Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[Kirby101]

Except with a bootstrap paradox history doesn't change it's maintained.

What changed? Chuck Berry still helped create Rock and Roll. The paradox is where Johnny B Good came from?

[Jokerz79]

What changed? Chuck Berry still helped create Rock and Roll. The paradox is where Johnny B Good came from?

In the original Timeline Marty learned Johnny B. Goode so it existed as a song by Chuck Berry.

When he returned home he had changed the timeline his family changed, Biff changed, even the Twin Pines Mall became the Pine Mall because he knocked down one of the trees.

So if Marty inspired the song in 1955 by singing it at the Dance and Marvin hearing it than how did it exist in the original timeline when he wasn't in 1955 in the original timeline?

Until that joke Back to the Future was one of the few perfect time travel films with no paradoxes.

[Kirby101]

In the original Timeline Marty learned Johnny B. Goode so it existed as a song by Chuck Berry.

When he returned home he had changed the timeline his family changed, Biff changed, even the Twin Pines Mall became the Pine Mall because he knocked down one of the trees.

So if Marty inspired the song in 1955 by singing it at the Dance and Marvin hearing it than how did it exist in the original timeline when he wasn't in 1955 in the original timeline?

Until that joke Back to the Future was one of the few perfect time travel films with no paradoxes.

I see what you mean about the overall timeline. But as far as Chuck Berry, that is the point of the Bootstrap Paradox, no origin point for something, because it is caught in a cause and effect loop.

You see, most people think of time as a linear, but it is actually a big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey....couldn't resist

[ChrisIII]

BTTF's time travel is a bit confusing. It's never really revealed whether Marty's memories eventually adjusted to the 'improved' timeline (although he certainly seems to have a higher esteem for his parents in II). Same with the dark 1985 timeline in II, Marty initially assumes it's the 1985 he's just left before Doc breaks it down.

Then there's the whole bit in III with 1985 Doc not remembering he sent Marty back to 1885 from 1955, and should be aware of the possibility of his death already.

[ChrisIII]

Regarding the companion thing, originally it was intended for the Fourth Doctor era to be a bit like the First Doctors, with the companion doing all the action stuff while the Doctor would be older (even more so than Pertwee, who despite his age was one of the more "physical" incarnations). This was the intention of the Harry Sullivan character.

However when they settled on Tom Baker that pretty much went out the window, and Harry was written as a somewhat clumsier and awkward character (But still pretty good, and with good chemistry with Baker, especially when they were teamed for a good chunk of Genesis of the Daleks).

[Jokerz79]

Regarding the companion thing, originally it was intended for the Fourth Doctor era to be a bit like the First Doctors, with the companion doing all the action stuff while the Doctor would be older (even more so than Pertwee, who despite his age was one of the more "physical" incarnations). This was the intention of the Harry Sullivan character.

However when they settled on Tom Baker that pretty much went out the window, and Harry was written as a somewhat clumsier and awkward character (But still pretty good, and with good chemistry with Baker, especially when they were teamed for a good chunk of Genesis of the Daleks).

I remember seeing Capaldi was against a male companion for a long time over fears he'd be given the more action stuff.

[ChrisIII]

Kind of glad that the series has kind of moved away from the male companion being potential romantic rival cliche, although this was already kind of inverted with Smith, with the Doctor outright rejecting Amy's advances and encouraging her relationship with Rory (Which of course, led to River), only for the first Capaldi season to fall back on the whole thing again with Clara & Danny, although the Doctor's relationship with Clara-especially post-Danny; was a bit vague although the Doctor of course went to extreme measures to save her.

Although I suppose there could be some romance brewing in the series at some point (Sure, there was Graham and Grace but that's not really what I'm talking about), we haven't got a hint of it yet. really. (If anything it'd probably be Yasmin and Ryan). I really don't see the Doctor hooking up with Graham.

[Sain]

Kind of glad that the series has kind of moved away from the male companion being potential romantic rival cliche, although this was already kind of inverted with Smith, with the Doctor outright rejecting Amy's advances and encouraging her relationship with Rory (Which of course, led to River), only for the first Capaldi season to fall back on the whole thing again with Clara & Danny, although the Doctor's relationship with Clara-especially post-Danny; was a bit vague although the Doctor of course went to extreme measures to save her.

Although I suppose there could be some romance brewing in the series at some point (Sure, there was Graham and Grace but that's not really what I'm talking about), we haven't got a hint of it yet. really. (If anything it'd probably be Yasmin and Ryan). I really don't see the Doctor hooking up with Graham.

Yea, this seems pretty clear though. "Thanks for waiting for me" was the most glaring. I just wonder how it will bounce off other characters and inform their decision making. This is a relationship I will gladly love to have a slow burn for a very cute payoff, because for some reason I can't envsion how their dynamic post-coupling will be too interesting. I also find it hard to believe they would keep them together for assuming 3 seasons total.

A Doctor x Ryan thing might be interesting. Seeing her stamble and not know how to quantify those specific emotions could be cute. Especially since it seems she doesn't have time for those type of feelings.

[JKtheMac]

Don’t know about anyone else but I found Rosa to be surprisingly emotional in the final act. I won’t add to this until later when most have caught up with it. Overall a very solid episode and yet again excellent performances from the main cast.

[JKtheMac]

The suspension of disbelief muscles were straining to braking point with the Ghost Monument. First, they're rescued from the vacuum of space seconds after arriving, and then the second ship has a barely controlled crash landing (without tracking the first ship) but still manages to crash within metres of the the first team on a rocky planet large enough to have an earth type gravity and thus would presumably be about the size of earth.

The first was a nod to Douglas Adams and as such more than fitting, the second isn’t a coincidence because they are both aiming for an assigned rendezvous spot. It is a controlled crash landing that brings them down close to that spot.

[Sain]

Ok, so it still does air at around 1:30 pm ET? I thought that was just for the premiere because for the Ghost Monument I watched it at 8p and what I'm about to do soon for Rosa.

[Indian Ink]

The first was a nod to Douglas Adams and as such more than fitting, the second isn’t a coincidence because they are both aiming for an assigned rendezvous spot. It is a controlled crash landing that brings them down close to that spot.

Yes, and Douglas Adams used the Heart of Gold ship powered by the Improbability Drive to explain the highly unlikelyhood of such a thing happening. No Improbability drive here.

It was a controlled crash landing (mostly by the Doctor) in the sense that they didn't crash and explode/die. If they wanted to explain a close landing to the other crew, they should of had her say: "There's a signal coming from the planet!! I'm going to try and land as close as possible to it!!!" Then cut to them as a distant light in the sky in the background with the others walking in a trench.

[JKtheMac]

Yes, and Douglas Adams used the Heart of Gold ship powered by the Improbability Drive to explain the highly unlikelyhood of such a thing happening. No Improbability drive here.

It was a controlled crash landing (mostly by the Doctor) in the sense that they didn't crash and explode/die. If they wanted to explain a close landing to the other crew, they should of had her say: "There's a signal coming from the planet!! I'm going to try and land as close as possible to it!!!" Then cut to them as a distant light in the sky in the background with the others walking in a trench.

I don’t have any desire to be spoon fed extranious details, or need an excuse for a Douglas Adams reference in the show that he once worked on.

[Indian Ink]

I don’t have any desire to be spoon fed extranious details, or need an excuse for a Douglas Adams reference in the show that he once worked on.

OK; Well you did try explain them away.

[JKtheMac]

OK; Well you did try explain them away.

Actually, it only takes a little deductive reasoning to narrow the coincidences down. We have it explained why everyone would be there at that exact spot. We have it explained why they would be picked up and not ignored, and we have only to apply a bit of logical deduction to explain why they would all be there in the appropriate time frame. I think the episode did more than enough explaining.

P.S. I am also guessing you may not be quite old enough to recognise the irony of saying that this show hasn’t got a Heart of Gold. A space craft that is essentially the Tardis with the serial numbers filed off by a writer who based nearly all of his novels / scripts on ideas for Dr Who that he wasn’t able to use because he lost his job as the script editor of the show prematurely.