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  1. #5671
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I think that more or less the ratings have been dropping since Tennant and RTD left.
    Changing TV landscapes. We have more options now and appointment viewing is a thing of the past. People want to watch something when it suits them. Plus Doctor Who has been on air more or less since 05. The audience doesn't grow. They atrophy over time and 15 years is a long time.

  2. #5672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Gerard View Post
    American numbers shot up with Smith (not that BBC necessarily takes that into account) but plunged when Karen Gillen left and again when Smith left.

    I can say anecdotally that tracks given my dozen closest friends and parents as a sample:

    About a third watched Tennant. The majority watched most or all of Smith. My dad and I were the only ones who watched Capaldi.

    We dropped Whitaker with Spyfall after never really enjoying any of the episodes before it and more or less feeling emotionally burned by the destruction of Gallifrey.
    American numbers shot up because Smiths tenure was when it was being shown the same time as the UK broadcasts. Plus the show underwent a total revitalization - new Doctor, new companion, new Tardis, new showrunner, new theme, new logo the works.

    Jodies tenure began the same way. But it didn't do enough to wow the audience. Smith hit the ground running and never looked back. Jodie's entire first series was lackluster. Moffat (at first anyway) had a clear, definitive vision. Chibnall didn't.
    Last edited by Somecrazyaussie; 01-15-2020 at 09:01 PM.

  3. #5673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    American numbers shot up because Smiths tenure was when it was being shown the same time as the UK broadcasts. Plus the show underwent a total revitalization - new Doctor, new companion, new Tardis, new showrunner, new theme, new logo the works.

    Jodies tenure began the same way. But it didn't do enough to wow the audience. Smith hit the ground running and never looked back. Jodie's entire first series was lackluster. Moffat (at first anyway) had a clear, definitive vision. Chibnall didn't.
    I think a lot of effort went into Jodie’s and Matt’s runs.

    As a veteran of the series since childhood, I was giddy at every tease regarding how and when Smith’s Doctor would exit. A new Doctor is a new energy. Growing up in the 80s in America, I got a compressed version of three through seven since the reruns started with three and rapidly caught up.

    My parents never watched until Smith. Seeing him go was heartbreaking. While I was and remain hopeful for Ramona’s return, River will be the Doctor’s soulmate in the eyes of my parents and most of my friends.

    I feel the newer audience lacked a coping mechanism for change. And Jodie’s run seems designed to try to evoke Tennant’s but just isn’t as funny. RTD was definitely writing a Douglas Adams-y sitcom of a show and Smith retained those moments. Capaldi’s run was a bit dour the first year but found comedic and dramatic footing its second. The Bill season was a bit dry and Jodie’s material just hasn’t been clever or funny.

    I want Howard Overman as showrunner and a Grant Morrison episode.

    Dirk Gently. Future Man. Misfits. It’s the right resume.

  4. #5674
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    Honestly, they have a plan they can adapt.
    The Cartmel Master Plan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartmel_Masterplan

    The Doctor needs to be unknown and enigmatic. Having visits to his childhood and his backstory filled in is a pretty huge mistake, it's just writing yourself into a corner later on. Mystery keeps audiences hooked.
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  5. #5675
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    The Sun Makers was blatantly a dig at the Tax Man, no doubt. The difference is that it was written intelligently. The Happiness Patrol is another in that it was a satire of Thatcher. Helen A is as close as you can get to Thatcher without actually casting Thatcher herself.

    Pertwee's era is when the show was really on the moral high horse. Barry Letts was pretty big on it since he was a Buddhist. Inferno, The Silurians, The Mutants, Green Death the list is endless.


    And Pertwee's final episode revealed that one of the Doctor's mentors was living as a Buddhist monk on Earth. (And also had the entire concept of an incarnation projecting it's independent future self before regeneration-something we kind of saw with the Watcher and maybe the Valeyard?)
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  6. #5676
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    So pics from the next episode show a familiar weapon. Either it's a case of prop reuse or they've spoiled another returning villain or character.
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  7. #5677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Honestly, they have a plan they can adapt.
    The Cartmel Master Plan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartmel_Masterplan

    The Doctor needs to be unknown and enigmatic. Having visits to his childhood and his backstory filled in is a pretty huge mistake, it's just writing yourself into a corner later on. Mystery keeps audiences hooked.
    And RTD did that during his run. When Doctor Who came back, we suddenly had The Doctor as the "last" Time Lord. Little bits were dropped about the Time War and the fact The Daleks were involved and so on. Then he proceeded to reintroduce those elements with each episode under his reign. The Time War lost its mystique and, by the time it was shown during Day Of The Doctor, most fans felt disappointed. Leaving those events ambiguous allows us to envision high concept themes such as "fighting a battle, losing, then time travelling back to before said events and prevent them from happening."

    They looked at doing away with Gallifrey in the 80s. Purely because some in the production team felt they had lost the mythic edge they once had. A result of going back to the well too many times. The Time Lords, at first, were almost like gods. Then it was revealed that they were pretty corrupt and downright detestable at times.

    The show was founded on the very question: Doctor Who? The more you reveal the docs backstory, the less interesting he becomes. The same happened with Wolverine once they settled on revealing his origin. It was okay to let readers know it, but a mistake having Wolverine remember.

  8. #5678
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    So pics from the next episode show a familiar weapon. Either it's a case of prop reuse or they've spoiled another returning villain or character.
    Wouldn't surprise me. Afterall, Chibnall was the one who wrote their reintroduction episodes.

  9. #5679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Gerard View Post
    I think a lot of effort went into Jodie’s and Matt’s runs.

    As a veteran of the series since childhood, I was giddy at every tease regarding how and when Smith’s Doctor would exit. A new Doctor is a new energy. Growing up in the 80s in America, I got a compressed version of three through seven since the reruns started with three and rapidly caught up.

    My parents never watched until Smith. Seeing him go was heartbreaking. While I was and remain hopeful for Ramona’s return, River will be the Doctor’s soulmate in the eyes of my parents and most of my friends.

    I feel the newer audience lacked a coping mechanism for change. And Jodie’s run seems designed to try to evoke Tennant’s but just isn’t as funny. RTD was definitely writing a Douglas Adams-y sitcom of a show and Smith retained those moments. Capaldi’s run was a bit dour the first year but found comedic and dramatic footing its second. The Bill season was a bit dry and Jodie’s material just hasn’t been clever or funny.

    I want Howard Overman as showrunner and a Grant Morrison episode.

    Dirk Gently. Future Man. Misfits. It’s the right resume.
    Effort absolutely went into Smiths first year. Not so much Jodie, though (which has been rectified this series).

  10. #5680
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    Ok, so I've just seen Orphan 55. It does appear that the inviolability of the tardis is really no longer a thing anymore. Objects and people can get teleported in and out with little impediment. I wasn't watching with any intention of a critical eye but the episode did seem to lose my interest somewhere past the half way point.

    Something I couldn't stop thinking about; If there's only carnivore Dregs on the planet, What are they normally preying off? More importantly if the Dregs, and the trees seen in the background, both breath in carbon dioxide and out oxygen, what is completing the cycle back to the all most pure carbon dioxide atmosphere?

  11. #5681
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    Wouldn't surprise me. Afterall, Chibnall was the one who wrote their reintroduction episodes.
    Although the previews do show what appears to be something similar to the Racnoss....but weren't they both underground basically?


    Regarding the TARDIS's being inviolable it's ability to do so hasn't always been consistent, even in the classic series. There's also the "State of grace" thing that was ignored later on as well. Given that the TARDIS doesn't always work properly (although as Doctor's wife brought up, maybe intentionally) it could mean those systems are perhaps on the fritz.
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  12. #5682
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Maybe it's time for the show to go back into hibernation? The show was brought back from the dead in 2005. That is a long time for any show to be on the air.

    It's just natural for a show to get...tired.

    There is no harm in saying that it was a good run and letting the show go into hibernation until you have something worthwhile to do with it again.
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  13. #5683
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    It's had a few break years-2016 and last year there were no seasons, just specials. Same with 2009 during the Tennant era, although there were generally more specials in that gap.
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  14. #5684
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    It's had a few break years-2016 and last year there were no seasons, just specials. Same with 2009 during the Tennant era, although there were generally more specials in that gap.
    I watched the last episode and it was a paint by numbers episode. The show hasn't changed, it's just run its course.

    Do you folks really expect this show to never go off the air again? It's been 15 years. How much longer do you want the show to go on in this incarnation? Maybe it needs to regenerate but before it can do that it needs to die. Just like it did before it was brought back in it's current form.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  15. #5685
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    I don't think it necessarily needs a hibernation but it does need a creative team that have a clear vision and plan for the show.
    Last season seemed to be nothing but filler episodes and this season isn't really off to a cracking start either.
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