Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[ChrisIII]

J-Doc, maybe?

[Jokerz79]

Read what I posted above:

Their Budget was also cut the writers from then said they cancelled a lot of space stories in the 7th Doctor's era in favor of Historical stories because they didn't have the budget for good sets, costumes, or effects. But they could get good period costumes from BBC drama and could do location shoots.

[ChrisIII]

^Something that worked particuarly well in "Ghost light" I think. Also the location filming for GSITG helped it I think (they couldn't really use many sets because of asbestos or something)-a story featuring a circus tent, actually filmed in a tent!

[Jim Kelly]

You should check out the Honest Trailers for classic Doctor Who and modern Doctor Who.

[JKtheMac]

Okay I didn't know his fan club President was here I didn't insult RTD's writing I disliked his era because of how he wrote the relationships of the Doctor and his companions. But also I disliked the humor in his era and I felt he created no memorable villains. Again most of my complaints aren't the quality of his writing but the direction he took characters.

Ha ha. I wasn’t telling you that you should like it. I was explaining why many would rate his ability over other showrunners in modern Who. I acknowledge that your points are often expressed but I don’t think those things would rank him below Moffat who was basically an RTD understudy. That’s not a criticism, that’s just how Moffat seems to express his respect for RTD and how his last series seemed to be a love letter to him, in both character choices and structure.

Yes I am a huge fan of RTD’s Who. I am also a big fan of the influences he drew upon from Marvel comics and although not a big fan I appreciate Buffy and Angel which were his touchstones for production style and character feel.

Overall, my biggest regret in the RTD era was unrelated to what we did get and entirely based on what we missed out on. He couldn’t coordinate his diary with Alan Moore, who in principle had agreed to write an episode for him.

[JKtheMac]

RTD was an accomplished character writer and a very skilled wordsmith, and when under pressure he can write the occasional cracking script (Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways, Christmas Invasion, Tooth and Claw, Midnight) but if you seriously think Rose Tyler, burping wheelie bins, the Slitheen, Love and Monsters, the Doctor thwarting The Master through the power of prayer and fairy powers, and anything the Master went through in End of Time are benchmarks of how "superior" he is to Moffat I don't know what to tell you.

Emotional storytelling isn't what I watch Doctor Who for either. This isn't flipping Eastenders.

If you don’t think the key to story of any kind is emotion then I doubt we will ever see eye to eye on a single thing about the medium. It is not as if RTD invented emotional Dr Who, or silliness in Who. They were there long before him. Are we supposed to dislike Douglas Adams for his silliness? Are we supposed to ignore the emotional and lighter content of the critically acclaimed late Williams run? Who is adaptable and it is always best to watch it with an open mind. Cynicism is never rewarded by Dr Who.

[ChrisIII]

Yeah, RTD's original villains weren't always that great...Cassandra was kind of OK, but of course there's the Slitheen, Absorbaloff, Judoon, Adipose which were mostly goofy. Although, the Midnight creature was certainly interesting in concept. All the more memorable villains from his era-The Angels, family of Blood, The Beast, Ood, Vasta nerata etc. were mainly the work of other writers. Although certainly there were some crappy monsters written by other writers too...the Wire, Isolus, Lazarus,Chibnall's sun monster etc weren't exactly great.


I did think he did a pretty good job with his takes on the Daleks and the Master though, although some were irked by the drums retcon (Which Moffat pretty much ignored entirely apart from the music).

[Somecrazyaussie]

^Something that worked particuarly well in "Ghost light" I think. Also the location filming for GSITG helped it I think (they couldn't really use many sets because of asbestos or something)-a story featuring a circus tent, actually filmed in a tent!

Greatest Show was destined to end up like Shada in that all the location stuff had been filmed and was in the can. However TV Centre (where the studios were) was shutdown following the discovery of asbestos. Which put a halt to a variety of programs while it was removed. Doctor Who was low on the list and couldn't get studio time (Allo' Allo' was one of the priority shows that DID get studio time.) There was a real fear that the story would have to be abandoned. Which was something JNT wanted to avoid as he had been the Production Unit Manager on Shada.

It was fortuitous that Greatest Show was the story affected. If it had not been set in a circus, it would have remained unfinished. The credit must go to the production team in thinking outside the box and hiring an actual circus tent to double as the studio. There was significant belief in Greatest Show because it was originally a 3 parter, but was expanded to 4. I'm glad it got made because it is one of my favourite stories and gave us a great villain in the Chief Clown.

[Tantalus]

Just came around to say that, even though I've never seen Doctor Who, today, because I was excited about the idea of the Doctor being a woman, I watched the first episode of the new season, and I loved it! I also read that they are kind of adapting the show to newcomers, so I'm thankful for that. Just wanted to share my experience as a newcomer to the fandom.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Just came around to say that, even though I've never seen Doctor Who, today, because I was excited about the idea of the Doctor being a woman, I watched the first episode of the new season, and I loved it! I also read that they are kind of adapting the show to newcomers, so I'm thankful for that. Just wanted to share my experience as a newcomer to the fandom.

Welcome to the club!

[Somecrazyaussie]

Every writer has their strengths and weaknesses. We could argue until the end of time and never see eye to eye. RTD certainly gets points for bringing the show back (the only reason it was greenlit in the first place was due to him being attached.) His era was marked with numerous things I didn't particularly agree with (most of which have been exhibited in recent posts) but we must remember that he was catering the show for everybody (young/old, fan/non-fan etc.) Hence why there was a degree of silliness and soap like drama.

Moffat is a very creative writer and he was more accepting of revisiting the shows prior continuity than RTD (who barely touched on it at all.) But, in doing that, he alienated the average viewer who doesn't care for it or has never really watched the show before. In my opinion, RTD was the better showrunner (his series being more consistent and tighter) whereas Moffat was the better episode writer (which is proven since his episodes were the standouts during RTD's era.)

However, Moffat would have benefitted more if there had been someone there to rein in his excesses. Firstly, he had a tendency to introduce long-term mysteries that were either convenient tied-up or went unresolved. Then there was the repetition with introducing companions with "grand destinies." The other big one that urked me was his utter refusal to stick to character deaths/departures (Clara had three good exits. But then he bought her back!)

It depends on who you ask, but we may never truly get a definitive answer on whose era was the best. Because they are many things to different people.

[Derek Metaltron]

WEEEEEEE! Ten and Donna are back and they're bringing the rest of the Nobles with them! Plus Judoon!



https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/tenth-doctor-volume-3

(But seriously BF you had me at Wilf coming back, wooh!)

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Sweet.

Now i gotta go buy that first volume

[Somecrazyaussie]

WEEEEEEE! Ten and Donna are back and they're bringing the rest of the Nobles with them! Plus Judoon!



https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/tenth-doctor-volume-3

(But seriously BF you had me at Wilf coming back, wooh!)

Huzzah! Instant buy. If Wilf is there, then so am I

[Cyke]

Finally got to see the premiere. For all the gigantic changes (especially the cinematography and direction -- it was all really gorgeous and cinematic for an episode relatively light on SFX), it was comforting to hear the old throwbacks -- artron energy, the sound and energy of residual regeneration energy, the usual sonic screwdriver buzz. A new showrunner and an almost completely new production team with an entirely brand new cast means that they can choose to change any of those things, and yet it was still kept in. The episode succeeds in being both an entry for new fans but with just enough throwbacks to reward the veteran fans.

And I'm reminded of every time Doctor Who changes showrunners or starts a brand new era, and how it's a little frightening but still tempting nonetheless to see the new. I wasn't around when Troughton turned to Pertwee, which was perhaps the first regeneration to start as much from scratch, with an almost new cast, new approach, new direction, and *gasp* color! And even then, the Brigadier was such a light presence in the Troughton years that his return and promotion in the Pertwee years might as well been a new character altogether. So, I'm reminded of how sad I was that no companions from the Tennant years would move to Smith, just as I'm sad now that no one from Capaldi's run will be joining (even Smith and Capaldi's intros had cameos from previous Doctors). Of course, there's rhyme and reason to that -- the new showrunner wants to start things with a fresh narrative without too much baggage from the past, and therein lies some of the thrill -- seeing the show itself regenerate into something new and unfamiliar. It could be a little painful at first, but it's a good pain ("like you won't believe," says 13), and historically it's usually paid off well.

Can't wait for the next episode. This is exciting.

P.S. Ryan's constant failure and attempts to learn how to ride a bike have to be a metaphor and running gag for the rest of the season with its near-complete overhaul, yes? Dyspraxia be damned.