SPOILERS Wonder Woman in Justice League SPOILERS

[Natamaxxx]

It's like in the comics, Superman is the most powerful overall, with each having their strengths.

Superman is the strongest and a rival to Flash.
Wonder Woman is the best fighter and a leader in battle.
Batman is the best tactician and strength/weakness analyser.

What is it with all the discussions relating to how strong Wonder Woman is compared to Superman on this forum? He's the physically most impressive being, and that's his entire point since the conception.

If she's as strong/fast as him and the best fighter and also armed with unbreakable bracelets and magical lasso and unstoppable sword, what's the point? Might as well also give her a GL ring and utility belt.

Well, it's a nice change of pace from endlessly discussing her origin. See: every other thread on this forum.

[enish]

Oh, and then there's that whole thing where you can just write it off as "The Mother Box may have supercharged him." Unless the movie specifically contradicts that, then that's another perfectly valid explanation.

Nothing in the whole movie indicates that Superman has been supercharged by the Mother Box, so...

[enish]

As for escaping that hold? That's not an easy hold to escape. And once again? She wasn't fighting him in a battle for dominance. She was trying to reason with him and get him to see she wasn't his enemy. The whole fight got started because Cyborg fired at him. A more passive stance is more likely to defuse the situation than just barreling into him and unloading her full power on him. It's quite possible she COULD have escaped that hold, but she decided she'd rather make eye contact and try to get through to him instead.
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You do realize that she was charging her power wave move right? After saying "please don't make me do this". A power wave she used against Doomsday, Ares and SW. That ability is not for restraining, it has a more offensive use, if not lethal.

[Vanguard-01]

Nah, i'm not buying it. When he grabs her arms the last time and lifts her in the air, she could have kicked at him or anything to try to get him off of her, instead of just dangling there like string. Do I think he could have beaten her, especially with her not trying to maim him, sure, but she should have been shown putting up more of a fight than that. She's the [Geoff Johns] "Greatest fighter in the DCU" [Geoff Johns] and that is not what we were shown. She's fought monsters from other worlds before, her words. She should know how to fight to restrain and not kill, we didn't get that at all.

She wasn't trying to kick his ass. She was trying to reason with him. You don't win people's trust by kicking them in the face.

[Vanguard-01]

Nothing in the whole movie indicates that Superman has been supercharged by the Mother Box, so...

Does anything specifically refute it? No? Then it's a valid explanation.

You do realize that she was charging her power wave move right? After saying "please don't make me do this". A power wave she used against Doomsday, Ares and SW. That ability is not for restraining, it has a more offensive use, if not lethal.

Nope. We've never seen that wave do anything other than knock people back. It didn't do serious harm to Doomsday? It wouldn't do serious harm to Superman. She was preparing to knock him away from her in self defense. She still wasn't trying to beat him down and prove to all the world that she was stronger than him, or whatever you seem to think should've been the purpose of that scene.

[enish]

And Superman is supposed to be vulnerable to magic right?

How the heck was he able to hold his own against the power of the lasso?

I fee like this movie serves as an excuse to discredit the whole members of the league in favor of Superma.

Look, we have super powered people, but they are not powerful enough. Only Superman can save us all! We have to bring him in! And as soon as he arrives, then it's all over for the big bad. Superman saved the day while all the others struggled.

[enish]

Does anything specifically refute it? No? Then it's a valid explanation.



Nope. We've never seen that wave do anything other than knock people back. It didn't do serious harm to Doomsday? It wouldn't do serious harm to Superman. She was preparing to knock him away from her in self defense. She still wasn't trying to beat him down and prove to all the world that she was stronger than him, or whatever you seem to think should've been the purpose of that scene.

Then it is a power that is useless, at the end right?

[Vanguard-01]

Then it is a power that is useless, at the end right?

Did it knock back Doomsday? Then nope! Plenty useful. So is the energy shield and the ability to throw energy attacks back at their users.

[Agent 86]

What we are getting is a stronger version of Xena that has lost the power of flight and apparently can beat a god, Ares, but gets trounced by Steppenwolf. I am not sure we are getting the necessarily skilled fighter part since I have seen no evidence that she is any better at fighting than Batman or any other street fighter superhero. If she had no powers, would she be the most skillful of the street fighters, or is it just lip service?

They definitely need to convey her superior skills at fighting by being more unique than what we have seen on screen. Batman certainly did his part in the BvS movie in the warehouse scene.

Firstly, Xena: Warrior Princess is awesome. Let's just all agree to love Xena AND Wonder Woman (and Supergirl) without constantly pitting them against one another.

Secondly, Diana does not get trounced by SW (or anyone else, including Superman).

I don't think the action scenes were great for ANY of the characters. They were more clearly shot and easier to follow than the mess in DoJ, but unfortunately no-one really gets to highlight their special, unique skills. It was all quite ... formulaic for me when it came to the action. I definitely hope that they convey Diana's superior combat skills in future films. I especially want to see more unique, interesting and dynamic uses of the lasso which unfortunately wasn't used as well in Justice League as it was in Diana's solo film.

[Vanguard-01]

And Superman is supposed to be vulnerable to magic right?

In most universes? Yes. In the DCEU? Hasn't been established yet. And frankly, that's one of his dumbest weaknesses, so I have no problem if they leave that one alone.

How the heck was he able to hold his own against the power of the lasso?

Who's to say he did? Does the DCEU Lasso paralyze people or something? Hasn't been established. At that moment, it was just a rope around one of his arms.

The Lasso may very well have shown him the truth. Doesn't mean he instantly accepts it. Guy just came back from the dead! Stands to reason he'd be a little out of it, ya know?

I fee like this movie serves as an excuse to discredit the whole members of the league in favor of Superma.

Nope. This was just his movie in which to shine. Just like there are entire Justice League stories out there in which he was fundamentally useless and another Leaguer was far more important.

You don't build a franchise by taking a big, steaming dump on every other character within it.

Look, we have super powered people, but they are not powerful enough. Only Superman can save us all! We have to bring him in! And as soon as he arrives, then it's all over for the big bad. Superman saved the day while all the others struggled.

He's the most powerful hero of them all. He earned that title across decades of stories. He's also a symbol of hope and the whole point was that the world needed that hope. Of course they made sure his return reflected that point.

[richalex]

She wasn't trying to kick his ass. She was trying to reason with him. You don't win people's trust by kicking them in the face.

Diana is a trained warrior... Period. She saw after he casually threw everyone around and the lasso didn't work, don't get me started on that, she should have been fighting to put him down. She knows better than everyone when it is the time to do that. Again I don't have a problem with him beating her, I have a problem with how they showed this ageless warrior fighting. She was not fighting smart. Hell Doomsday knocked her city blocks and she was right back up. Why did she not use those legs that can put her blocks in the air.

[enish]

Secondly, Diana does not get trounced by SW (or anyone else, including Superman).

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Was Diana as efficient as Superman against SW? NO.

Was Diana able to land blows on SW the way Superman did? NO

Was Diana able to avoid SW blows the way Superman did? NO.

She was able to cut him just once, and to bounce him off with her power wave move after Aquaman threw him with his weapon. But she did not stand out as being particularly efficient against him. I would have expected more since SW seemed to care about her having the blood of the old gods in her, I thought maybe she would be instrumental to his defeat given her nature. But no. There's no follow up to that. It's all about SUPERMAN.

I'm done with the DCEU for now, until Wonder Woman II comes out. But I doubt there'll be any improvement in the power department since the movies is supposedly set in the 80's.
100 years in the world of man, and she is not even as skilled as Faora against Kal-El. What a bummer.

[Vanguard-01]

Diana is a trained warrior... Period. She saw after he casually threw everyone around and the lasso didn't work, don't get me started on that, she should have been fighting to put him down. She knows better than everyone when it is the time to do that. Again I don't have a problem with him beating her, I have a problem with how they showed this ageless warrior fighting. She was not fighting smart. Hell Doomsday knocked her city blocks and she was right back up. Why did she not use those legs that can put her blocks in the air.

"Putting him down" does not teach him to trust her. Also? A full-blown conflict between them? You DO see they're in the middle of Metropolis, right? Do we REALLY want a recap of MOS? Diana decided to err on the side of caution in order to de-escalate the situation before it spirals out of control.

[Agent 86]

They made it clear that Superman is the most powerful of them all and that the others are basically useless. He can even go as fast as the flash without effort!

This left a bitter taste in my appreciation of the movie, it felt like a fan service to Superman fans and you are left wondering: Why need the Justice League when you have Superman?

I think everyone is going to have a different opinion on this, but that's just the way most team-ups work. Heck, Scarlett Witch should have been able to trounce everyone in Civil War, including Vision, but we got a long fight scene instead. Every time superheroes team up, some are weakened and some are strengthened to serve the needs of the plot.

I wouldn't say that Superman could do everything to save the day. They needed Cyborg for ... Cyborg technological reasons. They needed at least Wonder Woman to keep Steppenwolf busy / distracted long enough for Cyborg to do this thing and then for Superman to pull the three Mother Boxes apart. IF Wonder Woman hadn't been there, then Superman would have been battling SW and no one would have been around to help Cyborg. If Cyborg wasn't there, then Superman theoretically wouldn't have known what to do, other than hitting, heat visioning or freezing the Mother Boxes (which would only have worked if the script said it did).

I think there are some positives in her portrayal - no matter who she was battling, Wonder Woman never tired, never got injured (e.g. bruised or bloody) and never gave up. Diana is apparently incredibly durable. Maybe she doesn't have Superman's brute strength, but she's gosh darn durable and that, combined with her combat skill set, serves her well. Maybe Superman could finish a fight faster, but I think Wonder Woman would still get the job done - it may just take a little longer.

I think, at a certain point, everyone needs to try to focus on the positives instead of all of the negatives. I can't believe that Cyborg fans are particularly happy with his showing in this film - he barely got to do anything physical. The Flash was shown to be quite the buffoon and a complete beginner (which I personally liked, but Flash fans may be furious about). I thought Aquaman's scenes were quite dull and he's basically just a "strong man" since they were fighting SW on land and Aquaman couldn't do any cool water / fish related stuff. Even Batman's detective skills have to take the back seat to Cyborg being given the opportunity to find SW. And Cyborg can apparently pilot all of Batman's toys better than Batman, even though they were designed and built by Batman.

Everyone has their weaknesses, even Superman who first returns in a funk (even if he smells good after being in a coffin for many months). And it seemed to me that they were clearly working on "damage control" with Superman - trying to make him the hero he should have always been right from the opening scene where he's being interviewed by the children. They'd already had the chance to allow Diana her time to shine in a solo movie, so it's somewhat understandable that they wanted to try to "fix" Superman's portrayal (although how they're ever going to justify his return as Clark Kent or even a secret identity at all after battling the JL in public and Lois yelling out "Clark" is unclear).

[Vanguard-01]

Was Diana as efficient as Superman against SW? NO.

Was Diana able to land blows on SW the way Superman did? NO

Was Diana able to avoid SW blows the way Superman did? NO.

She was able to cut him just once, and to bounce him off with her power wave move after Aquaman threw him with his weapon. But she did not stand out as being particularly efficient against him. I would have expected more since SW seemed to care about her having the blood of the old gods in her, I thought maybe she would be instrumental to his defeat given her nature. But no. There's no follow up to that. It's all about SUPERMAN.

I'm done with the DCEU for now, until Wonder Woman II comes out. But I doubt there'll be any improvement in the power department since the movies is supposedly set in the 80's.
100 years in the world of man, and she is not even as skilled as Faora against Kal-El. What a bummer.

Wait? She CUT HIM? She inflicted actual damage on him and you're STILL saying she was nothing against him?

And you're basing that final paragraph off of one skirmish in which Diana refused to go all-out against a confused man in the middle of a highly populated city? Faora didn't CARE if she leveled Smallville by beating up Superman. Diana did. If you expected Diana to act like Faora, then you want a complete sociopath for Wonder Woman.