Kanigher work on Wonder Woman

[AmiMizuno]

How do you guys think about his writing on Wonder Woman ? Was it negative or positive ? I haven’t read his run that often . What were the negatives and positives of his run after Marston and beyond since he is the longest writer on Wonder Woman

[Carabas]

I don't think there are positives, except he may have created the occasional interesting villain.

[Jim Kelly]

I'm sure there was a thread some months ago where I talked about Kanigher--his strengths and weaknesses--at length. I don't have the energy to do that here right now. I will say this about Bob, he's one of the most divisive writers for me personally. He's a genius and yet he does such stupid stuff sometimes. But that's true of a lot of modern writers--in fact, that might be the definition of a modern comic book writer--because all the great ones seem to do thing that make you go "What th--?" and you have to square that with the superior work you admire.

For sure, Kanigher did some truly terrible things and not just with Wonder Woman but with many characters. But those howlers shouldn't represent him entirely. He co-created a lot of fantastic females in comic books. He was one of the best war comic writers and editors. He was an editor and writer of romance comics. He did many humour laden series--like METAL MEN. With all those gifts, he should have probably done more for Wonder Woman than what he did. Still, the fact that he wrote and edited the character for twenty plus years should stand for something. He's deserving of more than a dismissive remark. Even if, at the end of the day, you do dismiss him, Bob's imposing output deserves more than a cursory glance.

I'm just not up to doing that right now. I've got four thick SHOWCASE PRESENTS volumes to read through before I can begin to say anything informed about Kanigher's Amazing Amazon.

[Jcogginsa]

I've never heard anything Good about his run.

[ouroboros]

Kanigher frequently related a story about how he got into comics: that an interviewing editor asked him on the spot to pitch a story idea, cold. RK whipped up a quick, bizarre idea out of whole cloth, and the editor hired him.

I think it's a defining moment not only for RK's career but for his whole approach to comics work. Most of the time his stories depend on one well-defined gimmick, and he takes a very formulaic approach to the way he introduces the gimmick to the reader. I'm sure he did this to keep his output, and his paycheck, high. Only once in a while did he seem to really get into the story for its own sake, and i never saw him do so in WONDER WOMAN.

For an example of one of those rare moments when RK "got into it," here's a piece I did on the most important story RK did for comics.

The only good things I've ever heard about RK's WW run praise the sheer daffiness of certain concepts, like giving Wonder Woman two younger duplicates of herself in Wonder Girl and Wonder Tot. I'd say there's a little childish charm in these stories, but they're not really well done.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think his biggest contribution was being the first to bring Circe into a Wonder Woman story. Even then, future writers did way more with the concept.

It really is unfortunate Wonder Woman got saddled with his writing, which isn't a knock on anything else he may have done. He just wasn't equipped for it. Given the way things were back then, I'm not sure many creators would be. The timing of things really is a shame. Wonder Woman missing out on the Silver Age renaissance has really hurt her in the long run.

[Jim Kelly]

But Bob Kanigher wrote a good many of the Wonder Woman stories between 1943 and 1947--which were thought to be William Marston stories but actually Kanigher was ghosting for him. And then he was the primary Wonder Woman writer from 1948 to 1968 and then again 1973 to 1974. From what I've read of his 1940s and early 1950s output, he was writing WW exactly the same as Marston--to the point where not even Gloria Steinem could tell the difference.

Now, there's not much of the mid-1950s stories that's been reprinted, but from the little I've seen and what others have said, it looks as though Wonder Woman got very boring during that period. However, Kanigher was also the one who revitalized the Amazing Amazon beginning in 1958 with a new approach. And it seems like he went through a few different phases with the Wonder family.

Given Bob was one of the boldest writers at DC and came up with many new ideas during that time, it does seem odd that he's known for a rather domestic Wonder Woman. However, that might be because DC didn't want him to rock the boat with Wonder Woman. He was supposed to keep the Marston family happy and generate more of the same Amazing Amazon adventures. Whenever Kanigher needs to boost sales, he does so by introducing new gimmicks and villains rather than overhauling Diana herself.

And once DC finally decides to completely revolutionize the concept they turn to Jack Miller, Denny O'Neil and Mike Sekowsky--who then create the mod Diana Prince. Yet, I think Bob Kanigher had it in him to turn Diana into a more daring female archetype if he had been instructed to do so--given all the other women he helped to co-create for DC over the years.

Here's some of the female characters co-created by Robert Kanigher:

Black Canary
Lady Danger
Harlequin (Molly)
Dr. Pat
The Thorn (also Rose and the Thorn)
Iris West
Mlle. Marie
Wonder Tot and Wonder Girl (younger versions of Wonder Woman, but each unique)
Platinum of the Metal Men
Poison Ivy
Nubia
Rima the Jungle Girl, adapted from GREEN MANSIONS
Lady Cop

When Gloria Steinem persuaded Carmine Infantino to turn back the clock on Wonder Woman and get rid of the mod Diana Prince, it was Bob Kanigher who was called on to do that. And he mainly went back to the old Wonder Woman stories he had done before. But that's what the feminist wanted. Although he did add Nubia to the Wonder family.

Yet that was around the same time that Kanigher, with Joe Kubert and Nestor Redondo, adapted GREEN MANSIONS, writing some truly impressive stories of Rima. Those comics are mature and intelligent. So I think Kanigher clearly had the talent to create deep stories about women.

[My Two Cents]

Ross Andru penciled and Mike Esposito inked Wonder Woman
from issue 98 through 171
To me they where one of the greatest teams ever to grace a comic (especially one made in the sixties).

[Lex Luthor]

The only stories I've read by him were those first issues of Wonder Woman that he wrote to fill in for a sick Marston and it was clear when Marston wrote it and when someone filled in. I didn't enjoy them and what else I know of him is he continued on with plenty of bad changes so I don't think what he did on the title was very positive. I'd be fine if his contributions were completely forgot about.

[SiegePerilous02]

But Bob Kanigher wrote a good many of the Wonder Woman stories between 1943 and 1947--which were thought to be William Marston stories but actually Kanigher was ghosting for him. And then he was the primary Wonder Woman writer from 1948 to 1968 and then again 1973 to 1974. From what I've read of his 1940s and early 1950s output, he was writing WW exactly the same as Marston--to the point where not even Gloria Steinem could tell the difference.

Now, there's not much of the mid-1950s stories that's been reprinted, but from the little I've seen and what others have said, it looks as though Wonder Woman got very boring during that period. However, Kanigher was also the one who revitalized the Amazing Amazon beginning in 1958 with a new approach. And it seems like he went through a few different phases with the Wonder family.

Given Bob was one of the boldest writers at DC and came up with many new ideas during that time, it does seem odd that he's known for a rather domestic Wonder Woman. However, that might be because DC didn't want him to rock the boat with Wonder Woman. He was supposed to keep the Marston family happy and generate more of the same Amazing Amazon adventures. Whenever Kanigher needs to boost sales, he does so by introducing new gimmicks and villains rather than overhauling Diana herself.

And once DC finally decides to completely revolutionize the concept they turn to Jack Miller, Denny O'Neil and Mike Sekowsky--who then create the mod Diana Prince. Yet, I think Bob Kanigher had it in him to turn Diana into a more daring female archetype if he had been instructed to do so--given all the other women he helped to co-create for DC over the years.

Here's some of the female characters co-created by Robert Kanigher:

Black Canary
Lady Danger
Harlequin (Molly)
Dr. Pat
The Thorn (also Rose and the Thorn)
Iris West
Mlle. Marie
Wonder Tot and Wonder Girl (younger versions of Wonder Woman, but each unique)
Platinum of the Metal Men
Poison Ivy
Nubia
Rima the Jungle Girl, adapted from GREEN MANSIONS
Lady Cop

When Gloria Steinem persuaded Carmine Infantino to turn back the clock on Wonder Woman and get rid of the mod Diana Prince, it was Bob Kanigher who was called on to do that. And he mainly went back to the old Wonder Woman stories he had done before. But that's what the feminist wanted. Although he did add Nubia to the Wonder family.

Yet that was around the same time that Kanigher, with Joe Kubert and Nestor Redondo, adapted GREEN MANSIONS, writing some truly impressive stories of Rima. Those comics are mature and intelligent. So I think Kanigher clearly had the talent to create deep stories about women.

Ooh, I didn't know half of that. Very interesting.

I did know he started writing Wonder Woman with H.G Peters as his artist, and that helped keep the feel of the Marston stories. The Circe story I mentioned was one of those I believe.

One of the main issues with his run though was trimming down her female supporting cast significantly. Etta and the Holliday Girls showed up once and a while but were not regular features, and her largely female rogues gallery was reduced aside from the odd appearance of Cheetah or Giganta. Though with the information you provided, this may not be due to Kanigher.

[AmiMizuno]

So would you say the golden age of Diana was more or less Marston’s work after he passed or Kanigher?

[Jim Kelly]

Ooh, I didn't know half of that. Very interesting.

Some of the earliest Wonder Woman stories I read were during that short period when Kanigher had returned to Wonder Woman in the early '70s. And most of those stories had no writing credit--other than being attributed to Charles Moulton. All of these stories read like the "Golden Age" Wonder Woman. A few decades later, thanks to the internet, I found out these were all by Kanigher based on stories he had originally written in the late '40s and early '50s. But they read like Marston and used Marston villainesses and situations.

Around the same time as that or maybe a little before, in the early '70s, I had picked up the MS. collection of WONDER WOMAN, with lots of 1940s reprints and an intro by Gloria Steinem. She believed these to all be by William Moulton Marston--and the stories are selected for demonstrating some important point about women and human rights. But, when I check the Grand Comics Database, I find three of those stories were by Kanigher (and a few others were by women ghosting for Marston).

And for my above post, I turned to Mike's Amazing World and the credits he provides--where I realized that Kanigher had written even more WW stories in the 1940s than what I had previously thought.

[LordUltimus]

He wrote a story where Hippolyta led a fleet of Amazonian spaceships and won a swordfight with a giant Plutonian robot.

He's okay in my book.

https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6869663.html#cutid1

[Doctor Bifrost]

He wrote a story where Hippolyta led a fleet of Amazonian spaceships and won a swordfight with a giant Plutonian robot.

He's okay in my book.

https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6869663.html#cutid1

So is Diana looking into the past when she was a teenager... and seeing her mother back then leading an attack... and thinking she would want to offer her help, but the problem is that her mother would refuse?

Wow! And I thought today's time conundra were convoluted!

[LordUltimus]

No the attack was happening in the present.