the 90s formula which doesn't work.

Who is JM?

10 chars.

[jmc247]

Who is JM?

10 chars.

J.M. DeMatteis who took over X-Factor in 1993.



From 1993. Out of her three major 1990s writers, JM probably was the closest to being onto something positive as she actually cared about the plight of mutants in a way that brought tension inside of her team, but he didn't build her views into an actual worldview and future writers didn't follow up on it so it didn't go much of anywhere. It was the early 2000s that really got that restarted in a more robust and obvious way.

and we love to see it. or at least I do as a fellow derailed POS
I like the idea of Legion basing his personalities off of other characters he knows and his relationships with them ; I like Lorna being like his big sis . They were on the Muir Island team right, so it checks out ? even if it doesn't...I'll believe it anyways it makes sense lol

to kind of build off everyone else's super well-thought out posts, I offer my humbler, raggedier post: I'd like the 2020s to be for Lorna what the 2010s were for Kitty.
Maybe not in terms of the evenness of characterization, or quality of books she was in, but in how she kind of snowballed from hit-or-miss supporting role to basically solidifying herself as able to headline a team book. I think Lorna's role in X-Factor and her kind of vague but still there treatment as Magneto's heir in the new status quo is evidence of a potentially positive trajectory - she's in a better place then kitty was in 2010

I can half way buy Hickman's Lorna being set up as Magneto's heir to his legacy. I couldn't buy it at all for any of the other depictions of her in the regular Marvel universe last decade and a half. Right now it feels like Exodus is the legacy character for old Magneto though in real terms of working with his ex-followers and leading the honorable militant mutants. It will be interesting if TPTB are one day is courageous enough to have a conflict between Lorna and Magneto with her thinking he has gotten too establishment, settled and complacent. That is the sort of outside the box thinking that we haven't seen.

[Will Evans]

I seriously want to see Exodus follow Lorna around like a lost puppy. Sincerely calling her “Your highness.” And treat her like a knight treats a queen.

[salarta]

I feel for Polaris fans. Other than X-Factor, what do they really have?

That said, Lorna just isn't that interesting. Magneto does her power first and better. Jean was the first X-Gal, Storm is the best. I just don't really see a place for her in the main X-Men team. She works better in the satellite books.

Most of what Lorna fans have is each other, and it pairs up with why there's a perception of her by some that she isn't interesting. The sentiment is true and accurate when you're looking at how Marvel treats her. The company doesn't do anything with her, uses her to benefit other characters, and undermines the rare chances she does get cause they either don't think she deserves it or don't think she's capable.

What happened around Gifted is case in point to me. In its lead-up, Marvel brought Blink back to join a team in the 616 and brought back Exiles with her as the lead. But when Lorna broke out on the show and became its most popular character, the character and her actress Emma Dumont highly touted in multiple publications, Marvel did absolutely nothing. All they "did" was make a cover for X-Men Blue to encourage Lorna fans to read what turned out to be an effort to promote Havok at her expense.

What kind of company sees growing interest in a character and instead of thinking "We should do more with that character," thinks "We should use that character to get people reading this other character that we think is far better than her?"

Gifted season 1 showed that Lorna can be both interesting and popular if treated right. Fandom fills its own needs as Marvel won't fill the demand for real Lorna content. I know for a fact that with everything Lorna has to her name, she could easily not just be a major player in the franchise, she could sell an ongoing solo book with the right writing that speaks to her true potential and covers all her creative options. I'm not saying she has to have a solo, but she very easily could. Which makes the general Marvel attitude one that stirs so much abrasiveness in me toward them. They aren't even trying. They're just insisting she's not able to offer anything because that's what their biases tell them, and they really don't want to question their own assumptions about who and what has worth.

And honestly, I think they're a little afraid of finding out they've been wrong about her. It would make them have to rethink everything they think they've know about the franchise for decades.

[yogaflame]

I didn't watch that show, but I'm glad you liked it! Storm fans are still waiting for a live-action Storm we can get behind(well, purist Storm fans, some of these people liked that mess....).