SPOILERS Wonder Woman in Justice League SPOILERS

[richalex]

"Putting him down" does not teach him to trust her. Also? A full-blown conflict between them? You DO see they're in the middle of Metropolis, right? Do we REALLY want a recap of MOS? Diana decided to err on the side of caution in order to de-escalate the situation before it spirals out of control.

Listen, I get it. It's a movie. They have story beats they need to get to. But let's not do it stupidly at the expense of your characters. This fight does not show them as capable at all. Especially the ageless warrior. For all Diana knew, she was about to have another Doomsday situation on her hands, and she's not doing a good job in restraining him. Hell, he looked more powerful than Doomsday did.

[Agent 86]

The best melee fighter in the world would have been able to get out of Superman's hold with ease.

Was Diana trying to? I thought she was trying to take the opportunity to reason with him. The entire time, Diana was deliberately trying to be as unthreatening as possible because Clark only reacted when he perceived Aquaman and Cyborg as "threats".

Sure, it would have been great to see Diana quickly and painlessly subdue Clark with her lasso and to them present him to Lois who, in combination with the power of the lasso, breaks through Clark's "back from the dead" fugue state.

But, that simply would have demonstrated how pointless everyone else on the team is and they're trying to sell them as a "team".

[enish]

Wait? She CUT HIM? She inflicted actual damage on him and you're STILL saying she was nothing against him?

And you're basing that final paragraph off of one skirmish in which Diana refused to go all-out against a confused man in the middle of a highly populated city? Faora didn't CARE if she leveled Smallville by beating up Superman. Diana did. If you expected Diana to act like Faora, then you want a complete sociopath for Wonder Woman.

I'm saying Superman was shown to be way more effective than WW against SW with no sign of struggle, unlike WW and Aquaman.

And no I did not expect Diana to act like Faora, but given her abilities and her experience, she shouldn't have given the impression of standing there waiting to be hit. It is not difficult to get out of the kind of hold, it's basic bone mechanics, it does not require the use of strength at all. Even while he was charging his last headbutt, she should have had the time to react and counter attack him.
I expect a warrior like her to be able to do that.

[Vanguard-01]

Listen, I get it. It's a movie. They have story beats they need to get to. But let's not do it stupidly at the expense of your characters. This fight does not show them as capable at all. Especially the ageless warrior. For all Diana knew, she was about to have another Doomsday situation on her hands, and she's not doing a good job in restraining him. Hell, he looked more powerful than Doomsday did.

She tried to stop a fight from even starting. She knew enough about Superman that she had reason to believe he wouldn't want to hurt anyone. He only attacked after Cyborg fired on him. He thought he was defending himself. Best way to stop a fight in that situation is to try to convince him that he's not under attack.

If she calmed him down, she absolutely WOULD have done a first-rate job of restraining him. There's no restraint better than self-restraint after all.

[enish]

Was Diana trying to? I thought she was trying to take the opportunity to reason with him. The entire time, Diana was deliberately trying to be as unthreatening as possible because Clark only reacted when he perceived Aquaman and Cyborg as "threats".

Sure, it would have been great to see Diana quickly and painlessly subdue Clark with her lasso and to them present him to Lois who, in combination with the power of the lasso, breaks through Clark's "back from the dead" fugue state.

But, that simply would have demonstrated how pointless everyone else on the team is and they're trying to sell them as a "team".

Well if they tried to sell the efficiency of the team, to me they failed. As it is, the team is not needed when Superman is around.
So basically, it is acceptable when it's all about Superman but when it's about Wonder Woman, well let's not offend the fans, let's not give her too much credit right?

[richalex]

Was Diana trying to? I thought she was trying to take the opportunity to reason with him. The entire time, Diana was deliberately trying to be as unthreatening as possible because Clark only reacted when he perceived Aquaman and Cyborg as "threats".

Sure, it would have been great to see Diana quickly and painlessly subdue Clark with her lasso and to them present him to Lois who, in combination with the power of the lasso, breaks through Clark's "back from the dead" fugue state.

But, that simply would have demonstrated how pointless everyone else on the team is and they're trying to sell them as a "team".

But they showed them as pointless by him casually tossing them about. Barry and Vic, are the newbies, sure I expected that from them. Diana and Arthur, nah Im just not buying it.

[Vanguard-01]

Well if they tried to sell the efficiency of the team, to me they failed. As it is, the team is not needed when Superman is around.
So basically, it is acceptable when it's all about Superman but when it's about Wonder Woman, well let's not offend the fans, let's not give her too much credit right?

They gave her plenty of credit. They showcased her compassion and her desire to prevent a conflict from escalating to the point where it might threaten innocent lives. That scene wasn't ABOUT showing what a badass she was. That would be the scene where she (buy your own admission) inflicts actual damage on Steppenwolf in a pitched battle.

[Agent 86]

I'm done with the DCEU for now, until Wonder Woman II comes out. But I doubt there'll be any improvement in the power department since the movies is supposedly set in the 80's.
100 years in the world of man, and she is not even as skilled as Faora against Kal-El. What a bummer.

Agree to disagree. Hopefully we'll all find something to enjoy Wonder Woman II!

[richalex]

She tried to stop a fight from even starting. She knew enough about Superman that she had reason to believe he wouldn't want to hurt anyone. He only attacked after Cyborg fired on him. He thought he was defending himself. Best way to stop a fight in that situation is to try to convince him that he's not under attack.

If she calmed him down, she absolutely WOULD have done a first-rate job of restraining him. There's no restraint better than self-restraint after all.

Yes, she tried to stop the fight before it started and was almost getting through to him. When that didn't obviously work, she should have been shown as if she knew what she needed to do,and that was put him down. Again for all she knew she was about to have another Doomsday situation. Maybe instead of showing what they did they show her about to do a finishing move on him and then Lois stops them from fighting. I can get with that.

[enish]

We'll talk again about all this when you have seen the movie, you'll then have all the context.

You only have 7 min of leaked footage to base you arguments upon, I have the whole movie in my head and all I can say is that I did not see the best fighter in the DCEU shine the way she is supposed to.

[Vanguard-01]

Yes, she tried to stop the fight before it started and was almost getting through to him. When that didn't obviously work, she should have been shown as if she knew what she needed to do,and that was put him down. Again for all she knew she was about to have another Doomsday situation. Maybe instead of showing what they did they show her about to do a finishing move on him and then Lois stops them from fighting. I can get with that.

And if she launched an all-out assault on him, she would DEFINITELY have another Doomsday situation because Clark WOULD defend himself, thus escalating the conflict into ANOTHER all-out god-war in the heart of a city that was badly damaged by one such conflict just a couple years before and narrowly avoided another one just a single year ago.

[enish]

Agree to disagree. Hopefully we'll all find something to enjoy Wonder Woman II!

Hopefully!

To me, the rebirth of the DCEU was with the Wonder Woman solo movie. Justice League is a huge step down from that. JL is not a movie I will rewatch at the theater the way I did with Wonder Woman.

[Agent 86]

Yes, she tried to stop the fight before it started and was almost getting through to him. When that didn't obviously work, she should have been shown as if she knew what she needed to do,and that was put him down. Again for all she knew she was about to have another Doomsday situation. Maybe instead of showing what they did they show her about to do a finishing move on him and then Lois stops them from fighting. I can get with that.

I personally disagree. Clark wasn't behaving like Doomsday. He wasn't rampaging. He wasn't unleashing his heat vision willy nilly. He wasn't throwing cars, girders, etc all around. He was just hovering - doing nothing threatening.

Clark was reacting to the perceived threat of Aquaman, Cyborg, Diana and The Flash. He also reacted emotionally when he saw Batman - I guess because his mind was still working through the emotions of DoJ and he apparently didn't remember many of the events AFTER his initial confrontation with Batman (i.e. he didn't seem to recognise Diana from their battle with Doomsday).

I personally think it was fine for Diana to still be assessing Clark's threat levels and for her to take more of a "wait and see" approach. Even when Clark had Batman by the throat, Diana watched and waited. Was her confidence in Clark not turning into a mindless killing machine misplaced - possibly. But, I guess she saw enough that she believed that he wasn't about to go on a murder spree or destruction rampage through Metropolis.

[Sacred Knight]

Its not perfect, I'll agree certain things take a back seat here. I just wholly disagree that Diana is even close to one of them. Cyborg does. But come on, in what universe can Cyborg ever do anything to Superman? Aquaman is more of a disappointment. He just never shows back up like Cyborg. Then there's the lasso, which indeed I would prefer an explanation on why it doesn't work. But after that? Bruce does nothing but he's a man, who's both unprepared and further more not wanting a fight either; he wants what Diana wants but without the ability to do anything but try to talk (mercifully they were comfortable showing a Batman who doesn't always have "prep time" here). Then we have the Flash, who's wholly capable here. He dodges every one of Clark's physical attacks. The "Superman is awesome" piece here is just that Clark can SEE him. Diana is also plenty capable. She spends the majority of the time trying to defuse the situation and get Clark back to himself. And she does so without a scratch even though she takes some hits.

How does she know this isn't another Doomsday situation? Because she KNOWS who Kal-El is. She's witnessed his goodness first hand. He's just confused. The man was just essentially resurrected. He's not Doomsday. She knows all these things and is trying to appeal to it. When she feels things are finally getting out of hand, she makes a stand then to be more aggressive, but her first move is countered. Ther's a short back and forth where she goes to the ground, Clark goes after Bruce, and its here the fight ends because Lois arrives. This linear course of events doesn't make Diana look stupid in my view, it just means the fight ends before she can get really serious (outside her first serious attempt being blocked, but hey that was the first attempt, I don't see anything to suggest she wouldn't have had more fight in her had Lois not shown up and successfully defused the whole thing).

I thought a big hangup here was focusing TOO much on Diana's warrior nature? She's trying to appeal to the real Kal-El here for as long as she can, who's obviously discombobulated and still its wrong? It seems like they can never win with how she's portrayed.

[DochaDocha]

Okay, so having seen the scene for myself

spoilers:

It's quite possible that her god attack that killed Ares would've downed Superman. However, she was super, super, super hesitant to do it than when she attempted to shoot the lightning, he grabbed her arms and prevented her from clashing her bracers. It's possible that her god attack trumps anything he can do, it's just she wasn't ready or willing to do it with any sort of conviction.

end of spoilers