What if superman had been in the roman empire?

[Agniwolf]

But the fact Jesus doesn't change the world would be the crux of part of this. For the average inhabitant of Judea except for some promise of a better world after they die, their lives are no better for Christ having been there. If anything for the early Christians it was worse as they had both Rome and the Jewish elders opposed to the movement. Now into that add the appearance of some powerful being who is looking to up-end things. Jesus was content to "render unto Caesar" and while he urged his followers who collected taxes not to be corrupt, he didn't look to reform the tax system. Supremus on the other hand is physically dealing with the local tax collector who is still corrupt. He is rescuing his friends from the gladiatorial games against lions.

So as an average Josephus in Judea, is Christ's teachings more appealing than Supremus' actions? How does a man who actually fights to prevent the Judean Diaspora after Masada compare to a crucified semi-pacifist as a messiah?

How does someone who isn't making a claim of divinity (unlike the emperors and Jesus) but has such powers fit into Roman society? Diana's presence might strengthen the idea of Olympians as gods, but unless they have some hidden motive Zeus & Co aren't claiming Kal-El as a member. And even if he loyally tried to support an existing Emperor, a flying super-strong man inherently undermines the divinity of that emperor by comparison.

this is another question of an what if contex, would the jewish god descend into earth and estabilish the trinity if superman was already here? there was a need at that time to reconcile the people through faith, mays be super could be a supporter of christianity and thus inhibiting the suppression, but would paul exist as a apostle?, if pax suprema used superman's feat as a way to enforce his state religion would even judaism or other religion even exist? he could very well end up being diana's enemy because a divine command and she is their champion, or be forced to marry her (despite lois or kara) for the sake of legitimate the religion demigodlyng despite being counterparts

you could even have two or more totally independen universes coincidentally happening in the same period of time

[Agniwolf]

I can't believe I started such a amazing conversation thanks guys and gals.

we are the ones grateful for such an innovative idea

[Soubhagya]

I can't believe I started such a amazing conversation thanks guys and gals.

Thank you! Its a brilliant idea. Loved to be the part of this discussion.

nah you right democracy is good, if he does in fact estabilishes a solid base for it, maybe even going to that in the first thousand years as long as the basis should already be pretty solid by then

however nothing blocks him from having a semi democratic empire, thinking better about it maybe this is the best ending scennario

This is the power of calm and careful discussion which i am happy to be part of. Let me try this somewhere else and it would devolve into fighting and shouting matches. Pretty soon we would find Captain America or Iron Man even MCU in the discussion.

Your ideas are pretty good too. Its more realistic then mine.

[Powerboy]

But the fact Jesus doesn't change the world would be the crux of part of this. For the average inhabitant of Judea except for some promise of a better world after they die, their lives are no better for Christ having been there. If anything for the early Christians it was worse as they had both Rome and the Jewish elders opposed to the movement. Now into that add the appearance of some powerful being who is looking to up-end things. Jesus was content to "render unto Caesar" and while he urged his followers who collected taxes not to be corrupt, he didn't look to reform the tax system. Supremus on the other hand is physically dealing with the local tax collector who is still corrupt. He is rescuing his friends from the gladiatorial games against lions.

So as an average Josephus in Judea, is Christ's teachings more appealing than Supremus' actions? How does a man who actually fights to prevent the Judean Diaspora after Masada compare to a crucified semi-pacifist as a messiah?

How does someone who isn't making a claim of divinity (unlike the emperors and Jesus) but has such powers fit into Roman society? Diana's presence might strengthen the idea of Olympians as gods, but unless they have some hidden motive Zeus & Co aren't claiming Kal-El as a member. And even if he loyally tried to support an existing Emperor, a flying super-strong man inherently undermines the divinity of that emperor by comparison.

Joke noted and two thumbs up.

Too true. Even assuming that Jesus did heal people in our theoretical story, it's really not changing society or the world in the short term. Meanwhile, depending on the story, Superman may genuinely be freeing the poor from their lot and causing the upheaval of society on a grand scale. That he insists he is not a god just makes him humble and even more likeable since he could not possibly be anything but a god. And he is obviously the true emperor whether he claims the throne or not since anyone else is emperor only by his leave. If he says, "Let local people have their own religions. It concerns me not. Leave this carpenter/ teacher/ healer alone", that actually undermines the movement that would one day be called Christianity because Christianity grew out of early adversity and persecution which strengthened it.

And yes, if Princess Diana showed up, that would have people wondering which god Superman is and which one Diana is. Maybe something to do with Kryptonian tech causes other super beings to appear ala Squadron Supreme". The Flash is obviously Hermes/ Mercury. Then you've really got people believing the gods of Olympus are showing themselves to mortals again in that age.

[Soubhagya]

There is another thread of discussion which was going in parallel to the one i participated in. I concerned myself with Superman's world. How the world changes on his arrival and his role in it. Either set it in the real world which has nothing supernatural except Superman or in a semi-real world with the supernatural along with magic existing. Expanding upon his role as the Man of Tomorrow a good scenario was arrived at.

But in my posts i ignored something which is too different that all calculations and projections go haywire. Its religion. A topic which is so fundamental to the growth of world and also so controversial that moving ahead in this direction is difficult.

Personally, i feel its more difficult not because of hurt sentiments. Internet and free speech means a civilized world allows controversial viewpoints. Its the fact that the world of Superman and the world of Jesus Christ is incompatible. Its not possible to mix oil and water. Perhaps some scientist may change some property of oil and can mix it with water but the question would then arise. Is it oil when you have changed its property?

In a way i can bring both of them in the same world but i have to change something really fundamental in one or both for them to co-exist. Changing Superman might work. After all its a work of fiction for the purpose of entertainment. On the other hand depending on who you are asking Jesus Christ is either fiction or real but its not about entertainment or mental jugglery. Its about a way of life which also brings with it sentiments.

Let me be clearer. Superman exists in a world of chance where something like a planet can blow up. The other world forgoes all chance and everything happens through a plan or an invisible hand. Those who can see or understand it can comprehend the underlying purpose and don't find the concepts of all powerful and all good contradictory.

So, one has to adjust or modify the central figure and put him in the other's world. So, the planet Krypton blew up can work. But it has to be stripped off its underlying ideas like failure of Krypton and its people which is part of Superman's mythology. And that's just the beginning. Similarly, if i have to have the other personality in Superman's world he is just a supernatural being, a carrier of some Godlike being's message. Because his message about God would contradict 'God' in Superman's world.

Thus, i admit failure even if i did do something like this in my previous idea. Further, i don't have a clearer knowledge of Religious history and that of Rome. Its easy to simply transplant Superman from comics to Rome of comics. But its difficult to transplant Superman in comics to actual Rome. In this let me clarify that what i mean by 'Rome of comics' is not too different an idea. It depends upon how much you accept Jesus Christ. As a historical figure and his teachings. If he is just a historical figure the way i described Rome of comics is the same Ancient Rome of history. If his teachings are of value then Rome is different and the idea of Rome as described by me is but imaginary.

Well to speak these things in an uncomplicated manner i can't enter the discussion on religious aspects. Because as soon as we enter it we enter with the paradigm that Jesus Christ is somebody lesser then what is usually understood by his lovers. I am not a Christian, neither by birth nor by practice but man i have a lot of respect for him. While trying to think in another way i found it difficult to do so. Its surreal.

I can contribute only in the crudest possible way. A versus between both of them. People have a tendency to simply make Superman fight. Batman vs Superman. Goku vs Superman. Even Black Adam vs Superman. These are a few samples which is easily found in the internet at the moment. So, let me take this fight to the logical conclusion from one viewpoint. Its pretty simple. Enter Superman the Apostle. Or at least an admirer. Honestly a good man can't be an enemy of Jesus Christ. Such a man either becomes a follower or an admirer. Its just a matter of not misunderstanding him.

[Agniwolf]

There is another thread of discussion which was going in parallel to the one i participated in. I concerned myself with Superman's world. How the world changes on his arrival and his role in it. Either set it in the real world which has nothing supernatural except Superman or in a semi-real world with the supernatural along with magic existing. Expanding upon his role as the Man of Tomorrow a good scenario was arrived at.

But in my posts i ignored something which is too different that all calculations and projections go haywire. Its religion. A topic which is so fundamental to the growth of world and also so controversial that moving ahead in this direction is difficult.

Personally, i feel its more difficult not because of hurt sentiments. Internet and free speech means a civilized world allows controversial viewpoints. Its the fact that the world of Superman and the world of Jesus Christ is incompatible. Its not possible to mix oil and water. Perhaps some scientist may change some property of oil and can mix it with water but the question would then arise. Is it oil when you have changed its property?

In a way i can bring both of them in the same world but i have to change something really fundamental in one or both for them to co-exist. Changing Superman might work. After all its a work of fiction for the purpose of entertainment. On the other hand depending on who you are asking Jesus Christ is either fiction or real but its not about entertainment or mental jugglery. Its about a way of life which also brings with it sentiments.

Let me be clearer. Superman exists in a world of chance where something like a planet can blow up. The other world forgoes all chance and everything happens through a plan or an invisible hand. Those who can see or understand it can comprehend the underlying purpose and don't find the concepts of all powerful and all good contradictory.

So, one has to adjust or modify the central figure and put him in the other's world. So, the planet Krypton blew up can work. But it has to be stripped off its underlying ideas like failure of Krypton and its people which is part of Superman's mythology. And that's just the beginning. Similarly, if i have to have the other personality in Superman's world he is just a supernatural being, a carrier of some Godlike being's message. Because his message about God would contradict 'God' in Superman's world.

Thus, i admit failure even if i did do something like this in my previous idea. Further, i don't have a clearer knowledge of Religious history and that of Rome. Its easy to simply transplant Superman from comics to Rome of comics. But its difficult to transplant Superman in comics to actual Rome. In this let me clarify that what i mean by 'Rome of comics' is not too different an idea. It depends upon how much you accept Jesus Christ. As a historical figure and his teachings. If he is just a historical figure the way i described Rome of comics is the same Ancient Rome of history. If his teachings are of value then Rome is different and the idea of Rome as described by me is but imaginary.

Well to speak these things in an uncomplicated manner i can't enter the discussion on religious aspects. Because as soon as we enter it we enter with the paradigm that Jesus Christ is somebody lesser then what is usually understood by his lovers. I am not a Christian, neither by birth nor by practice but man i have a lot of respect for him. While trying to think in another way i found it difficult to do so. Its surreal.

I can contribute only in the crudest possible way. A versus between both of them. People have a tendency to simply make Superman fight. Batman vs Superman. Goku vs Superman. Even Black Adam vs Superman. These are a few samples which is easily found in the internet at the moment. So, let me take this fight to the logical conclusion from one viewpoint. Its pretty simple. Enter Superman the Apostle. Or at least an admirer. Honestly a good man can't be an enemy of Jesus Christ. Such a man either becomes a follower or an admirer. Its just a matter of not misunderstanding him.

the moment that the idea of superman being a contemporary to christ it becames such a big game changer that everything else can go haywire, even as an apostle, there is more harm than good, so the best outcome is to have him never getting in direct contact or simply go with a story were christianity never consolidated, otherwise everything else becomes a bigger mess than if they were on the same concept storyboard, not to mention creating a fictional religion spare the readers from heated arguments about the desacralization of faith

[Thor-Ul]

It is a requisite the story is set around "year zero"? The Roman Empire existed before and after the new testament times and a lot of other stories could be made. There a many aspexcts of that time and culture than could be used asstory, as for example how rich in several gods and pantheons was the roman empire. Religious freedom was then a fact.
Also we must don't forget than in the times of the roman conquest of Judea, there were a lot (a lot!) of messiah and cults and in the beggining the christians were one of many several cults among the empire frontier and all them claim their chosen one was capable of miracles. Another one wouldn't make any difference.

[Agniwolf]

It is a requisite the story is set around "year zero"? The Roman Empire existed before and after the new testament times and a lot of other stories could be made. There a many aspexcts of that time and culture than could be used asstory, as for example how rich in several gods and pantheons was the roman empire. Religious freedom was then a fact.
Also we must don't forget than in the times of the roman conquest of Judea, there were a lot (a lot!) of messiah and cults and in the beggining the christians were one of many several cults among the empire frontier and all them claim their chosen one was capable of miracles. Another one wouldn't make any difference.

exactly, putting superman in a frame he never meets christianity is for the best

[Jovos2099]

I think if you the consider all the things actually believed
back then the story of our hypathecal Roman superman the story of him being from a planet that exploded would be something that if it became public knowledge people would be able to reconcile it with the beliefs they already possessed.

[Black Angel]

Imagine him being a general to Marcus Arielus he would have been so badass.

[Thor-Ul]

What about a Superman as a roman secret weapon to conquer a village of indomitable gauls?

[Jon Clark]

What about a Superman as a roman secret weapon to conquer a village of indomitable gauls?

Did the Romans even consider the concept of "secret weapon"? I'm sure they had some things they didn't want enemies learning how to do, but I don't believe if they had a weapon they were a culture that wouldn't use it immediately. So SuperCenturion would be used in every possible battle, not kept limited to the Gauls (unless he managed to come to prominence during a campaign on Gaul).

[Jovos2099]

im bringing this back because i think a world with a roman superman would look something like the world depicted in this book https://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Wicke...dp/0994384092/ rapid technological advancement industrial revolution to the introduction of kryptonian technology what does everyone else think?

[Lokimaru]

Superman as Emperor or King could work but between Red Son (well-intentioned dictator) and Injustice (evil dictator) we have a lot of themes covered. Having a truly liberal (in the sense of power) Superman ruling would be interesting but there needs to be some conflict there.

I've already explained that Injustice Superman is just a victim of circumstance and not Evil. Evil happens when Good men Do nothing like what Bruce does, Clark was actually trying to DO something about the state of the world when he could have just as easily said **** It and let us go back to killing ourselves. Bruce Jumped the Gun, this has been shown over and over again in that story. Hell he'll let Human criminals get away with unspeakable Horrors yet he tried to stop Superman before he had even started doing anything HE deemed wrong.