SPOILERS Wonder Woman in Justice League SPOILERS

[Awonder]

I’m only gonna address Wonder Woman stuff...though there’s some other stuff too. Story stuff.
*Movie would have started with Diana, and she would have been the audience entry point (which they tried to do with the history lesson.)
*More Amazons. And a longer history lesson. Also, more explanation and motivation for Steppenwolf too.
*Diana would have ultimately convinced Arthur.
*When Cyborg abandoned the Nightcrawler, Diana would have hoisted it up with the Lasso.
*(if this is to be how Superman returned) Diana and Superman would have a longer bout, more evenly matched. Some impressive Wonder Woman moves. When Clark grabs Bruce, THATS when Diana uses the Lasso, bringing Clark to his senses as Lois simultaneously shows up.
*The end fight: Diana and Superman would have spent more time double teaming Steppenwolf, more like Doomsday but with better lighting.
*Diana would be shown the glide/fly like at the end of the Wonder Woman movie. (She clearly does, to get up and down from the giant statue, but I wish we saw it.)
*Diana would not drink the damn whiskey. And would have worn the Cloak a little longer.

That’s off the top of my head. Might have more after seeing it again tonight. But none of this takes away from my enjoyment. But it’s no Wonder Woman. Not even close. It’s a fun movie to watch though, and so much more Diana!

Thanks for the reply. I like your suggestions.

[dianafan1985]

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...rg-zack-snyder - A Disastrous Justice League Sends Warner Bros. into a Panic

Hahaha, poor Warner Bros thought all they had to do in order to make Justice League successful was to make Superman look good at the expense of their other characters. Too bad Superman's biceps and hairy chest couldn't carry them out of this latrine that they have happily dug themselves into .

[Sacred Knight]

This is going overboard now. JL disappointed for a whole host of reasons, not because of one or two scenes. Furthermore you're still conveniently ignoring the fact that one of the bright spots of the movie is still considered to be Superman. This lackluster reception overall was in the making for years. It was always going to be an uphill climb after the hole they dug with BvS. Its one thing to have issues with a scene, its another to try and push a misinformed narrative as to what caused this film to not perform up to snuff. I'm sorry but that scene could have been filmed with a conclusion of Diana punching Clark in the face and knocking him out and the movie overall still would have disappointed critically and financially. Wonder Woman could have gotten the killshot in on Steppenwolf and the film still would have disappointed critically and financially. This isn't all about Wonder Woman.

[Vworp Vworp]

Furthermore you're still conveniently ignoring the fact that one of the bright spots of the movie is still considered to be Superman...

...By Superman fans. And maybe a few people who prefer Wonder Woman when she's strictly second fiddle to him. Or when she's his trophy girlfriend.

This isn't all about Wonder Woman.

Like it ever would be if Superman's around, right?

[Sacred Knight]

Whatever keeps the vitriol flowing I guess, but in reality, no, not just by Superman fans. Its been a pretty common critical praise across the board in a film that's pretty wont for it.

[SiegePerilous02]

Whatever keeps the vitriol flowing I guess, but in reality, no, not just by Superman fans. Its been a pretty common critical praise across the board in a film that's pretty wont for it.

There's also the fact that when MoS came out, it was going to be the start of a Superman trilogy, until it was decided to rush into a shared universe. Even though BvS and JL were cited as being direct sequels to MoS as a trilogy and Superman would still allegedly be the main character (as the only constant with arc running through the trilogy), Superman still got a large chunk of his screen time cut from the theatrical release. Before getting the crap kicked out of him by Batman and then dying. Wonder Woman meanwhile got to be the show stealing guest star and the only universally praised element of the movie. And then she got her awesome spin-off film, the only film so far to be accepted by audiences and critics alike. She is the only one guaranteed a sequel and possibly a trilogy, and I can almost guarantee she isn't going to have to share it with anyone the way Superman ended up having to. Meanwhile, even if Superman was praised by audiences in this go around, he still spent 2/3 of the movie dead, a proper solo sequel for Cavill is still up in the air and the horrible CGI on Cavill's face undermined the otherwise good scenes and became a meme.

Comparatively speaking, as far as the DCEU is concerned, Wonder Woman fans are pretty spoiled right now. Especially if this one scene that lasts a few minutes at most is all we can find to complain about to kill the time as we wait for her highly anticipated sequel directed by TIME Magazine Person of the Year nominee Patty Jenkins.

[Lightning Rider]

I'm very late but I just want to say I was pleasantly surprised with the development carrying over from Wonder Woman and the conflict she had with Batman (as well as the resolution). I think Batman saying that she's also just as inspiring and incredible was important, as was her having some sort of hesitance that stopped her from being that kind of public symbol. It was one of the strongest and most satisfying elements of the movie for me.

[Awonder]

Whatever keeps the vitriol flowing I guess, but in reality, no, not just by Superman fans. Its been a pretty common critical praise across the board in a film that's pretty wont for it.

Aren't you part of that "vitriol" by the Superman fans saying 'We Superman fans deserve this, who cares about the rest!?!'

But, I guess all that critical praise for Superman wasn't enough to carry the movie to success. Perhaps, a better strategy might have been to show ALL of the JL in a better light in a JL movie?

Comparatively speaking, as far as the DCEU is concerned, Wonder Woman fans are pretty spoiled right now. Especially if this one scene that lasts a few minutes at most is all we can find to complain about to kill the time as we wait for her highly anticipated sequel directed by TIME Magazine Person of the Year nominee Patty Jenkins.

Spoiled? The only reason WW is getting a sequel over the others is that Patty made a better movie that made more money. It's not like WB was planning this nor gave WW the most support. She just did more with less.

I'm very late but I just want to say I was pleasantly surprised with the development carrying over from Wonder Woman and the conflict she had with Batman (as well as the resolution). I think Batman saying that she's also just as inspiring and incredible was important, as was her having some sort of hesitance that stopped her from being that kind of public symbol. It was one of the strongest and most satisfying elements of the movie for me.

You liked that? I can't say I'm a fan of WW needing the Batman-splained permission slip to be a public inspiration.

[SiegePerilous02]

But, I guess all that critical praise for Superman wasn't enough to carry the movie to success. Perhaps, a better strategy might have been to show ALL of the JL in a better light in a JL movie?

The movie kind of sucked before Superman even showed up on screen. I'd say the crappy plotting and bad special effects did more to harm the box office than one scene.

Do you honestly think if the scene was removed or if WW won the fight, the box office would be better? The thing would still be kind of a disaster. And they arguably in hindsight shouldn't have turned a trilogy starring Superman into a gradual team up series, where either he is gonna get shortchanged or they are.

Spoiled? The only reason WW is getting a sequel over the others is that Patty made a better movie that made more money. It's not like WB was planning this nor gave WW the most support. She just did more with less.

Yes spoiled. You just said that Patty made a better movie and made more money, and we're still getting more. That's more than any of these other characters are guaranteed to get, and she's likely not losing her sequel to sharing screen time with guest stars. I don't care how you dissect the circumstances behind her film's production, in actual reality we have the best CBM to come out of the DCEU so far, and she's the only one with a bright future right now.

As far as other media is concerned, WW fans have never had it this good and it's okay to want more (some animated stuff and video games would be great), but don't act like we have it rough overall. She's fine. She's the only one who is fine. Whedon's butt shots were bad and should be avoided in the future, and losing to Superman was divisive, but she can bounce back from this far easier than everyone else is going to be able to.

[nj06]

Do we know how many Amazons exist on the island? Was a number ever mentioned?

[Koriand'r]

There's also the fact that when MoS came out, it was going to be the start of a Superman trilogy, until it was decided to rush into a shared universe. Even though BvS and JL were cited as being direct sequels to MoS as a trilogy and Superman would still allegedly be the main character (as the only constant with arc running through the trilogy), Superman still got a large chunk of his screen time cut from the theatrical release. Before getting the crap kicked out of him by Batman and then dying. Wonder Woman meanwhile got to be the show stealing guest star and the only universally praised element of the movie. And then she got her awesome spin-off film, the only film so far to be accepted by audiences and critics alike. She is the only one guaranteed a sequel and possibly a trilogy, and I can almost guarantee she isn't going to have to share it with anyone the way Superman ended up having to. Meanwhile, even if Superman was praised by audiences in this go around, he still spent 2/3 of the movie dead, a proper solo sequel for Cavill is still up in the air and the horrible CGI on Cavill's face undermined the otherwise good scenes and became a meme.

Comparatively speaking, as far as the DCEU is concerned, Wonder Woman fans are pretty spoiled right now. Especially if this one scene that lasts a few minutes at most is all we can find to complain about to kill the time as we wait for her highly anticipated sequel directed by TIME Magazine Person of the Year nominee Patty Jenkins.

All that would probably fly if we weren't getting a completely nerfed version of Wonder Woman, who doesn't.

[brettc1]

The movie kind of sucked before Superman even showed up on screen. I'd say the crappy plotting and bad special effects did more to harm the box office than one scene.

Do you honestly think if the scene was removed or if WW won the fight, the box office would be better? The thing would still be kind of a disaster. And they arguably in hindsight shouldn't have turned a trilogy starring Superman into a gradual team up series, where either he is gonna get shortchanged or they are.

Yes spoiled. You just said that Patty made a better movie and made more money, and we're still getting more. That's more than any of these other characters are guaranteed to get, and she's likely not losing her sequel to sharing screen time with guest stars. I don't care how you dissect the circumstances behind her film's production, in actual reality we have the best CBM to come out of the DCEU so far, and she's the only one with a bright future right now.

As far as other media is concerned, WW fans have never had it this good and it's okay to want more (some animated stuff and video games would be great), but don't act like we have it rough overall. She's fine. She's the only one who is fine. Whedon's butt shots were bad and should be avoided in the future, and losing to Superman was divisive, but she can bounce back from this far easier than everyone else is going to be able to.

I guess I have to agree.

The Super-fans can crow about how their guy performed in the movie, but its not a victory that WB is going to celebrate and this will be the third movie Superman has been in that has seriously under-performed.

On the flip side, yes Wonder Woman looked less impressive this time around but she is still winning the best of three match-ups.

Adding to that this year Supergirl knocked Superman clean out in her own show and yes, there is a bit of a paradigm shift underway. It's a bit disappointing that it didn't reach this movie yet, but I would rather see Wonder Woman sold short in a lackluster movie that will go down as a disappointment and then go on to be one of the leading stars of the DCEU than have Superman's cinematic fate.

I was working out at the gym yesterday and saw a motivational poster using the term "Wonder Woman". Diana's pervasive presence isn't going anywhere and it's because of the power she has brought. Superman and Batman are still a presence but based on the the last four years in the broader culture they are largely running on fumes.

[Sacred Knight]

Aren't you part of that "vitriol" by the Superman fans saying 'We Superman fans deserve this, who cares about the rest!?!'

Nyope, because I never said that. All I've ever said was that I felt Superman deserved a good showing. I never said other characters did not, and I never said I didn't care about the rest. Some here think Superman's showing hurt the other characters too much. I don't. Therefore its not mutually exclusive of me to have enjoyed Superman's showing while not caring about anyone else. Those are two separate subjective points.

But, I guess all that critical praise for Superman wasn't enough to carry the movie to success. Perhaps, a better strategy might have been to show ALL of the JL in a better light in a JL movie?

Certainly not. The results of the film are the results of the film, there's just no basis to blame Superman alone for it like a few here have. They definitely needed a better strategy. But this goes back to the early stages of MOS 2 when they decided to cut corners and set the course to jump start JL with not even a fraction of the build-up Marvel utilized. That was the start of the problems they never would recover from, not a Superman vs. Wonder Woman scorecard. The movie did poorly, I'm just an advocate for calling that out for the right reasons, not utilizing specious reasoning, making a false connection between Superman's use in this film and this film's overall failure because they're mad he, in their opinion, made her look bad in the movie.

[Awonder]

The movie kind of sucked before Superman even showed up on screen. I'd say the crappy plotting and bad special effects did more to harm the box office than one scene.

Do you honestly think if the scene was removed or if WW won the fight, the box office would be better? The thing would still be kind of a disaster. And they arguably in hindsight shouldn't have turned a trilogy starring Superman into a gradual team up series, where either he is gonna get shortchanged or they are.

I totally agree that the problems are greater than any one scene - but, that doesn't excuse the problems of any one scene either. The lack of big box office success for JL started in Man of Steel, then, made worse by BvS. It's not all bad, some of it is good, but it is messy. And, it didn't help that WB let Marvel get there first.

My point here is that there didn't have to be a set-up that "shortchanged" Superman in one movie, then used him to shortchange the rest of them. A better villain(s) could have been a better set-up allowing for more and better showings for all of the them.

Yes spoiled. You just said that Patty made a better movie and made more money, and we're still getting more. That's more than any of these other characters are guaranteed to get, and she's likely not losing her sequel to sharing screen time with guest stars. I don't care how you dissect the circumstances behind her film's production, in actual reality we have the best CBM to come out of the DCEU so far, and she's the only one with a bright future right now.

I have a really hard time watching JL and feeling spoiled as a WW fan. And, I'm not alone in that. WB failed to capitalize on the momentum the WW movie built earlier this year. The people that showed up to make WW a big success are not showing up in the same way for JL. Why? Perhaps, smashing her into the ground to make Superman look extra special wasn't the best idea?

As far as other media is concerned, WW fans have never had it this good and it's okay to want more (some animated stuff and video games would be great), but don't act like we have it rough overall. She's fine. She's the only one who is fine. Whedon's butt shots were bad and should be avoided in the future, and losing to Superman was divisive, but she can bounce back from this far easier than everyone else is going to be able to.

Wait a minute here - first, you want to tell me I'm spoiled, and you acknowledge that, even AFTER her movie's huge domestic box office, they still are not treating WW like they have other characters? GL got a bigger budget, an animated series, an animated dvd, and a video game. How many of the animated movies are about WW? How many are about Batman? Was DC's event this year about WW or Batman?

WB wasn't even planning for a WW sequel. Patty (and the crew) just hit such a monster home run that WB had to. Maybe WB won't give her the smallest budget to work with this time?

[Awonder]

No, because I never said that. All I've ever said was that Superman deserved a good showing. I never said other characters did not, and I never said I didn't care about the rest.

Do I have to dig up your quote in the Superman forum?