Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[Somecrazyaussie]

Kind of curious how Pertwee's last season (Which some consider to be his weakest, despite Sarah Jane) would've been with Delgado. Apparently Pertwee's last story was intended to reveal that the Master was the Doctor's dark side, and the two would have some sort of Sherlock Holmes/Moriarty final conflict with the Doctor regenerating after the fact.

Which are two things we kind of got eventually with the Valeyard and the Master being involved at least in part with several of the regenerations (4, 7, 10 and 12's).

Ah, but it wouldn't have been Pertwee's final season if Delgado was still alive. It absolutely would have been the final showing for Delgado as the Master (he was keen to move on as he felt the Master had been taken as far as he could. He had agreed in principle to do the last serial purely because the Master was going to be "killed off" and the fact it was going to be a heroic death by saving the Doctor.)

Pertwee hadn't decided to leave by that point. The departures of Manning, Letts and Dicks played a part, and the death of Delgado also had a hand in it, but the final straw came when Pertwee went to BBC bosses and said he would stay on for series 12, but asked about a pay rise. The fact the show was doing strong in the ratings was the catalyst for him even asking (anybody would.) Sadly, they said no. So he told them to find someone else and he was "out."

Series 11 would have played out the same. It is just the final serial that would have been drastically different. Now imagine if Pertwee had stayed on for series 12 (Tom's first.) That will blow your mind lol.

[ChrisIII]

I've read that originally the intention for the Fourth Doctor was to make him even older than Pertwee, more kind of Hartnellesque. Hence the reason Harry Sullivan was created, to be the Fourth's Ian/Steven/Ben etc.

Funny thing is, while ROBOT is pretty much a Pertwee story plot wise, Tom's comedic talents are pretty much used right away to distinguish him from the more serious Pertwee.

The other stories in the season I can actually see working pretty well with Pertwee's Doctor as Tom's Doctor becomes generally more serious and the stories are very sci-fi which we had a pretty good deal of in Pertwee even with him being stuck most of the time. I think in Tom's second year Hinchcliffe really started to develop more of a distinct style from Lett's.

[Somecrazyaussie]

I've read that originally the intention for the Fourth Doctor was to make him even older than Pertwee, more kind of Hartnellesque. Hence the reason Harry Sullivan was created, to be the Fourth's Ian/Steven/Ben etc.

Funny thing is, while ROBOT is pretty much a Pertwee story plot wise, Tom's comedic talents are pretty much used right away to distinguish him from the more serious Pertwee.

The other stories in the season I can actually see working pretty well with Pertwee's Doctor as Tom's Doctor becomes generally more serious and the stories are very sci-fi which we had a pretty good deal of in Pertwee even with him being stuck most of the time. I think in Tom's second year Hinchcliffe really started to develop more of a distinct style from Lett's.

Letts had the job of choosing Pertwee's replacement and there were a few considerations on the table. Most of them were in their early fifties by 1974. So about 52/53. Pertwee was 50 when he was cast. Hartnell was 55 when he secured the role. Oddly enough, Bernard Cribbins was also considered for the role. He would have been in his 40s.

Luckily, Letts was recommended to go watch Baker perform in Sinbad by BBC serial head Bill Slater (whom Baker knew and had worked with previously.) Baker had reached out to Bill as he learned he had become the head of serials and was desperate for work. One of those fortunate accidents were everything aligns. But yes, Harry was created when they were still under the impression someone older would be cast. Plus they initially wanted to contrast the next Doctor with Pertwee's more action orientated portrayal.

Hinchcliffe pretty much inherited series 12. Letts and Dicks had already had discussions with writers about story outlines and a general framework was in place. But Hinchcliffe did infuse some of those stories with his signature horror aspects where he could (Genesis and Ark In Space especially. ) Letts did act in an advisory capacity until Hinchcliffe was settled into the role of producer.

I can definitely see Pertwee in most serials. But imagine him in Genesis giving that famous speech.

[ChrisIII]

Sontaran experiment definitely seemed kind of Pertwee-esque, especially that fight scene.

[Miles To Go]

Sontaran experiment definitely seemed kind of Pertwee-esque, especially that fight scene.

"IKEEEA, Another mistake Styre, I always found that violent exercise makes me hungry, don't you agree?"

When twitch memes collide.

[Somecrazyaussie]

The Third Doctor was always against the idea of wholesale slaughter. So, for me, I often wonder how he would have faired in Genesis. I can definitely see him trying to convince Davros and others exactly how dangerous the Daleks are. But there is no way he would have been as conflicted as the Fourth was. He seriously considered crossing those wires. The Third wouldn't have.

[ChrisIII]

It's a bit of a shame that Pertwee kind of got stuck with sort of 'meh' Dalek stories. Day of the Daleks is probably his best, although the Dalek voices are kind of poor (Although the dvd release fixed it) and it's best for the time paradox element rather than the Daleks themselves. Frontier In Space really isn't much of a Dalek story anyway (and the voices are still kind of meh). Planet's pretty poor despite the concept of an invisible Dalek and Death likewise (although the Daleks being silver, forced to use alternate weaponry and the city minature is pretty cool....with the concept of it being booby trapped by various puzzles reused in Pyramid Of Mars and The Five Doctors)

[Somecrazyaussie]

It's a bit of a shame that Pertwee kind of got stuck with sort of 'meh' Dalek stories. Day of the Daleks is probably his best, although the Dalek voices are kind of poor (Although the dvd release fixed it) and it's best for the time paradox element rather than the Daleks themselves. Frontier In Space really isn't much of a Dalek story anyway (and the voices are still kind of meh). Planet's pretty poor despite the concept of an invisible Dalek and Death likewise (although the Daleks being silver, forced to use alternate weaponry and the city minature is pretty cool....with the concept of it being booby trapped by various puzzles reused in Pyramid Of Mars and The Five Doctors)

Day is interesting in that it wasn't intended as a Dalek story. The time travel aspect was the main driving element and the Ogrons were supposed to fulfill the role given to the Daleks later on. However, Dicks and Letts both agreed that the story was slightly lacking the "Wow" factor needed for a season opener. So, Letts made the decision to bring the Daleks back after a 5 year hiatus and requested they be added into the story. Letts always tried to ensure that each series under his watch had a "hook" to help promote the show and capture the audience/boost ratings. Can't deny that fact it was an effective strategy.

Furthermore, the basic time travel story presented here was lifted almost wholesale by Byrne and Claremont for Days Of Future Past. which goes to show how strong of an idea it really was.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Details have been released for the next series of Early Adventures audios over at Big Finish. Not only do we get a story featuring the Second Doctor clashing with the first incarnation of The Master, we also get a very special story with The Second Doctor, Jaime and Zoe meeting the First Doctor, Steven and, in a Big Finish first, Katarina!

Heres the link if anyone is interested https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/katarina-returns

[Nate Grey]

Borusa did say something about "Perpetual bodily regeneration" in Five Doctors.

I haven't heard the Big Finish audio yet (Trial of the Valeyard), but I found somewhere where the Valeyard told the 6th Doctor that the 13 lives limit was a lie perpetuated by Rassilon. The implication I got is that the limit can be lifted, and that since he's one of the people who created regeneration (or THE person, experts help me out on that one ), he wouldn't give said limit to himself.

Funny thing is about that, the second Doctor talking about the rumors that Rasillon was locked and sedated in the tower because of his cruelty by his fellow time lords actually fits in pretty well with the version we've seen....

The Tim Lord's knowledge of their own history is apparently fairly spotty at times so it kind of fits.

Isn't Rassilon the one writing the history? Control freak doesn't even begin to describe him.

[protege]

Day is interesting in that it wasn't intended as a Dalek story. The time travel aspect was the main driving element and the Ogrons were supposed to fulfill the role given to the Daleks later on. However, Dicks and Letts both agreed that the story was slightly lacking the "Wow" factor needed for a season opener. So, Letts made the decision to bring the Daleks back after a 5 year hiatus and requested they be added into the story. Letts always tried to ensure that each series under his watch had a "hook" to help promote the show and capture the audience/boost ratings. Can't deny that fact it was an effective strategy.

Furthermore, the basic time travel story presented here was lifted almost wholesale by Byrne and Claremont for Days Of Future Past. which goes to show how strong of an idea it really was.

Why do you suppose the dranconians never caught on?

[ChrisIII]

They've been name-checked several times in the new show but that's it, although they've of course been in spin-off stuff.


The creature in the Rings of Akhentan sort of resembles a Draconian, but I don't think it's really identified what species it is.

[QuinnFillory]

Here is an interesting article about Martha Jones:

https://www.tvguide.com/news/doctor-...reema-agyeman/

[Derek Metaltron]

Here is an interesting article about Martha Jones:

https://www.tvguide.com/news/doctor-...reema-agyeman/

I find it interesting that Freema and Noel seem to be the only characters in the Tennant era we haven’t had back yet in the Big Finish audios. I would still adore to have a Smith and Jones boxset with those two adventures, or have them helping out Kate Stewart’s UNIT.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Why do you suppose the dranconians never caught on?

Not really sure why they never caught on with the public. They certainly had all the right ingredients. I mean, they were obviously cool enough for them to hold the title of Jon Pertwee's favourite monsters during his tenure. If Frontier In Space had just been dedicated to The Draconians, it might have been a different story. But they were overshadowed by The Master, Ogrons and The Daleks. They simply just weren't allowed to shine in the serial.

They have been name dropped a few times in The New Series, as well as in The Sarah Jane Adventures. They are pretty prominent in Bernice Summerfield media. Otherwise, the only other times they have gone up against the Doctor was in the audio Paper Cuts (6th Doctor) and the novel Catastrophea (3rd Doctor and Jo.)

In many ways, the Draconians are pretty much Doctor Who's answer to The Klingons. Not only is there a slight similarity in design, but both are heavily influenced by Japanese Culture in that they practice feudalism and totalitarianism. Both are also extremely honourable. Although the Draconians are much more articulate in how they conduct themselves.

All they need is for the right writer to come along and dust them off.