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  1. #5701
    Fantastic Member Indian Ink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    About the too many companions thing; I’m hard pressed to say which one should go. Yaz is the obvious choice, but would it be too weird to have the doctor traveling with a grandfather and grandson, as opposed to a married couple? ....
    No, I don't think it would be weird at all.

  2. #5702

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    I don't think there's too many companions at all. If there were 5 or more, sure...but I think Chibnall is taking bits and pieces from the earlier eras and making them fit. The configuration reminds me of the 1st Doctor's, just with the genders inverted (meaning Graham is Carol).

    No, I think the problem is Chibnall isn't a very good writer/showrunner. The more characters there are the more you have to give them a chance to shine so that they're fully realized. If that's not his strength then he should not have that many.
    Last edited by Nate Grey; 01-20-2020 at 12:24 PM.

  3. #5703
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    I kind of wonder why the doctor never tries to blend into whatever period they find themselves in, while the companions play dress up. And the action sure is jumping around, from Tesla’s lab, to the moving train. I guess. I’m getting a history lesson here, the rivalry between Tesla and Edison, which I wasn’t aware of. How exactly do you pronounce ‘patent?” I think it’s kind of funny that the brits are commenting on the ‘American sense of humor.’
    Last edited by protege; 01-20-2020 at 12:28 PM.

  4. #5704
    Fantastic Member Indian Ink's Avatar
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    The writers are annoying me with Yas. I swear they only made her a policewoman as a status achievement point to add to the character. At no point so far, has her position in the British police force been any factor in her personality or actions. To the writers it seems that Yas's importance is only either being in the nature of racial and cultural inheritance, or standing behind the doctor like a plank of wood. Mostly the plank of wood. Even when in modern day Britain, she hasn't even attempted to caution (let alone arrest, though that could quickly get tiresome) those committing or attempting illegal actions. They need to either have her step up, or get rid of her.

  5. #5705

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indian Ink View Post
    The writers are annoying me with Yas. I swear they only made her a policewoman as a status achievement point to add to the character. At no point so far, has her position in the British police force been any factor in her personality or actions. To the writers it seems that Yas's importance is only either being in the nature of racial and cultural inheritance, or standing behind the doctor like a plank of wood. Mostly the plank of wood. Even when in modern day Britain, she hasn't even attempted to caution (let alone arrest, though that could quickly get tiresome) those committing or attempting illegal actions. They need to either have her step up, or get rid of her.
    I have to agree with this.

    Doesn't the Doctor typically have a more action-first companion that he has to reign in? This could have easily been Yas. As it stands her job as a police officer is just that, a job. It seems no more important to her than regular income. Unless that was goal all along and we the fans are assuming we should see some of her police training when traveling with the Doctor? But if so then that begs the question why make her a police officer at all, any old job will do.

  6. #5706
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    The fact that Graham’s old job comes up more than Yaz’s is ironic. But I agree that the crowded TARDIS aspect is not any sort of issue more than Chris not utilising it properly. Season 19 managed quite well with the crew as something of a dysfunctional family with Five and Nyssa as the tired parents and Tegan and Adric as the squabbling children. I think they probably just need better direction and writing overall.

    Edit: Bit of a shocker I didn’t realise until I saw an article mention it - the Skithra Queen was played by none other than Anjli Mohindra, who played Rani Chandra in The Sarah Jane Adventures! Makes me wonder what the other kids in that show have been up to since...
    Last edited by Derek Metaltron; 01-20-2020 at 01:38 PM.

  7. #5707
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    Another thought occurred to me regarding the Tesla episode.
    So there's an alien ship that the Doctor wants to get out of Earth's atmosphere and we get the 'hook up the TARDIS and use the tower as a death ray' silliness.
    But why not have the TARDIS tow the ship away? The 4th Doctor had the TARDIS tow a neutron star, 10th Doctor towed the entire planet Earth...
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  8. #5708
    Extraordinary Member Deathstroke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Metaltron View Post
    The fact that Graham’s old job comes up more than Yaz’s is ironic. But I agree that the crowded TARDIS aspect is not any sort of issue more than Chris not utilising it properly. Season 19 managed quite well with the crew as something of a dysfunctional family with Five and Nyssa as the tired parents and Tegan and Adric as the squabbling children. I think they probably just need better direction and writing overall.

    Edit: Bit of a shocker I didn’t realise until I saw an article mention it - the Skithra Queen was played by none other than Anjli Mohindra, who played Rani Chandra in The Sarah Jane Adventures! Makes me wonder what the other kids in that show have been up to since...

    I think that would be a great episode if they got someone really good to write it. Plus, acknowledge Sarah Jane's death.
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  9. #5709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indian Ink View Post
    Haven't seen the latest episode yet, but something that occurred to me the other day regarding impressions of the last season. That is that there were some good stories there, but that they would have been even better if the Doctor and companions weren't in them. I wouldn't have been completely surprised if the writers had some pet project stories in mind, or even already written, and then to get them on screen had to put the Doctor in them. It's as though, with the historical stories at least, there's a half decent drama getting invaded by some odd kidult team to explain what's happening folks!
    True.

    For me, they need to return to doing some pure historicals again. Not every historical needs to have some monster or science-fiction element. I can understand why the did it during the classic series. Rosa, for example, would have worked just fine without the Time-travelling criminal being involved.

  10. #5710
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    About the too many companions thing; Iím hard pressed to say which one should go. Yaz is the obvious choice, but would it be too weird to have the doctor traveling with a grandfather and grandson, as opposed to a married couple? Ryan could go, but the balance isnít better served that way either. Graham is my absolute favorite, and I hope he stays a while longer, but heís sort of a ticking time bomb with his cancer, and Bradley Walsh may get tired. Of the grind. Problem is, if he goes, Iím not sure Iíd tune in for the doctor, Yaz and Ryan.
    Yaz. She has been dead weight since the show began. I think they wanted to avoid snarky remarks from the media about a female Doctor travelling with two male companions (which is why they quickly dispensed with Tegan after Adric was bumped off as JNT didn't want people talking about a young, male Doctor travelling with two young women).

    It is no slight against the actress. She is fine. But she really hasn't contributed much and the writers haven't given her much to do. Ideally, Series 11 should have been squarely focused on the relationship between Graham and Ryan. They were only a family held together by his grandma. With her death, the series should have explored them grieving and coming together so that, at the end, they would have established a sincere father/son relationship.

  11. #5711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    I don't think there's too many companions at all. If there were 5 or more, sure...but I think Chibnall is taking bits and pieces from the earlier eras and making them fit. The configuration reminds me of the 1st Doctor's, just with the genders inverted (meaning Graham is Carol).

    No, I think the problem is Chibnall isn't a very good writer/showrunner. The more characters there are the more you have to give them a chance to shine so that they're fully realized. If that's not his strength then he should not have that many.
    No. The show was barely able to make three companions work during the 60s when the stories were serialized across multiple episodes. Which is why they quickly abandoned it (also helped that one less regular saved on the budget). Ian was there to handle the action, Barbara was there to be a peacekeeper and den mother to Susan, and Susan was just there to be the reckless teenager who got into trouble and screamed alot.

    They returned to three again in the 80s. Result? Not enough story to accommodate all of them. Nyssa was absent for one story (Kinda) and another (The Visitation) in the Tardis constructing a device to deal with an Android. The production team then decided to kill Adric off in the very next story afterwards (Earthshock).

    Three companion does give you more narrative options, but you can't do it in 45 - 60 minutes and have everybody get sufficient screen time. Somebody always misses out and that someone has been Yaz.

  12. #5712

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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    No. The show was barely able to make three companions work during the 60s when the stories were serialized across multiple episodes. Which is why they quickly abandoned it (also helped that one less regular saved on the budget). Ian was there to handle the action, Barbara was there to be a peacekeeper and den mother to Susan, and Susan was just there to be the reckless teenager who got into trouble and screamed alot.

    They returned to three again in the 80s. Result? Not enough story to accommodate all of them. Nyssa was absent for one story (Kinda) and another (The Visitation) in the Tardis constructing a device to deal with an Android. The production team then decided to kill Adric off in the very next story afterwards (Earthshock).

    Three companion does give you more narrative options, but you can't do it in 45 - 60 minutes and have everybody get sufficient screen time. Somebody always misses out and that someone has been Yaz.
    Wait, how did that refute what I said about if the writer can't do it he shouldn't try? It sounds like it was done in the 60s hence you knew what the primary function of Ian Barbara and Susan was. Whoever was writer at the time was good enough at least to get that across, which proves my point.

    A better writer could do the same with Graham Ryan and Yaz, we just don't have one at the moment.

  13. #5713
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    The problem is that the story structures are completely different between the 60s and now.
    In the 1960s, for example, it was the norm that one story spanned 4 full episodes and that meant that there was a fair bid of time to be padded - time used to flesh out the various characters. The DVD commentary goes into this a fair bit, the necessity to pad things out is why companions were so often tasked with heading from the main action back to the TARDIS to fetch a needed item, etc.
    Now, even two-parters are fairly rare and that lack of time in the one setting/one plot/mixed with one lot of characters means that the companions aren't given the time to be explored.

    As a quick example, there were often scenes between Sarah Jane Smith and the Doctor simply talking while the TARDIS travelled. Nothing directly related to the plot, just exploring ideas and Sarah Jane asking questions ... and just conversing. I can't remember the last time that sort of dialogue happened in the new series.

    And, honestly, that structure worked well in the 60s because the TARDIS crew dynamic allowed the companions to take the lead (especially Ian). The Doctor was too physically frail to do any real running or heroics and was often in the background.
    Later, during the time of the 5th Doctor, they went back to three companions and it didn't work well. Between Nysaa, Tegan and Adric there wasn't enough for them to do - even with four episodes. Again, the DVD commentary makes it very clear that the script writers struggled with this constantly.
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  14. #5714
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    The problem possibly with the Season 19 crew was that you had three smart types - the Doctor, Nyssa and Adric - with Tegan really both the bossy one and the audience viewpoint. I think it’s important to remember actually that Tegan was distinctive in being the first non British companion (space Brits don’t count) and someone not wanting to be there. I think it’s clear too that Five had a fondness for Nyssa over the other two since her intellect was decent compared to his (the Doctor clearly has a type when it comes to arguably romantic relationships). Adric is probably the odd one since once Nyssa was around his role seemed secondary, hence why he got removed. Then Nyssa was removed in Terminus presumably because the BBC thought audiences liked Tegan more and they wouldn’t want an all alien TARDIS crew?

  15. #5715

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    yeah I'm not letting Chibnall off the hook here. Maybe another way to put it is, don't bite off more than you can chew. If the story structure NOW doesn't lend itself to doing more than one companion, might not be a good idea to bring on more than one companion unless you're sure you can make it work. A better writer could make it work, possibly, but it sounds like his/her job would be cut out for them (since as stated the story structure is different), so even the better writer would avoid it.

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