SPOILERS Wonder Woman in Justice League SPOILERS

[Shadowedeyes]

When a flock of noisy birds fly straight into your face, that tends to be distracting.

He could easily wide angle heat vision the birds. Or used X-Ray vision to see through them. Or just super-speeded past them. But frankly, it's a whatever for me on this point.

Means nothing. He thought he was fighting a creature that had killed him once before. He was NOT playing around. He was going for the kill with every, single, attack.

But not a creature with some of the abilities and tricks Wonder Woman did. It means one can argue he made poor tactical choices in the fight, one's he wouldn't do if he knew he was fighting Wonder Woman.

Nope. It's quite consistent. With his super-hearing, high-powered sonics are a real problem for him.

Really? I'm not going to claim to be an expert on Superman(or Wonder Woman for that matter), but I am pretty sure I've seen comics where Superman shrugs off sonic attacks pretty easily. In fact, you'd think his enemies would use them more if they were a big problem for him.

Well, making her as strong and as fast as Superman wouldn't change that either.

She's the teams magical expert, a masterful fighter, and she's powerful enough to slug it out with the biggest and baddest baddies in the DCU. If I had my way, she'd also be the teams master strategist and battlefield commander. That's enough.

I certainly agree that making her a second superman isn't going to change that. Look at Billy Batson for proof of that. I guess the issue I have is that the masterful fighter stuff always feels like talk, her magical expertise is usually limited to mythological stuff, and definitely isn't brought up when an actual magician like Dr Fate or Zatanna shows up. The Master Strategist stuff is a cool idea, but no way is DC gonna let Batman loose that title.

[Agent 86]

Wow, disappointing but highly unsurprising. She can hold her own with doomsday but gets flattened by Superman.

I didn’t say that. I don’t think Diana gets flattened by Superman. And during their single confrontation I think it’s clear that Diana is holding back. But, Superman is shown to usurp every member, including the Flash.

[Vanguard-01]

He could easily wide angle heat vision the birds. Or used X-Ray vision to see through them. Or just super-speeded past them. But frankly, it's a whatever for me on this point.

He's Superman. Superman doesn't massacre birds for annoying him.

But not a creature with some of the abilities and tricks Wonder Woman did. It means one can argue he made poor tactical choices in the fight, one's he wouldn't do if he knew he was fighting Wonder Woman.

Still irrelevant. Diana didn't use her throwing weapon until the very end of the fight. To all intents and purposes, Diana was fighting no different from Doomsday for most of that fight. He was still trying to kill her with every attack, and it wasn't enough.

Really? I'm not going to claim to be an expert on Superman(or Wonder Woman for that matter), but I am pretty sure I've seen comics where Superman shrugs off sonic attacks pretty easily. In fact, you'd think his enemies would use them more if they were a big problem for him.

I've never seen Superman shrug off a sonic attack, to my knowledge. And it IS a fairly common weapon against him. Black Canary has rung his bell in the past with the Canary Cry.

I certainly agree that making her a second superman isn't going to change that. Look at Billy Batson for proof of that. I guess the issue I have is that the masterful fighter stuff always feels like talk, her magical expertise is usually limited to mythological stuff, and definitely isn't brought up when an actual magician like Dr Fate or Zatanna shows up. The Master Strategist stuff is a cool idea, but no way is DC gonna let Batman loose that title.

She also has the diplomacy angle locked down. If only modern stories weren't so bloodthirsty, that could come into play more often.

[enish]

Oky, I've just gone back from the movies and I wanna write this while it's still fresh in my head.

Wonder Woman's portrayal as a character is spot on but when it comes to battle, it is a huge disappointment.

I had a glimmer of hope during the beggining of the tunnel fight when she swoops in against a parademon (it almost felt like she was flying) and right after that she leapt hard at Steppenwolf and through the wall.

Other than that, both she and the Amazons were shown almost as incompetent against their foes.

During the Superman vs The League battle, with her sword she slits the Superman statue head that Kal just threw at her, then she lassoes him and he manages to catch it and he pulls her hard towards him and Diana is struggling to hold her own while Superman was showing no sign of struggle. It's a tug of war that she loses. Then she tries to use the power of the lasso on him to make him remember who he is, it almost feels like it's working but it fails.

Then Superman holds both Aquaman and Diana by the throat while Cyborg tries to do whatever-he-was-trying-to-do and he sends them away. He throws Aquaman away, slams Diana on the floor and gets rid of Cyborg. The Flash actually has a better showing in the fight against Supes, as he successfully manages to avoid his punches while all the other lay on the ground useless.

Then Superman sees Batman. Wonder Woman leaps in between and says something like "Please don't make me do this!".
Then she's about to charge her power wave thing and as her bracelets light up, Superman block her hands and pulls her arms open. That's when a sort of arm wrestling contest starts as Diana struggles to hold her own and he headbutts her, which creates a shockwave. It actually hurts Diana and she headbutts him too, creating another localized shockwave. Supes is kinda shook. Finally, he charges an ultimate headbutt which sends Diana hard on the floor, creating a crater.

It's definetely letdown in terms of showings for Diana.

Now, with the actual final battle. Diana is shown as incompetent as the others against Steppenwolf. She does an alternate move with her power wave thing where she slams her bracelet onto the shield, and right before the explosion happens, you can see a spark of lightning and this creates a localized explosion which destroys the bridge upon where SW, Aquaman and she are.

She does lasso SW to pull him away from Cyborg but struggles in doing so, so much that Aquaman has to come and help her pull. They both get thrown around like they are nothing but Wonder Woman gets to save Aquaman from huge falling debris, by leaping fast towards him and protecting him with her shield. Then Superman arrives, and he just basically punches SW around like he his nothing, completely rendering both Aquaman and WW useless and incompetent. She lways used her sword, shr never got to punch SteppenWolf while even Aquaman was able to land a hit on hum that sent him flying in the air.

Let me tell you that I was really disappointed and pissed off by that. A huge let down from the Wonder Woman solo movie where she seemed to be a serious powerhouse, battling a god on her own and winning effortlessly.

They made it clear that Superman is the most powerful of them all and that the others are basically useless. He can even go as fast as the flash without effort!

This left a bitter taste in my appreciation of the movie, it felt like a fan service to Superman fans and you are left wondering: Why need the Justice League when you have Superman?

[richalex]

Sooo....Only look at this if you want spoilers.......And you better do it quickly before it's gone. And...it kinda pisses me off.


https://vimeo.com/242994218

[Sacred Knight]

Okay....

I don't see a thing wrong with that.

One, to tackle Flash really quick, he's not faster than Barry. Kal can keep up to a degree. Which in of itself is completely foreign to Barry but he's still faster. This is quite accurate. We know Barry is still faster because he's still dodging Clark's attacks. Hell he's not even hit once. The one contact they have is when Barry himself initiates contact by trying to shove Clark and only himself gets pushed back.

As for Wonder Woman, she takes a few hits, but they seem to do virtually nothing to do her. All this proves is he can win in a tug of war and an arm wrestling contest (stopping her bracelets) in a situation in which she is very much not trying to harm him, just contain him.

Literally the only questionable things I see coming out of that is what reason the lasso wouldn't work (I mean obviously its emotional convenience because plot-wise Lois has to do it, but no narrative reason why is kinda weak), and the convenience of keeping Arthur and Cyborg from really joining back in (if anything they get a shorter end of the stick for not really showing up back on camera after the first melee), and Bruce hitting a car hard enough to dent it...yeah that's going to break many bones if not outright kill a guy. Beyond that though the fight was fine.

I don't see anything that should piss off a Wonder Woman fan outside of wanting uneven spotlight, quite frankly (I haven't seen the Steppenwolf fight so I can't speak for that yet). She gets hit a few times but with no damage to show for it. She just doesn't do anything to Superman in kind (though he does sell the headbutt the same as she does, they look like it hurt a little bit then they shake it off). Could they have had her knock him down once for meaningless point-count purposes? Sure. But padding points (I knocked you down this many times!) is all it woudl have accomplished. The same thing would have been put across: that neither does any damage to the other. Considering all that PLUS the fact that this is Superman's first scene? Not seeing the complaint.

[Shadowedeyes]

He's Superman. Superman doesn't massacre birds for annoying him.

Sure. I still offered 2 other ways to basically ignore the birds without hurting them.

Still irrelevant. Diana didn't use her throwing weapon until the very end of the fight. To all intents and purposes, Diana was fighting no different from Doomsday for most of that fight. He was still trying to kill her with every attack, and it wasn't enough.

Well, sure, he didn't kill her. But I'd be hard pressed to say that she was ever in a winning position until the end however. In fact, she didn't really do any lasting damage I can remember until then, while Superman easily shattered her wrist and burned down to her bone with heat vision.

I've never seen Superman shrug off a sonic attack, to my knowledge. And it IS a fairly common weapon against him. Black Canary has rung his bell in the past with the Canary Cry.

Honestly, I couldn't name you a story where he did. Still seems like villians would use that more often against him. But hey, cool, that showed Wonder Woman doing a clever tactical thing then.

She also has the diplomacy angle locked down. If only modern stories weren't so bloodthirsty, that could come into play more often.

I actually completely agree with this. Sadly, most readers don't tend to find that interesting it seems.

[Vanguard-01]

Sooo....Only look at this if you want spoilers.......And you better do it quickly before it's gone. And...it kinda pisses me off.


https://vimeo.com/242994218

I watched. Nothing about that disrespects Diana or Flash.

The Lasso probably WAS working. Just because Clark saw the truth doesn't mean he just stops fighting these people who (in his mind) attacked him first. The headbutt exchange? Eh. Superman IS stronger than her and again, she was obviously holding back. He wasn't. None of that makes her look weak or incompetent.

He's definitely NOT faster than Flash. The mere fact that Barry was able to stay away from him throughout multiple attacks proves that. Flash is just slightly faster than Supes, and let's not forget that Barry's speed tends to increase over time.

Now Batman? Yeah, he should've been in the hospital after that shove.

[Vanguard-01]

Sure. I still offered 2 other ways to basically ignore the birds without hurting them.

And he probably used one of them. The birds didn't distract him for more than a few seconds, after all.

Well, sure, he didn't kill her. But I'd be hard pressed to say that she was ever in a winning position until the end however. In fact, she didn't really do any lasting damage I can remember until then, while Superman easily shattered her wrist and burned down to her bone with heat vision.

She matched him blow-for-blow and effectively defended herself against his offense. The fact that he hurt her just proves that he's stronger and more powerful. She was still able to use her skills to counteract those attacks and she stayed alive long enough to mount an effective series of counterattacks.

End of the day? She won. He didn't. If you and I get into a sword fight and you manage to cut me half a dozen times, but I still stab my sword through your heart at the end, I still won.

Honestly, I couldn't name you a story where he did. Still seems like villians would use that more often against him. But hey, cool, that showed Wonder Woman doing a clever tactical thing then.

Villains DO use sonics on him. A fair bit, honestly. At least the ones who don't regularly have access to Kryptonite or magic. Luthor has used them, though he tends to prefer Kryptonite.

[enish]

The best melee fighter in the world would have been able to get out of Superman's hold with ease. I expect someone with Diana's experience in battle to at least be able to do that, you know, with self defense moves. If you add her godlike abilities, she should not have been that easy to defeat for Superman. Even if she loses her weapons, she is supposed to be able to do just fine without them.

I think that's a huge disrespect for the character. I do no buy DCEU WW as a powerhouse after that fight.

[richalex]

The best melee fighter in the world would have been able to get out of Superman's hold with ease. I expect someone with Diana's experience in battle to at least be able to do that, you know, with self defense move. If you add her godlike abilities, she should not have been that easy to defeat for Superman. Even if she loses her weapon, she is supposed to be able to do just fine without them.

I think that's a huge disrespect for the character. I do no buy DCEU WW as a powerhouse after that fight.

I agree. She should have been shown fighting him off like Faora did in MOS. I don't like this at all. Even if he beats her, because she doesn't want to hurt him, she should have been shown putting up more of a fight than that. Heck, Arthur and Vic should have as well. This scene should have been epic, and not look like he can just walk through the League as if they are paper. Whats the point if even combined they cannot restrain/stop him? Isn't that the point of The League?

[Guy_McNichts]

Sooo....Only look at this if you want spoilers.......And you better do it quickly before it's gone. And...it kinda pisses me off.
https://vimeo.com/242994218

Ehhhh...not great, but not as bad as I feared. I suppose it does come across Diana's fighting to stall as opposed to win, so there's that.

Then Superman arrives, and he just basically punches SW around like he his nothing

This, I'm tempted to cal BS on. When you have the League spend the entire movie struggling against one guy, then have Superman dominate said villain alone...way to p**s all over the whole concept of a Justice League.





Can we just skip to Wonder Woman 2? The DCEU makes me tired.

[Sacred Knight]

The best melee fighter in the world would have been able to get out of Superman's hold with ease. I expect someone with Diana's experience in battle to at least be able to do that, you know, with self defense move. If you add her godlike abilities, she should not have been that easy to defeat for Superman. Even if she loses her weapon, she is supposed to be able to do just fine without them.

I think that's a huge disrespect for the character. I do no buy DCEU WW as a powerhouse after that fight.

She does do just fine without them. She doesn't have a scratch on her unless the aftermath shows otherwise. She wasn't defeated, Lois just ended things by getting through to him. THAT ended the fight. The worst thing that happened to Wonder Woman out of all this is that she probably has dust on her from the concrete. Realistically only Cyborg, Aquaman, and Batman were genuinely taken out of the fight. Batman obviously makes all the sense in the world. But if anything Cyborg and Aquaman fans would have more of a gripe here than anyone else. Diana and Flash did fine.

[Vanguard-01]

The best melee fighter in the world would have been able to get out of Superman's hold with ease. I expect someone with Diana's experience in battle to at least be able to do that, you know, with self defense move. If you add her godlike abilities, she should not have been that easy to defeat for Superman. Even if she loses her weapon, she is supposed to be able to do just fine without them.

I think that's a huge disrespect for the character. I do no buy DCEU WW as a powerhouse after that fight.

She doesn't "lose" to him. Not from what I just saw. He knocked her down and then he went to go after Batman. Diana was clearly still conscious and would've likely rejoined the fight had it been necessary.

As for escaping that hold? That's not an easy hold to escape. And once again? She wasn't fighting him in a battle for dominance. She was trying to reason with him and get him to see she wasn't his enemy. The whole fight got started because Cyborg fired at him. A more passive stance is more likely to defuse the situation than just barreling into him and unloading her full power on him. It's quite possible she COULD have escaped that hold, but she decided she'd rather make eye contact and try to get through to him instead.

And you don't buy Diana as a powerhouse? So Doomsday doesn't count? Ares doesn't count? Diana is powerful. She was hampered here by being unwilling to commit to a full-on assault upon the guy with whom she's trying to reason. Nothing more.

Oh, and then there's that whole thing where you can just write it off as "The Mother Box may have supercharged him." Unless the movie specifically contradicts that, then that's another perfectly valid explanation.

[richalex]

She doesn't "lose" to him. Not from what I just saw. He knocked her down and then he went to go after Batman. Diana was clearly still conscious and would've likely rejoined the fight had it been necessary.

As for escaping that hold? That's not an easy hold to escape. And once again? She wasn't fighting him in a battle for dominance. She was trying to reason with him and get him to see she wasn't his enemy. The whole fight got started because Cyborg fired at him. A more passive stance is more likely to defuse the situation than just barreling into him and unloading her full power on him. It's quite possible she COULD have escaped that hold, but she decided she'd rather make eye contact and try to get through to him instead.

And you don't buy Diana as a powerhouse? So Doomsday doesn't count? Ares doesn't count? Diana is powerful. She was hampered here by being unwilling to commit to a full-on assault upon the guy with whom she's trying to reason. Nothing more.

Nah, i'm not buying it. When he grabs her arms the last time and lifts her in the air, she could have kicked at him or anything to try to get him off of her, instead of just dangling there like string. Do I think he could have beaten her, especially with her not trying to maim him, sure, but she should have been shown putting up more of a fight than that. She's the [Geoff Johns] "Greatest fighter in the DCU" [Geoff Johns] and that is not what we were shown. She's fought monsters from other worlds before, her words. She should know how to fight to restrain and not kill, we didn't get that at all.