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Thread: Savage Dragon.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumpusMagoo View Post
    There's some cultural truths in that.

    I've had some time to think of this, and part of the problem is how these things are rated in comics. In movies there's a designation between R and NC 17 or NR. So when I saw the first Deadpool movie, it was violent and had sex stuff, but I didn't expect to see genitals or a full screen money shot (ala porn). But in comics, an M rating appears to cover all bases, from soft core cheesecake, to full frontal nudity and body fluids.
    I thought he was referring to the part that the most violent gore can get shown on daytime TV while the side of a butt cheek causes the censors to have a heart attack.

  2. #62
    Mighty Member Dark-Flux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFP View Post
    Actually, no one is entitled to consume kiddie porn in the United States. That stuff will get you jailed, put on the sex offender list, and socially ostracized.
    He said; 'excluding.'
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Flux View Post
    He said; 'excluding.'
    My bad. Can't believe I missed that 3 syllable word right there.

  4. #64
    Incredible Member icctrombone's Avatar
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    I have every issue from the original mini to # 224 of the main series, I dropped the book at that point. I love Savage Dragon but I got tired of the Trump bashing. I know he hates him but it gets tiring after a while.

  5. #65
    Incredible Member RumpusMagoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFP View Post
    I thought he was referring to the part that the most violent gore can get shown on daytime TV while the side of a butt cheek causes the censors to have a heart attack.
    I can't speak to that, since I don't watch daytime TV nowadays. Do they still make soap operas?

  6. #66
    Incredible Member RumpusMagoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icctrombone View Post
    I have every issue from the original mini to # 224 of the main series, I dropped the book at that point. I love Savage Dragon but I got tired of the Trump bashing. I know he hates him but it gets tiring after a while.
    Ok, two thoughts on this:
    1) You obviously know that Larsen's politics are left-of-center. So what did you think about that issue where Dragon punched Bush in the face? (Just curious)
    2) I read the letters in SD from that guy in Kentucky(?) who said he would stop reading for the same reasons, and it got me thinking; How would I (as a liberal) react if he did an issue of Hilary saying "Kill them all" or punching Obama in the face? I probably would not get so angry I would stop reading, but it would tick me off and interfere with my enjoyment of the story. So in the spirit of intellectual honesty, I can't really criticize you for your decision (despite having what I assume are different politics). Especially when I've just posted that I was dropping the book for different reasons.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumpusMagoo View Post
    I can't speak to that, since I don't watch daytime TV nowadays. Do they still make soap operas?
    It was just an example.

    It's mainly about how violence in the media is okay; but sex and nudity isn't, in America.

    Back when Blockbuster was still around, the most violent Stallone or Segal movie would get center attention near a new kid's movie. But Shannon Tweed's latest erotic thriller got shoved in the back like it was a radioactive waste.

    In America, many parents won't object to their kids watching the most violent movies out there. But a woman in a too skimpy bikini is a definite no-no. I was 10 years old when Pulp Fiction came out. When I was 12, I was one of the few kids who hadn't seen it. No one blinked at the sight of elementary school kids with Pulp Fiction t-shirts. But man-oh-man, when I was 18, a t-shirt like this got a call from my parents and principal said I wouldn't be allowed to be in school with this shirt.

    https://www.spreadshirt.com/red+hot+...rts-A108125274

    I kid you not. When I was 18, a senior, I wore a shirt like the one in the link above and I didn't even get to first period before I was pulled into the principal's office and had a talk with the principle, the vice, and a few other teachers about how my shirt was inappropriate. While at the same time there were kids in elementary and high school wearing t-shirts like the Pulp Fiction shirt with Samuel L. Jackson and Travolta pointing guns.

    But that's America for you. Still hasn't moved past the 17th century view of sex. While the "progressive" views regarding guns and violence are the source behind so many gun massacres and street violence.

  8. #68
    Incredible Member RumpusMagoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFP View Post
    It was just an example.

    It's mainly about how violence in the media is okay; but sex and nudity isn't, in America.

    Back when Blockbuster was still around, the most violent Stallone or Segal movie would get center attention near a new kid's movie. But Shannon Tweed's latest erotic thriller got shoved in the back like it was a radioactive waste.

    In America, many parents won't object to their kids watching the most violent movies out there. But a woman in a too skimpy bikini is a definite no-no. I was 10 years old when Pulp Fiction came out. When I was 12, I was one of the few kids who hadn't seen it. No one blinked at the sight of elementary school kids with Pulp Fiction t-shirts. But man-oh-man, when I was 18, a t-shirt like this got a call from my parents and principal said I wouldn't be allowed to be in school with this shirt.

    https://www.spreadshirt.com/red+hot+...rts-A108125274

    I kid you not. When I was 18, a senior, I wore a shirt like the one in the link above and I didn't even get to first period before I was pulled into the principal's office and had a talk with the principle, the vice, and a few other teachers about how my shirt was inappropriate. While at the same time there were kids in elementary and high school wearing t-shirts like the Pulp Fiction shirt with Samuel L. Jackson and Travolta pointing guns.

    But that's America for you. Still hasn't moved past the 17th century view of sex. While the "progressive" views regarding guns and violence are the source behind so many gun massacres and street violence.
    I do see your point, and it is true. If I had my say, "The Passion of the Christ" probably would have earned an NC-17 rating, but I heard of whole families going to the theater to watch it.

    Back to the Dragon book, I think that part of the issue was that I was not expecting something quite that explicit in the issue. It makes a difference for me if I am prepared for something like that or not. For example, I did not have a huge issue with the sex in "Y Tu Mama Tambien" or "Blue is the Warmest Color" because I was aware that those movies would be explicit like that. Explicit sex in superhero comics seems really weird to me, unless I'm reading something like Watchmen. I guess I'm just more used to extreme violence in comics, since all comics (including T rated ones) have become more violent overall.

  9. #69
    Incredible Member icctrombone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumpusMagoo View Post
    Ok, two thoughts on this:
    1) You obviously know that Larsen's politics are left-of-center. So what did you think about that issue where Dragon punched Bush in the face? (Just curious)
    2) I read the letters in SD from that guy in Kentucky(?) who said he would stop reading for the same reasons, and it got me thinking; How would I (as a liberal) react if he did an issue of Hilary saying "Kill them all" or punching Obama in the face? I probably would not get so angry I would stop reading, but it would tick me off and interfere with my enjoyment of the story. So in the spirit of intellectual honesty, I can't really criticize you for your decision (despite having what I assume are different politics). Especially when I've just posted that I was dropping the book for different reasons.
    If it was a one off like the Bush assault, I could just ignore it and enjoy the book, But I find the constant mention of the President to be something that takes me out of the story. Larsen has one of the most unpredictable super hero books out there, he's making the book a lesser product by letting his hate ruin the storytelling.

  10. #70
    Incredible Member RumpusMagoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icctrombone View Post
    If it was a one off like the Bush assault, I could just ignore it and enjoy the book, But I find the constant mention of the President to be something that takes me out of the story. Larsen has one of the most unpredictable super hero books out there, he's making the book a lesser product by letting his hate ruin the storytelling.
    Okay. I can respect that. Every reader has individual ideas about where the line is, and when an artist crosses it. Obviously, a line was crossed here for you.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumpusMagoo View Post
    I do see your point, and it is true. If I had my say, "The Passion of the Christ" probably would have earned an NC-17 rating, but I heard of whole families going to the theater to watch it.

    Back to the Dragon book, I think that part of the issue was that I was not expecting something quite that explicit in the issue. It makes a difference for me if I am prepared for something like that or not. For example, I did not have a huge issue with the sex in "Y Tu Mama Tambien" or "Blue is the Warmest Color" because I was aware that those movies would be explicit like that. Explicit sex in superhero comics seems really weird to me, unless I'm reading something like Watchmen. I guess I'm just more used to extreme violence in comics, since all comics (including T rated ones) have become more violent overall.
    Were you turned off by that one sex scene? Or was all the nudity and sex in general a turnoff?

    I've checked other peoples' reactions and many seem to be turned off by the sex and nudity in general. I remember a scene with Batman and Catwoman having sex got people riled up. Link below:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=batm...leZscvsDfY0_M:

    And it didn't even show them having sex. It merely showed the first seconds and the afterglow.

    People were livid over that being too explicit.

    Batman causes a man to shoot his balls off and people are like, "Right on, Batman."

    3429324-1058031151-_Batma.jpg

    Creators show Batman getting laid and fanboys squeal, "How could they show Batman doing such a thing?"

    c1 (1).jpg

  12. #72
    Incredible Member icctrombone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie Blade View Post
    It indeed is a matter of opinion whether gore or extreme sex is more repellent. To me neither is



    Perhaps starving artists should consider such foul path of catering to the whims of the audience. Every other should create what the hell they like.
    I'm guessing that Erik is doing fine financially, I hope he is. But if the book starts to lose money it would be beyond stubborn to continue doing that doesn't sell. If he's selling 5k and it drops to 2K, then the comic buyers are voting with their wallets. That's something every businessman has to respect. Again, I have all of the SD run until #225, so I'm a big fan.

  13. #73
    Incredible Member RumpusMagoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFP View Post
    Were you turned off by that one sex scene? Or was all the nudity and sex in general a turnoff?

    I've checked other peoples' reactions and many seem to be turned off by the sex and nudity in general. I remember a scene with Batman and Catwoman having sex got people riled up. Link below:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=batm...leZscvsDfY0_M:

    And it didn't even show them having sex. It merely showed the first seconds and the afterglow.

    People were livid over that being too explicit.

    Batman causes a man to shoot his balls off and people are like, "Right on, Batman."

    3429324-1058031151-_Batma.jpg

    Creators show Batman getting laid and fanboys squeal, "How could they show Batman doing such a thing?"

    c1 (1).jpg
    I think that scene in particular, plus the full-frontal nudity in issue 230 pretty much broke me. That seemed like something new for this book, and I just wasn’t on board. I can’t speak to the Batman examples because I don’t read that book.

  14. #74
    Incredible Member icctrombone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumpusMagoo View Post
    I think that scene in particular, plus the full-frontal nudity in issue 230 pretty much broke me. That seemed like something new for this book, and I just wasn’t on board. I can’t speak to the Batman examples because I don’t read that book.
    I jumped off right before the fluid scenes in the SD book so I can't speak to how offensive some people found it. I will say that there have been sex scenes during his run but it's mostly a page at best. It's not like an entire 22 page book is devoted to XXX. The Sex wouldn't be enough to make me drop it. And I agree with what Erik said earlier in this thread that it's all over the top fantasy stuff.

  15. #75
    Incredible Member RumpusMagoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icctrombone View Post
    I jumped off right before the fluid scenes in the SD book so I can't speak to how offensive some people found it. I will say that there have been sex scenes during his run but it's mostly a page at best. It's not like an entire 22 page book is devoted to XXX. The Sex wouldn't be enough to make me drop it. And I agree with what Erik said earlier in this thread that it's all over the top fantasy stuff.
    You should go on SCANS daily and check out that scene. We’re not talking about a flash of boobs or a panel of a woman in a shower here. This is a graphic XXX scene that would warrant an adults only label. But don’t take my word for it. Google the scene and judge for yourself.

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