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  1. #5641
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    They've released some summaries for the next few episodes. 4 seems particuarly interesting as it'll involve Tesla and Edison.
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  2. #5642
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Kind of curious about the next episode. It does kind of seem like a well-worn Doctor Who plot though-Something sinister going on at a resort.
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  3. #5643
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Any thoughts on the latest episode?
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  4. #5644
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    I watched it last night and it was ... well, let's say pretty bad. Certainly not Fear Her bad but still not something the BBC should be proud of.
    NOT for the message at the end. That was fine. The show has a looooong history of blatant moralising and what-not. Though The Green Death did this particular message much more effectively back in 1973.

    Apparently basic consumer tech can teleport people in and out of the TARDIS now. And the TARDIS doesn't have a self cleaning system.
    Everything about the episode looked cheap and nasty, with the obvious stand out being that cat person's laughably bad costume. Compare that to, say, the Cheetah people from 'Survival' or Meg the werewolf from 'Greatest Show in the Galaxy' - when the show seriously had no money and no CGI. Then the future mechanics! We know they're in the future because they have green hair ... for no apparent reason.
    The sets, especially the resort foyer, looked like it was done in fifteen minutes. The holographic walls were done better by TNG than what we saw in this episode.
    I also chuckled at how unconvincing the explosion at the end looked.

    The solution was ridiculous - oh, this virus could make what we need? How convenient!
    And did the Doctor really leave those people to die at the end?

    Far too many characters and we ended up not caring for a single one of them.

    No original ideas, it just seemed to be a half-assed mash-up of The Leisure Hive , The Mysterious Planet , The Green Death, and The Curse of Fenric with a dash of Paradise Towers.

    Oh. 'Possible future'. 'The future is not set'. I'm pretty sure that's not how time travel works in Doctor Who as established in many, many previous stories. You know, the entire 'set points' thing that has literally been the plot point of many episodes?

    And why was there a fire in a tunnel where there was no oxygen?
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  5. #5645
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    Unfortunately it might be one of the negatively preachy episodes we have had to date. There was honestly no need to have the planet turn out to be Earth and apparently ignore the fact that we know Earth thrives for centuries after the modern era and try to wrap it up by implying it is a possible future - which in the canon of the show doesn’t especially make much sense. The Dregs were well designed but I was feeling like the episode was shifting from one random plot line to another. ‘Oh yeah I am your estranged daughter btw and I wanna blow everything up because you never called me and oh right you’re alive guess we’ll just die off screen now we’ll always have thumb sucking Ryan!’

    I am really hoping that the next episode is a lot better. Jodie’s era really needs a solid positive relationship with a male historical figure already so here’s hoping Nikola Tesla is that.

  6. #5646
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    The show has a looooong history of blatant moralising and what-not. Though The Green Death did this particular message much more effectively back in 1973.
    See thatís the thing, Doctor Who used to be far more subtle about moralising and giving a positive message than it is now, like it doesnít trust the audience to get it unless they yell it out - thatís guy is a Trump rip off, climate change is a thing etc. Rosa feels like the one time they did it and it worked out fine. Every other attempt has come across as a tad too much.

  7. #5647
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Metaltron View Post
    See that’s the thing, Doctor Who used to be far more subtle about moralising and giving a positive message than it is now, l
    Seriously, it didn't. Classic Who, especially, was extremely blatant about getting a message across.
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  8. #5648
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Seriously, it didn't. Classic Who, especially, was extremely blatant about getting a message across.
    Really? Maybe it’s the society we live in now that makes us more tired of it constantly being brought up every five seconds in things we perceive often as escapism.

    ...that or I am getting old and grumpy.

  9. #5649
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    The Sun Makers, for example, was about as blatant as you could be short of Tom Baker narrating the actual message while the episode played in the background.
    The Green Death had the Doctor literally saying words to the effect of "look after your damn planet"

    There are so many examples of it in classic Who.
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  10. #5650
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Metaltron View Post
    Really? Maybe it’s the society we live in now that makes us more tired of it constantly being brought up every five seconds in things we perceive often as escapism.

    ...that or I am getting old and grumpy.
    We always view our past with rose colored glasses. It's just part of life unfortunately.

  11. #5651
    Extraordinary Member Deathstroke's Avatar
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    This episode was far too heavy handed in it's preachiness for my liking.
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  12. #5652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathstroke View Post
    This episode was far too heavy handed in it's preachiness for my liking.
    The preachiness, while lazy in the extreme, isn't even the issue for me with the episode. Yeah, I'd like it if a writer could at least attempt to come up with a metaphor for their message that fits the universe, but especially with an issue like climate change, I'm not actually that bothered by it.

    The problem is that the rest of the episode was absolutely awful as well. The Doctor wasn't just useless, she was an active hindrance. The joke with her using her oxygen talking too much might have been funny if she was actually saying anything meaningful, but since it was just pointless audio spam for most of the episode it fell flat. There was no resolution, they simply fled. Lady Barff completely took me out of the episode. I kept waiting for Lone Star to show up.

    And the only positives were one good zinger from Whittaker (the crayon and spam line), a couple of quick quips from Graham and the monster design (which it actually looks like they filched whole cloth from another source the same way they did the Mog makeup).

    It's not the worst episode since the revival, but it's close. Love and Monsters and Fear Her are about the only episodes I'd rate as bigger flops.

    Seriously, why even cast an actress as talented as Jodie Whittaker if you're just going to write the Doctor as a grinning idiot with no depth or personality? I keep waiting for her to get impatient, or angry, or depressed or something that will give the character even the smallest amount of bite and let Jodie flex her chops. The three companions are proving to be a mistake as well. It's not even that there isn't time to flesh them out, it's that the writers just don't bother. Graham has been gold on a few occasions, but Ryan and Yaz are non-characters that just drag down their scenes. Yaz is especially disappointing because the writers not only don't seem to have anything for the character to do, but they don't seem to care that they don't have anything for the character to do. At least they try with Ryan every other episode or so, though it always seems to fall flat.

    I got my hopes up after the opening two parter proved to actually be fun, but this was an absolute buzz killer. I find it deeply sad that apparently Chris Chibnall's vision for this show is for it to be lifeless and boring.

  13. #5653
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    We did see her get a bit angry/depressed when she checked out Gallifrey and got the Master's hologram last episode.
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  14. #5654
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    With the oxygen thing I'm surprised that the Doctor's respiratory bypass system wasn't brought up.
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  15. #5655
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Yeah, the messaging didn't bother me and I agree it's nothing new (I mean, RTD was really big on critiquing social media and phone use, for example), but I've also grown to dislike future "trapped in a base" storylines. I used to look forward to episodes set in the future, but this reminded me too much of even last season's hospital ship episode, which itself was a pretty blah episode. And the cliche of the large cast of supporting characters slowly dwindling down reminded me of "Voyage of the Damned," which itself wasn't that great but at least had much better pacing and direction than this episode.

    Frankly, the preachiness might have been the best part of the episode, because it would be the only part that had any direction or purpose. An episode should at least give us that much.

    The father and son pair (who looks like he's cosplaying as Midoriya from My Hero Academia) perhaps did the least for me, as they seemed more non-chalant or even more ignorant of the supposed extreme dangers around them than anyone. And I groaned at the mother/daughter revelation.

    (Oh, I get it, the theme of the episode is FAMILY! Between the doomed elder couple and Ryan declaring Team TARDIS was his family I ... actually don't care about this theme, at least the way the episode presented it)

    Lastly, Hyph3n is a mog. Y'know, a half-man, half-dog. She's her own best friend!
    Last edited by Cyke; 01-14-2020 at 10:30 AM.

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