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  1. #6871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathstroke View Post
    The return of Russell T. Davies could be quite a good thing. But it all boils down to him turning out good stories and picking someone to be the new Doctor who can give a great performance.
    That's another thing I am curious about: will we see the return of writers he worked with?

  2. #6872
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    Still going to have the worst taste in my mouth about this latest run as I feel Chibnall kneecapped Jodie in what should have been a far better tenure.
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  3. #6873
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    Quote Originally Posted by KabutoRyder View Post
    Still going to have the worst taste in my mouth about this latest run as I feel Chibnall kneecapped Jodie in what should have been a far better tenure.
    I agree. The actors were totally on point. But they can only do such much when the scripts are lacking.

  4. #6874
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    I agree. The actors were totally on point. But they can only do such much when the scripts are lacking.
    Agreed. I loved the cast, and I liked their characters largely -- but holy crap was this era dreadful for the show as a whole, with the Timeless Child and the new destruction of Galifrey being a real low point.

  5. #6875
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    I only watched two episodes of this Chibby era of Doctor Who, And they were both pretty terrible.

    One was the Orphan post apocalypse Earth episode, which had some cool Stalker vibes, but was kind of Heaven handed with it's Message while saying nothing. I feel having an episode where humans messed up Earth should have more weight, but it was a "You did this thing, how could you? Now let us kill this alien" type scenario. Maybe i'm remembering wrong however.

    The other was the New Years episode with the Daleks, And that was annoying as it had a cool set-up with the Doctor being in Jail And her companions planning to break her out. That should have been the full episode in all honesty, have a break out episode.
    But that was wrapped up in 15 minutes as we needed Daleks And our Trump metaphor.

    I dunno, i love social And political ideas in stories, And i hate Trump And Climate Change as much as the next guy And i do believe that Doctor Who is right for such messages. But they often come out confused or get in the way of a better story.

    Imagine the kinds of commentary you could do with a Prison Episode. You could talk about the racism And abuse that goes on in a Prison while mixing it in with a fun break out story.
    And you could still make it am emotional story, you have w Doctor Who episode right there.

    Isn't there also an episode where the bad guy is a disgruntled amazon employee?

  6. #6876
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post
    I only watched two episodes of this Chibby era of Doctor Who, And they were both pretty terrible.

    One was the Orphan post apocalypse Earth episode, which had some cool Stalker vibes, but was kind of Heaven handed with it's Message while saying nothing. I feel having an episode where humans messed up Earth should have more weight, but it was a "You did this thing, how could you? Now let us kill this alien" type scenario. Maybe i'm remembering wrong however.

    The other was the New Years episode with the Daleks, And that was annoying as it had a cool set-up with the Doctor being in Jail And her companions planning to break her out. That should have been the full episode in all honesty, have a break out episode.
    But that was wrapped up in 15 minutes as we needed Daleks And our Trump metaphor.

    I dunno, i love social And political ideas in stories, And i hate Trump And Climate Change as much as the next guy And i do believe that Doctor Who is right for such messages. But they often come out confused or get in the way of a better story.

    Imagine the kinds of commentary you could do with a Prison Episode. You could talk about the racism And abuse that goes on in a Prison while mixing it in with a fun break out story.
    And you could still make it am emotional story, you have w Doctor Who episode right there.

    Isn't there also an episode where the bad guy is a disgruntled amazon employee?
    There is. Actually the Amazon type one was pretty traditional Who and would have been at home in McCoy's era.

    As for Orphan 55? That is the absolute worst! Not only is it an example of a poor episode, but it is an example of poor sci-fi in general. Plus the preach by the Doctor at the end? "This is what the Earth could end up being if you humans don't act now!" Absolutely terrible.

  7. #6877

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    I'm curious if lightning could strike twice with Davies.

  8. #6878

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    Cautiously optimistic. They're all friends with each other, right? Just saying don't hang your hopes on RTD retconning The Timeless Child or undoing most of what Chibnall did.

    “I’m beyond excited to be back on my favourite show,” Davies said. “But we’re time-travelling too fast, there’s a whole series of Jodie Whittaker’s brilliant Doctor for me to enjoy, with my friend and hero Chris Chibnall at the helm – I’m still a viewer for now.”

    When RTD is back as showrunner post-Chibnall, we may have to live with everything Chibnall did sticking or even being expanded upon, in exchange for Doctor Who actually being fun to watch again.

  9. #6879
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Some thoughts.

    Is the BBC desperate? I'm going to say yes. RTD has said in the past he had no desire to come back so they must have backed up a truck filled with cash.

    You can't go home again. I'm thinking that he is going to have a lot more freedom this time around, which will backfire. An important part of the creative process is having someone in place that can say no. Since the BBC has made a dog's breakfast out (did I use that phrase right?) of Dr Who and set up RTD to be the guy riding in to save it I don't see how that can happen.

    Unlucky Thirteen Timeless Child stuff can't be ignored and he can't retcon it either.

    There are expectations this time around. People are expecting him to save a franchise

    The politics of choosing the next Doctor Jodie was a bust, and is called unlucky 13 and you better believe people are bitter about that. So the next actor to play the Doctor is heading into a toxic environment.
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  10. #6880
    Mighty Member Vworp Vworp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    Cautiously optimistic. They're all friends with each other, right? Just saying don't hang your hopes on RTD retconning The Timeless Child or undoing most of what Chibnall did.
    Even if they weren't mates, it would be the douchiest of douche moves to come in and completely undo an entire storyline of the previous writer, however much a few "fans" might still be crying over it. And before one of those "fans" comes in and says "Yeah, well that's what Chibnall did to the loooooorrrreee!!!", let's just clarify that no, he didn't.

    The only thing the Timeless Child reveal ever directly effected was (some) fans reliance on the status quo. Which is an irony in itself in a show like Doctor Who, but there you go. In universe, it doesn't change much in general. The Doctor is still the Doctor. If you're a slave to the 'numbering', all the Doc's are still the numbers they always were (just as we didn't renumber 10, 11, 12 and 13 because of War). Even the First Doctor's origin is still the same as it ever was. The only difference is that it now has a prologue, something further for the show to delve into... if it wants to.

    And if it doesn't, then RTD will probably just ignore it. It can hang around as a little mystery surrounding the Doctor, something the character had lost since the 60's anyway. But it doesn't have to be referenced on the main show if RTD doesn't wanna go there. And for those that do want to explore it, there's a whole universe of Who outside of television, which now has a big new sandpit to play in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    When RTD is back as showrunner post-Chibnall, we may have to live with everything Chibnall did sticking or even being expanded upon, in exchange for Doctor Who actually being fun to watch again.
    RTD as showrunner. And fun?

    Would that have been the time the Doctor made Martha's life a constant misery, while he moped around like lovesick teenager over the barely-out-of-her-teens girl that he had fallen madly in love with (because reasons), and who loved him back so much that she was happy enough to immediately shack up with a 15 minute old copy of him, that neither she or the actual Doc' really knew anything about. But yay, snogs, amiright??!!

    Or that time the Doctor saved a woman's life by condemning her to life as a disembodied head on a slab who would outlive her lover (but let's not go into that) and presumably spend the rest of time... I dunno, maybe leaning up against a wall?

    Or that time the Doctor made such a big deal about saving someone's life, he convinced her to kill herself?

    Or when the Doctor was giving another paaaain and aaaaangst speech to Rose, when she got all stroppy about Sarah Jane, about how he doesn't age (even though he does, but he was in a tight spot with the missus, so I guess he was being flexible with the facts) and how it's such a curse and is why he doesn't stay with people. And not forgetting the flip side of that drama, when he started banging on at Wilf about how was gonna die. Man, that Ten was always such a consistent fella!

    Or how about when he "hid" in a heavily populated area, from some aliens in a that he didn't actually need to hide from (and who were no threat to him, whatsoever), directly resulting in the deaths of numerous innocent people. All for no other reason that he didn't think he could trust himself not to condemn the aforementioned aliens to an eternity of living torture. Which he ended up doing anyway. Ooh, he's such a bad boy!!

    Ah yes. Truly, it was the funnest of times. But of course, back then the Doc' was a pretty bloke and the scripts didn't mention pollution a couple of times. So I can see why some people enjoyed it.
    Last edited by Vworp Vworp; 09-25-2021 at 11:10 AM.
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  11. #6881
    Extraordinary Member Deathstroke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Agreed. I loved the cast, and I liked their characters largely -- but holy crap was this era dreadful for the show as a whole, with the Timeless Child and the new destruction of Galifrey being a real low point.
    The only way to clean up Chibnall's mess is to have Patrick Duffy come out of the shower in the opening few moments of Russell T. Davies first episode back in charge.
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  12. #6882
    Extraordinary Member Deathstroke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    Cautiously optimistic. They're all friends with each other, right? Just saying don't hang your hopes on RTD retconning The Timeless Child or undoing most of what Chibnall did.

    “I’m beyond excited to be back on my favourite show,” Davies said. “But we’re time-travelling too fast, there’s a whole series of Jodie Whittaker’s brilliant Doctor for me to enjoy, with my friend and hero Chris Chibnall at the helm – I’m still a viewer for now.”

    When RTD is back as showrunner post-Chibnall, we may have to live with everything Chibnall did sticking or even being expanded upon, in exchange for Doctor Who actually being fun to watch again.
    It will be hard to see the show as fun to watch again if they don't disavow Chibnall's error...ahem...era.
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  13. #6883
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vworp Vworp View Post
    Even if they weren't mates, it would be the douchiest of douche moves to come in and completely undo an entire storyline of the previous writer, however much a few "fans" might still be crying over it. And before one of those "fans" comes in and says "Yeah, well that's what Chibnall did to the loooooorrrreee!!!", let's just clarify that no, he didn't.

    The only thing the Timeless Child reveal ever directly effected was (some) fans reliance on the status quo. Which is an irony in itself in a show like Doctor Who, but there you go. In universe, it doesn't change much in general. The Doctor is still the Doctor. If you're a slave to the 'numbering', all the Doc's are still the numbers they always were (just as we didn't renumber 10, 11, 12 and 13 because of War). Even the First Doctor's origin is still the same as it ever was. The only difference is that it now has a prologue, something further for the show to delve into... if it wants to.

    And if it doesn't, then RTD will probably just ignore it. It can hang around as a little mystery surrounding the Doctor, something the character had lost since the 60's anyway. But it doesn't have to be referenced on the main show if RTD doesn't wanna go there. And for those that do want to explore it, there's a whole universe of Who outside of television, which now has a big new sandpit to play in.


    RTD as showrunner. And fun?

    Would that have been the time the Doctor made Martha's life a constant misery, while he moped around like lovesick teenager over the barely-out-of-her-teens girl that he had fallen madly in love with (because reasons), and who loved him back so much that she was happy enough to immediately shack up with a 15 minute old copy of him, that neither she or the actual Doc' really knew anything about. But yay, snogs, amiright??!!

    Or that time the Doctor saved a woman's life by condemning her to life as a disembodied head on a slab who would outlive her lover (but let's not go into that) and presumably spend the rest of time... I dunno, maybe leaning up against a wall?

    Or that time the Doctor made such a big deal about saving someone's life, he convinced her to kill herself?

    Or when the Doctor was giving another paaaain and aaaaangst speech to Rose, when she got all stroppy about Sarah Jane, about how he doesn't age (even though he does, but he was in a tight spot with the missus, so I guess he was being flexible with the facts) and how it's such a curse and is why he doesn't stay with people. And not forgetting the flip side of that drama, when he started banging on at Wilf about how was gonna die. Man, that Ten was always such a consistent fella!

    Or how about when he "hid" in a heavily populated area, from some aliens in a that he didn't actually need to hide from (and who were no threat to him, whatsoever), directly resulting in the deaths of numerous innocent people. All for no other reason that he didn't think he could trust himself not to condemn the aforementioned aliens to an eternity of living torture. Which he ended up doing anyway. Ooh, he's such a bad boy!!

    Ah yes. Truly, it was the funnest of times. But of course, back then the Doc' was a pretty bloke and the scripts didn't mention pollution a couple of times. So I can see why some people enjoyed it.
    As we all know, mentioning real-world stuff is bad!

    But one think I've liked about recent Who is the lack of forced romances with companions, and I don't want to see a return to that.

  14. #6884
    Extraordinary Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    There is. Actually the Amazon type one was pretty traditional Who and would have been at home in McCoy's era.

    As for Orphan 55? That is the absolute worst! Not only is it an example of a poor episode, but it is an example of poor sci-fi in general. Plus the preach by the Doctor at the end? "This is what the Earth could end up being if you humans don't act now!" Absolutely terrible.
    What boggles my mind is the same writer wrote It Takes You Away the previous season, which I honestly thought was one of the better episodes of Season Eleven. And then he creates something that manages to be even more head bashing with agendas and a cat person that somehow looks worse than the dog guy in Space Balls, never-mind the Cat People from New Earth fifteen years earlier.

    That said I felt Season 12 (minus Orphan 55) was a big improvement from Jodie's opening season. Even Praxeus which was also made to be another social commentary episode wasn't that bad in my opinion, and it had some solid stories like Spyfall, Nicola Tesla and the Mary Shelly episode.

  15. #6885
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post
    I only watched two episodes of this Chibby era of Doctor Who, And they were both pretty terrible.

    One was the Orphan post apocalypse Earth episode, which had some cool Stalker vibes, but was kind of Heaven handed with it's Message while saying nothing. I feel having an episode where humans messed up Earth should have more weight, but it was a "You did this thing, how could you? Now let us kill this alien" type scenario. Maybe i'm remembering wrong however.

    The other was the New Years episode with the Daleks, And that was annoying as it had a cool set-up with the Doctor being in Jail And her companions planning to break her out. That should have been the full episode in all honesty, have a break out episode.
    But that was wrapped up in 15 minutes as we needed Daleks And our Trump metaphor.

    I dunno, i love social And political ideas in stories, And i hate Trump And Climate Change as much as the next guy And i do believe that Doctor Who is right for such messages. But they often come out confused or get in the way of a better story.

    Imagine the kinds of commentary you could do with a Prison Episode. You could talk about the racism And abuse that goes on in a Prison while mixing it in with a fun break out story.
    And you could still make it am emotional story, you have w Doctor Who episode right there.

    Isn't there also an episode where the bad guy is a disgruntled amazon employee?
    Rack Robertson actually showed up in the prior season; basically his hotel was invested with mutant spiders-"Arachnids in the UK". Also introduced Yaz's family.


    As for the political/Social commentary it really isn't new to WHO. Take the classic series for example: "The Green Death" from Pertwee's era tackled pollution. Tom Baker's "The Sunmakers" dealt with Taxation. "Vengeance on Varos" dealt with violence on television a bit.


    The McCoy era dealt a lot with some heavy topics too. "Happiness Patrol" is partially a send-up of the Thatcher administration. "Greatest Show in the Galaxy" is a commentary of sorts on the show being on thin ice at this time. Ace's troubled past is also addressed many times in the final season-pretty much the last three serials are all about her.

    Classic Who also was controversial many times for violence, especially during the two Bakers.
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 09-25-2021 at 01:59 PM.
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